Inquisitor Wall Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I have been playing Guild for most of this year, focused on Nellie and Hoffman and really want to like the Brutal Emissary, but he just does not seem worth his points for what he does. Whenever I am list building I run into and peace keeper or an executioner are both better if I am looking for a beater, and Francisco is better if I am looking for a support piece. The only benefit I can see is that the emissary is a construct with Hoffman and can be looped, but none of his stats are really higher than other models that can be looped in. What am I missing, other than the fact that he is pretty cool looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Don't think you missed anything except Hoffman can now make any guild model a construct with his cyborg thing so not even that is unique for the emissary. It's a glorified taxi for 10ss. If you have a model you really want to pop up somehwhere near a marker or after two emissary moves you can make that happen, especially with Hoffman. You can also take the attacks of buried models so you could get three Howard Langston attacks with automatic kill triggers by attaching that guild construct only upgrade to the emissary and then burying Langston. Three auto kill attacks are sure to make them chuck a few cards at least and after that you unbury Langston to try and hit rams to really put the strain on them. The emissary is basically a pretty expensive gimmick that looks really cool and is hard to transport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im_open_to_suggestions Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Inquisitor Wall said: I have been playing Guild for most of this year, focused on Nellie and Hoffman and really want to like the Brutal Emissary, but he just does not seem worth his points for what he does. Whenever I am list building I run into and peace keeper or an executioner are both better if I am looking for a beater, and Francisco is better if I am looking for a support piece. The only benefit I can see is that the emissary is a construct with Hoffman and can be looped, but none of his stats are really higher than other models that can be looped in. What am I missing, other than the fact that he is pretty cool looking? I feel the big guy is really master dependent. haven't found a place for him in Nellie as there are far superior beaters for her to take and manipulate. The one master I take him with religiously is McCabe. The conflux gives you a free upgrade and another zero to pass about the upgrades so gives you another potential 8 inches of push. A positive flip to his bury attack is also a nice addition. With the upgrades McCabe has access to makes the emissary a lot more versatile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerHarris Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Agree with the previous post. McCabe loves the Emissary. Other than him I really struggle to find a place for it. Guild have so many better models at that SS cost... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 It's a single donor for Hoffman's missing stats, so you can loop the pair of them and then go about your business. Hoffman can make it both fast and nimble, and given it's the Wk6 beater (Grimwell isn't as durable) who can carry its own, possibly companioning, backup with it, it's a melee alpha strike package. And there's the various flavors of no-way-that's-legal from burying and copying friendlies (what's 'once per turn [per model]' mean to me?... ). It does seem to draw fire and die early every time, but I'm not sure whether to chalk that up to my overextending it, its imposing stompybot presence, or my talking up the flavor of the week I'm about to inflict with it. That being said, it feels like I haven't fielded it in a month. Stupid side-trip into the ways of Lucius. It only shines with masters that can give it extra AP on its own activation. McCabe and nimble count for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias79 Posted October 15, 2017 Report Share Posted October 15, 2017 I still need to try it with Perdita. Since it isn't randomized when shooting in to a melee, and with it's huge base, you can run it in to the middle of a group, chain activate some of the shooters and target the Emissary to do some nasty damage to everything engaged with it. Otherwise, I've used it a lot with McCabe, who loves having an extra upgrade to throw around, and a little with Hoffman, where the plus flips to attack on powerlooped models is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 @Ozymandias79 Can't you do exactly the same amount of damage without the emissary being in the way? What it will likely lead to is you not getting to decide which enemy you will hit since you will still randomize between the enemy models so you might end up wounding three models instead of completely killing one or two of them with the same amount of attacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im_open_to_suggestions Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ludvig said: @Ozymandias79 Can't you do exactly the same amount of damage without the emissary being in the way? What it will likely lead to is you not getting to decide which enemy you will hit since you will still randomize between the enemy models so you might end up wounding three models instead of completely killing one or two of them with the same amount of attacks. suppose it could add a few inches onto the range or let you shoot round corners. personally I would prefer using frank for this with the diestro upgrade for this task to also put them onto negative flips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 I've had trouble making diestro work on Franc. I prefer watchers for extending ranges and ignoring cover. I miss the good old days when Perdita could carry diestro. It made a lot more sense to put it on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazza92 Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 With Perdita is completely useful... I try he several time and he always dies without do nothing...the upgrade when in list with Dita is very bad... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Diestro on the Emissary is a fun trick in Lucius Lists (requires tc warrior and abuela). I might run that one again at some point. I often will use the Emissary with Nellie if I want to build a list that really utilizes the taxi. I'll put curfew on the Emissary, and transport the model I want to alpha strike in the emissary, and make both the emissary and the model I'm alphaing with fast. Sometimes I will also give the model I'm dropping off el mayor. Then I make the emissary a last activation. I slow anything that is left on my opponent's side, then pop out my alpha machine (I've done Sam Hopkins, bishop, papa Loco, grimwell to stake claims, grimwell to lobotomize, hell even grimwell to ply would work) I would like to try Phiona for a copy of the viks bomb. I'm sure there are others which would also entertain. Outside of Nellie, I've done some similar things with hoffman, perdita, or lucius. I've run a Emissary Hoffman list that involved burying the FK specialist with a death marhall and then giving the emissary plus flips from papa so he could blast people with a bunch of attacks from his own attack and hoffman machine puppeting him. With hoff I almost always give him extra armor. I've never made him work with Sonnia, though I have certainly considered it. I haven't run him with LJ in a while, as the other post says there are better ways to get LJ to the front. His bury has certainly helped me in games on both the offensive and defensive side. I anticipate that I will continue to use him in the future. I've found I tend to rate him higher than most of the other posters on this forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 @4thstringer You do tend to come at things sideways, I would love to come play at your club some time. It's nice to not have this place be a total echo chamber as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias79 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/15/2017 at 11:39 PM, Ludvig said: @Ozymandias79 Can't you do exactly the same amount of damage without the emissary being in the way? What it will likely lead to is you not getting to decide which enemy you will hit since you will still randomize between the enemy models so you might end up wounding three models instead of completely killing one or two of them with the same amount of attacks. I can shoot around corners this way. I can also chain activate both Santiago and Perdita using the Emissary's special chain activation. Plus, he's harder to put down than Franc. I've stopped putting diestro on Franc, it makes him an even bigger target. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/16/2017 at 1:28 PM, Ludvig said: @4thstringer You do tend to come at things sideways, I would love to come play at your club some time. It's nice to not have this place be a total echo chamber as well. Frederick, MD, USA is always waiting. I honestly haven't been signing on to the forums as much recently as I was really disappointed at how little people seemed to want to experiment with the new upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: I honestly haven't been signing on to the forums as much recently as I was really disappointed at how little people seemed to want to experiment with the new upgrades. Which ones for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Ozymandias79 said: I can shoot around corners this way. I can also chain activate both Santiago and Perdita using the Emissary's special chain activation. Plus, he's harder to put down than Franc. I've stopped putting diestro on Franc, it makes him an even bigger target. I agree about Francisco but you can't have Diestro on the emissary anyway so you might as well put Francisco in there without it and put up his to melee and have much the same effect with an entire model less? Have you actually used the double-chain btw? Seems like it would usually come so late in the game. 2 hours ago, 4thstringer said: Frederick, MD, USA is always waiting. I honestly haven't been signing on to the forums as much recently as I was really disappointed at how little people seemed to want to experiment with the new upgrades. If I'm ever on the right continent again I will try to get in touch. It's felt rather slow here the last couple of weeks. I wouldn't mind discussing their uses, people seemed awfully quick to dismiss or laud them but I haven' seen much since the initial threads. I wouldn't mind joining a "can't wait to try - upgrade edition". Playwise it's been slow for me lately and I've actually cheated on my beloved guild for ressers and neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Tris said: Which ones for example? Off the top of my head the less lauded ones like sonnias summon, either of nellies, lucius' s condescension, ljs coffin, or dougies non-beasts one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skoatz Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Ludvig said: I agree about Francisco but you can't have Diestro on the emissary anyway so you might as well put Francisco in there without it and put up his to melee and have much the same effect with an entire model less? Have you actually used the double-chain btw? Seems like it would usually come so late in the game. The only way to get Diestro on Brutal Emissary (as far as I'm aware) is to run Lucius in guild with a Terracotta Warrior and Abuela. Brutal Emissary starts with a 1-3 soulstone upgrade. Abuela gives Brutal Emissary the Family characteristic and then the Terracotta Warrior changes the upgrade on Brutal Emissary to Diestro. But then you wouldn't be running BE with Perdita and I don't think getting the Diestro upgrade on BE at the cost of 13-15 additional soulstones (Terracotta Warrior, Abuela, and potential 1-2 soulstone cost to switch the upgrade) is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias79 Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Ludvig said: I agree about Francisco but you can't have Diestro on the emissary anyway so you might as well put Francisco in there without it and put up his to melee and have much the same effect with an entire model less? Have you actually used the double-chain btw? Seems like it would usually come so late in the game. Like I said, I haven't tried this. I just don't use Diestro on Franc anymore as he's already target #1. This way, I can get a similar effect on a much sturdier model (df 6, Armor +1, HtK), and the large base gives me a little extra range and more opportunity to tie up models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 4 hours ago, 4thstringer said: Off the top of my head the less lauded ones like sonnias summon, either of nellies, lucius' s condescension, ljs coffin, or dougies non-beasts one. Lady J with coffin was getting a trial run in my meta (she kept chucking my Armor +2 models into it in lieu of dealing with them the usual way) but after a doubleheader beatdown, she got shelved for awhile. Been running Lucius, but ran out of 'stones to try Condescending and wasn't really bringing the stat 7 models to benefit from it anyhow. And after that I tried learning Nellie again...and I thought Hoffman was complicated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakuriel Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I like using my emissary, but tend to take him mostly with Lucius for the amusing backstab charges, though I might take him with Nellie once I get the new conflux. For my personal amusement, I like to bury Lucius with a marshal and What lackeys are for my emissary into annoying positions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
im_open_to_suggestions Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 9 hours ago, 4thstringer said: Off the top of my head the less lauded ones like sonnias summon, either of nellies, lucius' s condescension, ljs coffin, or dougies non-beasts one. have to admit I LOVE Dougies non beast upgrade. playing against sommer it gave me a huge advantage eating corpses for cards after being bigger hatted. makes search the ruins pretty easy as well, and setting up dig their graves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 16 hours ago, 4thstringer said: Off the top of my head the less lauded ones like sonnias summon, either of nellies, lucius' s condescension, ljs coffin, or dougies non-beasts one. Ah, get it - yeah, I mean, Nellies upgrades just can't compete with what she already has (though changing schemes could at least be interesting), Lucius' and Douglas' upgrades bith have potential but are probably outshined by their other one - I think time will see more use of them. Sonnias I don't see as a "summon" upgrade, but the chain activation seems like it could be handy - but what's the crew it'll shine with? Quite a lot of the Witch Hunters seem.... meh? But that's maybe something worth trying to fit in her thematic crew, it's in an interesting place. Lady Js coffin saw imo quite some discussion, as in what limited to take with her - also, it seems pretty straightforward, so hard to write a lot about it Time will tell and people will test more and more, but some things are probably just not worth it and you can see that on a first glance (although Guild is in a pretty sweet spot considering wave 5 stuff, nothing really bad here^^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias79 Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Sonnia’s new chain activation is pretty darn good. It means you can run in a stalker or the purifying flame in and start blasting off it before your opponent can react, or you can even assemble Sammael and set them on fire with Sonnia or a Witchling, then chain activate into him to rapid fire while ignoring LOS. Doesn’t fix him, but makes him more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall78 Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Do I have it correct that when you use Sonnias new skill to summon her totem that it sacrifices the one in play therefore it blows up doing area damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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