Lucius - New Player Seeking Advice

[facie]

I'm brand new at Malifaux (learned at Origins) and am thinking about building around Lucius.  After the recent errata, can folks with more experience a solid 50ss build?  

I'm not asking folks to do my work for me, but the choices in this game are sort of overwhelming for a new player!  I need some focus from folks who have been playing for a bit!  

Thanks!

[solkan]

You choose your crew after discovering what your opponent's faction is, and what the scheme and strategy pool is.  You're not supposed to go "I lost because my crew couldn't deal with the schemes I had available."

I'm afraid you're asking for a 50SS list without knowing what it's going to be designed to work for.

The best thing you can do as a new player is commit to losing a dozen games, picking models that you want to try out just to see what they do.  Borrow models, or proxy models with printed out/photocopied cards, and see what you like.  Or, if you can stand the interface and you've got the books for reference, give playing a game on Vassal a try.

You're feeling overwhelmed by choices that you don't have any experience making.  So go out there and get that experience.   

[Clockwork_Fish]

If you're looking for general advice on what goes well with new Lucius, I can make some recommendations.

The Scribe, Queeg and a Witchling Thrall or two (who sadly don't have a regular release date yet ) are what I usually build around.  Queeg helps squeeze the last drop of goodness out of your minions, the Thralls are hard hitting and hardy minions, who will benefit from pretty much everything Lucius and Queeg do.  The Scribe just keeps people alive.

The rest can be filled to taste.  I'm fond of Changelings and Orderlies (from the two player starter box).  Reporters, Watchers Hunters and Austringers are also pretty good.  If you're thinking of picking up a second master, Hoffman's box offers Lucius a LOT.

I still need to try Guard-heavy Lucius, probably with Allison Dade for extra oomph. 

[facie]

33 minutes ago, solkan said:

You choose your crew after discovering what your opponent's faction is, and what the scheme and strategy pool is.  You're not supposed to go "I lost because my crew couldn't deal with the schemes I had available."

I'm afraid you're asking for a 50SS list without knowing what it's going to be designed to work for.

The best thing you can do as a new player is commit to losing a dozen games, picking models that you want to try out just to see what they do.  Borrow models, or proxy models with printed out/photocopied cards, and see what you like.  Or, if you can stand the interface and you've got the books for reference, give playing a game on Vassal a try.

You're feeling overwhelmed by choices that you don't have any experience making.  So go out there and get that experience.   

Totally understand your point.  I suppose I'm asking for a good balanced initial list.  I fully realize there is no "uber list" in this game.  

 

 

[Myyrä]

Do you have any minis already or will you be purchasing everything? Is there a budjet?

[facie]

38 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Do you have any minis already or will you be purchasing everything? Is there a budjet?

Oh, I guess I should have said that.  I'm purchasing everything.  So far all I have is the 2 player starter kit and the Sonnia crew box.  

[4thstringer]

Then the Hoffman box will go a long way for your cost.   4 really useful minions in that box.

[Myyrä]

2 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Then the Hoffman box will go a long way for your cost.   4 really useful minions in that box.

I'm not sure. For the same price you could get Allison Dade, Queek and a box of Wardens for example. That would make for a pretty decent list methinks. They also have more synergies with Lucius' box set (i.e. Dashel).

[4thstringer]

Just now, Myyrä said:

I'm not sure. For the same price you could get Allison Dade, Queek and a box of Wardens for example. That would make for a pretty decent list methinks.

Ill admit,  guardians are a personal favorite of mine.   I haven't been able to make queeg work,  but that's more on me than queeg I think

[Myyrä]

Just now, 4thstringer said:

Ill admit,  guardians are a personal favorite of mine.   I haven't been able to make queeg work,  but that's more on me than queeg I think

Haven't tried Queek with Lucius, but was really impressed with him when I finally got him painted and on the table with Nellie.

[Gnomezilla]

I thought Nellie's box was the new must-have for the fresh-faced Guild recruit--useable schemers and a splendid heavy hitter. Not to say Hoffman's box is bad for Lucius, but two hunters' worth of damage track won't compare to a Phiona on the rampage.

However you decide to enhance it, Lucius' crew box is very weak at dealing damage and needs some offensive power.

Cards you'll need to be sure you have (most available at wargamevault print-on-demand):

Lucius (January 2017 errata)--look for Devil's Deal only costing 2 damage

The Scribe (January 2017 errata)--look for "The Secretary's Eyes and Ears" to exist

Captain Dashel: Arrest Him upgrade, not print-on-demand yet but anyone with Generalist Upgrade Deck Two has a copy and may be willing simply to trade you one

Master Queeg: Promises upgrade

[facie]

22 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

I thought Nellie's box was the new must-have for the fresh-faced Guild recruit--useable schemers and a splendid heavy hitter. Not to say Hoffman's box is bad for Lucius, but two hunters' worth of damage track won't compare to a Phiona on the rampage.

However you decide to enhance it, Lucius' crew box is very weak at dealing damage and needs some offensive power.

Cards you'll need to be sure you have (most available at wargamevault print-on-demand):

Lucius (January 2017 errata)--look for Devil's Deal only costing 2 damage

The Scribe (January 2017 errata)--look for "The Secretary's Eyes and Ears" to exist

Captain Dashel: Arrest Him upgrade, not print-on-demand yet but anyone with Generalist Upgrade Deck Two has a copy and may be willing simply to trade you one

Master Queeg: Promises upgrade

Thanks!  I'm checking into all of these. 

 

[jerhien]

Witchling Thralls are amazing work-horse models with Lucius and I can't recommend  them enough. 

 

Daschel  still feels like a bit of a trap, but Nellies box and Perditas won't let you down while you're in Guild. Hoffman's box, like said above, will provide you with Hunters. 

[moosenhiem]

I played lucius in a league for awhile and after about 2 weeks of getting my teeth kicked in I started getting smart with him.  He is great with schemes and strategies that want lots of scheme markers, but with the right crew he can do some work... or his minions can do work.

 I almost always take a doppleganger because if ill omens with him, plus she is a great scheme runner and even proxy beater depending on the situation.  If the schemes and strats are more killy consider throwing in some changelings because they can copy attacks (at MI/Sh/Ca 4) which is additional stuff. It doesn't sound that good until you consider putting them next to a hunter or peacekeeper who has a 10" slow they can just fire off (and and Sh 4 who cares about cover, just volume of attacks things).  

Within guild, I think riflemen are a trap, but austringers are always amazing, put one in every crew.  Since you already have Sonnia, Witchling thralls would be great whenever the come out.  Those models pair well with Lucius due to automatically passing horror duels (i.e. free AP even on black jokers) and Sonnia (an impossible to wound beater in your face with disrupt magic giving masters negatives to cast).  He also likes Santiago as a soul stone battery who he can punch, which there is a previous post on.  And any beater model, judge, ryle, phiona etc, is never a bad choice for him.

[Vilicate]

Great Models for Lucius:

Scribe

Doppleganger

Witchling Thrall

Executioner (getting to get in a charge with him via his 0 upgrade off activation is great!)

Austringer

 

You can run a Guardsman heavy list (I often do), and if so you're definitely going to want to take Captain Dashel.  I like combining him with Riflemen and Mounted Guard, so while Lucius walks around giving orders, the Riflemen are getting a bunch of plus flips to get extra shots off.  I often will activate Dashel first, walk him so that he counts for a Guardsmen activated for the riflemen, and then companion one of them to get the immediate attack with free focus, then focus again for when Lucius makes him attack later in the turn.

 

Basically though, you want to take a bunch of minions with him.  I'd recommend taking at least one good beater in the crew as well, because there's some situations where you just need a tough, hitty model to get the job done.

 

Here's an example of a list that I used twice in a recent event, to great success.

Lucius w/ Secret Assets, Legaleese and Surprisingly Loyal; 4ss Cache

Captain Dashel w/ Arrest Him!

Guild Rifleman

Guild Rifleman

Guild Austringer

Doppleganger

Peacekeeper w/ Debt to the Guild

Scribe

 

Granted, this list works best in schemes were a lot of stuff has to die, but I've got a couple models that make scheme-running very easy; the Austringer and Dopple easily put out two scheme markers, engaged or not.  Plus Lucius can make them do it again if I have to.  I will say this though; make your list flexible.  Have a core of models that you take every time and customize it to the missions, as fixed lists aren't always the best in every situation; this game specifically lets you tailor lists every time you play, so use that to your advantage.

 

Good luck!  Lucius is a great master (and my favorite in the game).

[Vilicate]

As an addendum, I feel like I should also mention that the Terracotta Warrior is also very good with Lucius, but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet.

[InvokeChaos]

Terracotta Warrior, Doppleganger, Burt Jebsen and performers are great out of faction picks.

Terracotta let's you trade out upgrades and puts a really good defensive condition on your enforcer/minion models. I like to take Surprisingly Loyal and then swap it out for Secret Assets with the Terracotta Warrior.

Doppleganger gives initiative boosting and can copy actions.

Burt Jebsen is just a really solid model that can do a ton of work.

Performers are fantastic models with Lucius as anti-schemers and helping with positioning. I love them with Phiona Gage dropping scheme markers everywhere.

Speaking of... I really really like Phiona Gage from the Nellie box with him. Especially with Transparency upgrade (let's her drop scheme markers on attack). Field Reporters aren't bad with him either.

Also you will want to get three copies of Debt to the Guild because it's a ridiculous upgrade

[Vorschlag]

Guild hounds - Lucius can "obey" their 1pt charge (scheme marker dependent) if the set up is in place he can even push them out of engagement then have them charge (with possible + flips)

Mounted guard - good df buff, interesting positioning trick and unless I read it wrong you could use their trigger to chain activate after "obey" from Lucius.

Pathfinders good partner/replacement models for rifleman especially with Dashel.

Changelings - because copying a pathfinders rifle or an executioners ml is a thing.

Graves + changelings everyone gets shown the door for high mobility.

Queeg for scheme heavy filth or pounce set ups + trap summoning/relocation.

Wardens - reasonable damage, + to queeg/Lucius terror tests, armour

Riflemen still an option when you want raw damage down specific firing lanes.

Guild sergeant - buffing unit, possibly only worth taking in guardsmen heavy crews.

Doppelganger useful again stealing high value actions and occasionally burning your hand for initiative.

Terracotta soldiers - curfew cycling or badge of office cycling.

Candy -possibly not worth buying a whole box for but in some situations she's amazing.

Beckoners sadly I rarely find them useful but if you really need that lure and extra position control.

Austringers - great when you need to hit someone with a bird - potential to burn your opponents hand

 

Non guard/mimics

Hoffman box- as suggested above good strong melee minions who Lucius will love.

Nellie box - haven't looked myself but others froth at the mouth.

Justice box - + flips on pine box ( I assume) and the judge.

Sonnia box - witchlings for + ml flips from Lucius and Devils deal explosions

Plus aparently Samuel + doppelganger

Thrall when available are apparently a good thing

Executioner - his main issue was speed Lucius fixes this.

Reporter henchman/enforcer woman - aparently likes guardsmen.

 

[PanzerHarris]

I have tried 2 Riflemen with Dashel and Queeg. Queeg Walks twice, making each Rifleman take Focus for a 0 from Dashel, then when they activate they take a Focussed shot, 0 for Focus off Dashel, then take another Focussed shot. And Queeg is a Guardsman so will give them an extra Ram as he's activated.

Dashel may well be worthwhile now, and I'm a big Queeg fan. Rifleman are very cheap for what they can do.

Expensive and situational, but it can catch out an opponent when that group holds a flank and Queeg's Promises bubble covers a beater in the middle.

[grrrfranky]

A crew that I saw at ITC (Tim Brown was using it) and have since run a couple of times.

Lucius, Scribe, two executioners, two witchling thralls, and two field reporters. You can get your four beaters up pretty quickly, and if your opponent isn't expecting it could conceivably charge with both executioners turn one. It's really good fun, and a super aggressive crew which is not what people expect from Lucius.