is this a guild or nb jank?

[4thstringer]

Here's the idea.  Lucius with 2 lawyers, 3 changelings, a doppelganger and an emissary with the generic to provide some plus flips.  Fill out the crew with scheme runners or beaters? And play it in guild or nb?

[Ludvig]

I would want  couple of decent attacks to copy but you're already at 42ss so not too much swing there.

In nvb you could take an illuminated I guess. They are nice since you can take the brilliance shot with the illuminated and the rest of the models can hopefully copy the attack. A trapper would also be fun for a plusflip bonanza.

[trikk]

Trapper with Changelings is pretty good on some boards

[4thstringer]

I've run trappers and changelings.  Tbh I just want to find a way to make lawyers worth using.   They got me into the game and I hate their lack of effectiveness

[ArcticPangolin]

I take it you've tried Fees on a friendly beater model with Black Blood, native or otherwise?

[4thstringer]

2 hours ago, ArcticPangolin said:

I take it you've tried Fees on a friendly beater model with Black Blood, native or otherwise?

Yeah.   It was ok,  but I didn't it.   Nb with illuminated was my fave for that because of their heal. 

[Ludvig]

They could put htw on Lady J? She likes independent models and can perhaps drag them with her into ml so they can do q focusedbattack to paralyze. Pretty far from the original list but you know

[4thstringer]

Its cool.  The month of the lawyer is on.

[admiralvorkraft]

Lucius handing them focused attacks is good enough reason I've found. Plus it's a damaging cast in Guild that targets willpower so it patches a lot of holes in the toolkit.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Lucius handing them focused attacks is good enough reason I've found. Plus it's a damaging cast in Guild that targets willpower so it patches a lot of holes in the toolkit.

But the damage track... I'm categorically against including anything without min damage three in guild lists.  

[4thstringer]

My game against misaki with this list tonight really put a damper on my "I want to make lawyers work." I actually did ok on the back of the emissary, doppelganger and changelings but they lawyers werent really a part of it.  One got shot off the table by a samauri turn one.   The second survived, but a warden, deathmarshal, witchling stalker, pistolero, or two hounds andwould have been more effective.

Part of the problem is the fees condition.   The fact is, especially since it doesnt effect masters, people use way fewer actions for damaging attacks than ever before.   There is a much bigger focus on making the attacks you do make count.  And since they have to hit you for it to be effective,  higher impact attacks mean fewer actually impactful connections.   

Finally condition removal is more common than ever.  

So what we are left with is the objection attack, which does 2 damage and somtimes slows or paralyze.  You wouldnt believe how many models you will face that will be immune to whichever of those you hit.  See also the above condition removal.

 

Their defensive ability is less useful than ever too.  More model attack at plus flips than ever.  Its so hard for them to actually get opponents on negatives, and its super expensive to do so.

They are right now about the bottom of my pile.  Im just not seeing it.

[Ludvig]

Sounds like we have reached the same conclusions about them. They're basically a very expensive scheme runner that does worse than most 4-5ss options (at least in neverborn, arcanists and ressers) at that job.

The htw also has a poor timing, it should have been until this models next activation or something because you don't want models to be survivable for the last two actions of a turn. Htw matters when the enemy wins initiative and lays into your master with some death star unit, for that you need to already have it up because I'm not using my first turn to a lawyer's activation if my master is in ml with a 13ss threat.

 

[Myyrä]

Yeah, Lawyers have also been at the bottom of my pile ever since Lucius started giving to Horror duels himself, and they weren't all that high even before that.

[4thstringer]

The plus still fails a frightening account of the time,  on top of being a rj magnet.

[Ludvig]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

The plus still fails a frightening account of the time,  on top of being a rj magnet.

Or a bj magnet.

[4thstringer]

Just now, Ludvig said:

Or a bj magnet.

That's what I meant.   Oops

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, 4thstringer said:

That's what I meant.   Oops

The red joker on a horror duel also kind of sucks. Black is worse though. 

[4thstringer]

last night I kept rjing blink duels.   It was brutal.

[Ludvig]

They should do a format where you only had a deck of 26 red and 26 black jokers

[Gnomezilla]

4 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

They should do a format where you only had a deck of 26 red and 26 black jokers

*eyeballs raw stats*

The gap has closed somewhat, but that does play to our traditional strengths... 

[Myyrä]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

They should do a format where you only had a deck of 26 red and 26 black jokers

Easy enough to try if you want to. Just count all the red cards as red jokers and black cards as black jokers.

[Ludvig]

This may need to become an event. I'll have to try it with someone first. Handing out negative flips on damage would become really strong so lawyers might work in that

Raw stats would become really important and firing into cover might not be that bad if your opponent can't cheat anyway.

[Gnomezilla]

You'd have to disallow Pact and December's Pawn. 

[Ludvig]

20 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

You'd have to disallow Pact and December's Pawn. 

Hahaha! I'm sure it would be pretty unplayable either way. I'm aure there are lots of consequences I'm missing.

[Adran]

Cards in hand are largely useless. You can never cheat anything. You just want to try and get as many Black jokers into hand as possible. Unless you discard for effects