If not Roosters..

[Obeisance]

So I've been dabbling with Malifaux on and off for a while now, in small bursts. But only recently, did I quit Warmachine and take on the game as my focus. I decided all the Resurrectionist masters were kinda boring and Gremlins looked fun, so I picked them up. Kinda went back and forth a while. Gonna stick to Gremlins and see how it pans out. 

Assembled my Rooster Riders and played two games with them. Was amazed by the speed and fragility. Then they lost Reckless.. and they seem mediocre after another game.

I spent a bunch of yesterday listening to Alexander Schmid's Youtube- he mentions that if you're used to playing something, play something else and come back to it so the contrast is forgotten. Explore other options.

But the question is what? What is great at scheme running for Gremlins? I want something super fast that can start scoring backline schemes ASAP.

a] 2 Bayous. More bodies. One shot Drunk and Reckless (without damage reduction). With or without Lenny tossing them up the board. At 3ss each they're probably the best option.

b] Iron Skeeters. They're walk 6 and can make another model move with them/fast. They're kinda suit dependent, though, which seems iffy. Kinda expensive at 6ss.

c] Swine Cursed. When they come out I'll be running 2-4 of them with Wong. Huge damage dealers, regenerating reckless. Probably too expensive to scheme run at 7ss.

d] Fingers. He's 10ss, but he's reckless, walk 6, super mobile, chatty and has Don't Mind Me. He's actually kind of amazing but he's expensive and I have to buy Brewmaster to get him.

e] Lightning Bugs. Walk 5, Reckless and they get an extra action. 5ss isn't terrible. Fairly durable. Might be a solid option.

Ideas?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Fingers is not comparatively expensive. How many stones were you going to spend on scheme runners? If you were going to spend 10+ on two 5 stone models then fingers is a worthwhile investment.

[Obeisance]

I feel like Fingers could run most schemes virtually solo. But eggs, basket?

Closer look at Fingers..

DF/WP 6, decent hp and cg8. He's also ht1 which is situationally amazing.

Squeal, Reckless, Don't Mind Me, Chatty. Can turn enemy scheme markers into yours.

If he can target himself with Take A Swig he can also heal himself. Being a Henchman he can also use Soulstones.

Problem is, he has zero damage output and is 10ss... but he seems crazy good at schemes/scheme prevention.

...

Upgrades.

Hide In the Mud - Soft cover would make him even harder to remove.

Liquid Bravery - He doesn't have a zero. Would be fairly useful here but it'd limit his positioning.

Stilts - Just in case he gets charged. Still has Squeal, though. Probably Hide in the Mud or nothing, I think.

...

Why am I talking myself into buying Brewmaster's box? lol

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

Merris: Walk 5, fly, reckless, 0 action "discard a card and place a scheme marker". I have to buy her ?

 

Raphael: walk 5, very durable, very good gun to kill other scheme runners. A solo-piece

[wizuriel]

Merris and Trixie can usually pretty easily solo most schemes that require markers. 

Raphael and Burt are also really good solo pieces (would be more like using rooster riders as scheme runners as they can also hurt other models).

Fingers is amazing, but he is expensive and usually need to design a list around him. With the right schemes though he can be brutal to play against. 

[spooky_squirrel]

No damage on Fingers means it is easier to keep him focused on scheme running. With my Arcanist/10T experience, his pricing doesn't seem very high--but I'm not coming in from the perspective of reckless 3 stone runners, my first crew was Brewmaster (10T leaning, especially after I started using the Dawn Serpent), with Ironsides as my second--because of how much work he gets done.

[Dogmantra]

The Pigapult doesn't really run schemes on its own but combined with Bayou Gremlins or maybe Bugs it's really good - just chuck your models where they need to be and next turn have them interact.

Piglets are also pretty good at running any of the distract type schemes because they can charge 8" in as a (1) then spend their second AP to interact.

 

The First Mate is also pretty good - perhaps I've just been infatuated with the model, but I find he's a good compromise between the extreme scheme focus of Fingers, the mobility of Merris and the damage & utility of a third option.

[Tris]

8 hours ago, Obeisance said:

c] Swine Cursed. When they come out I'll be running 2-4 of them with Wong. Huge damage dealers, regenerating reckless. Probably too expensive to scheme run at 7ss.

Aren't they rare 2?

[Obeisance]

Holy crap, Merris.

Flying wk5, Reckless, discard a card to drop a Scheme marker. Df6. Does she protect herself with Exhaust Trail?

...

Boo Rare2. Sad face.

...

Hm, Raphael. 

[Nikodemus]

9 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Probably too expensive to scheme run at 7ss.

If it nets me 3VP it ain't too expensive. If it blocks a few VP from my opponent while at it it's even less so.

But I don't do Gremlins. You've got some silly cheap models. If you get the same effect for less SS obviously go with that.

[EpicWaffle]

9 hours ago, Obeisance said:

I feel like Fingers could run most schemes virtually solo. But eggs, basket?

Closer look at Fingers..

DF/WP 6, decent hp and cg8. He's also ht1 which is situationally amazing.

Squeal, Reckless, Don't Mind Me, Chatty. Can turn enemy scheme markers into yours.

If he can target himself with Take A Swig he can also heal himself. Being a Henchman he can also use Soulstones.

Problem is, he has zero damage output and is 10ss... but he seems crazy good at schemes/scheme prevention

he's noto just good, he's the best, and it's so hard for the opponent to stop him since either you use a couple of huge pieces or he's just gonna squeal away minding his own business.

In my opinion we have some of the best scheme runners among all factions and you annoverated most of them (I agree with dogmantra about the First Mate, he is so good) so roosters missing their reckless won't be hitting too hard IMO

I never personally liked them, cause I found out that when you deploy them, they have a huge "hit me batman!" sign with them and by the end of turn 2 (3 if I'm lucky) they're gone, so having them as my only scheme runners seemed too much unreliable (as cheap and fast hitters they're great tho). About the cuddle, IMO they're still a great piece while not so unfair for others (I mean a minion that can charge a piece with a 2/5/6 ml6 with bayou 2 cards at 22" it's kinda broken xD) 

[cfrag]

Although people have said it, I will repeat it: Merris!

She's only 6SS and although it's only wk5, being flying is a huge boon. Also, she can pop a scheme marker as a (0) and closer to another marker than by usual means.

Although her attack is strange (burn +3 with no track dmg) it is pretty good vs some models because it ignores cover and flips to dmg because you dont flip for damage.

Lastly, but definitely not least, she really helps when you have a really bad hand and desperately want higher cards in your hand. Taking 2 cards from the top of your deck and placing 3 back helps your hand and, depending on how in control of the activations you are, might not be a drawback, You just need to be creative (for example, drop 3 low cards and use a bayou gremlin to attack somer with those low cards. The attack will fail and if you do it right somer will get the trigger to move)

 

I stopped playing with her because it was becoming a crutch model so bad that people actually assumed I was going to take her

[Math Mathonwy]

Francois is an amazing Scheme machine. Reckless and the ability to murder anything that the opponent send to try to stop him. Being able to use Stones for prevention (unlike Burt) makes him super durable when needed so the opponent has to send an enormous pile of enemies after him or else he will simply kill whatever comes and be on his merry way. And if he goes down a flank he is basically either unstoppable or else the opponent loses the game as he devotes too many resource to that flank and you can capitalize on it elsewhere.

As for Fingers, well,

In GG16 he isn't quite as crazy as he used to be but he is still absolutely nuts in Headhunter (able to get full points from the Strat while denying it to the opponent at the same time - yes, please!).

[cryion]

10 points for Fingers simply seems too much. 10 points in Gremlins for no damage at all seems bad. Engage it with something and he doesnt do anything. Walk 6 is nice I suppose. Meh.

[spooky_squirrel]

2 minutes ago, cryion said:

10 points for Fingers simply seems too much. 10 points in Gremlins for no damage at all seems bad. Engage it with something and he doesnt do anything. Walk 6 is nice I suppose. Meh.

He has Don't Mind Me and Chatty.

Engaging him doesn't stop his ability to scheme. His being on the board stops the opponent from being able to interact in a fairly large footprint.

[cryion]

Just now, spooky_squirrel said:

He has Don't Mind Me and Chatty.

Engaging him doesn't stop his ability to scheme. His being on the board stops the opponent from being able to interact in a fairly large footprint.

Ya but only wherever you pin him down.
Chatty is occasionally good, but I guess in many cases you can pick schemes accordingly?

I dunno, quite possible Im wrong. But for 10pts Id rather get something that screws up an enemy model. Dont need chatty if there is no model.

[Dogmantra]

34 minutes ago, cryion said:

Ya but only wherever you pin him down.
 

Only if no one ever tries to hit him (including friendlies). Loudest Squeel pushes him on any mask regardless of success.

[Math Mathonwy]

57 minutes ago, cryion said:

Ya but only wherever you pin him down.
Chatty is occasionally good, but I guess in many cases you can pick schemes accordingly?

I dunno, quite possible Im wrong. But for 10pts Id rather get something that screws up an enemy model. Dont need chatty if there is no model.

You are playing it wrong  

As Dog Mantra notes, Loudest Squeel makes Fingers probably one of the most difficult models in the whole game to pin down. And Fingers screws up not one but all the enemy models that are in his Aura. You can use the rest of the points for killing (with Gremlins it will still get you plenty).

[wizuriel]

To be fair fingers is really an 11pt model since you're always going want dirty cheater on him. He can heal up to fully really easily with dirty cheater. 

[spooky_squirrel]

I won't say that you're wrong. I'm just recommending not discounting a tool because it's a focused tool that happens to be very good at what it is designed for.
If you have Hunting Party in the scheme pool and you want to at least bluff it, you need Enforcers and Henchmen that can do some damage, so Fingers would not work there. If the scheme pool is more interact-based (i.e if killing-based schemes are no longer on suits in GG2017, substantially reduces the likelihood of Hunting Party), Fingers is the best tool for the job, hands down. He alone can account for 6VP differential (scoring and denial), which is a steal for 10 stones. That leaves you the other 40 stones in your crew (upgrades and cache included) to work for the win and keep things off of him that would cause him problems (like no pushing, no defense triggers). There's nothing saying you cannot drop all 40 of these stones into super killy stuff that's going to blue-face-charge across the table and keep your opponent distracted while Fingers quietly wins you the game.

As @Math Mathonwy mentioned, Chatty screws everyone up. There's a circle that is centered on Fingers in which your opponent cannot interact, period. That circle is roughly 13 inches across, on a table that's 36 inches across. His threat to interact-based schemes is so solid that it means your opponent will avoid schemes that rely on targeted interacts, because they cannot guarantee scoring them without dealing with Fingers first. He even puts a squeeze on one of the Strategies: Head Hunter. You have to interact to pick up the head. Fingers stops interacts.
He also has the ability to steal scheme markers from your opponent and claim them as his own.

I've heard of this idea of playing to 11 VP on podcasts, and what it is is playing for the win, even if it's a 1-0 win, by accounting for the 11 VP that guarantee no tie: if you deny your opponent 1 and score 10, you win. Deny 5 and score 6, you win. Fingers is a tool for that mode of play.

If you are instead thinking of the more streamlined mode of play where you focus on getting your 10VP and don't pay much attention to what your opponent is doing or don't feel like having board control from the moment you reveal your crew, the other half of his bag of tricks won't come up.

[cryion]

I understand how Chatty works. What I meant is if Fingers is dead then it does not matter.
Yes, he has the trigger. But I figure a focused attack should put him under pressure.

That trigger btw also means that his aura moves away from the action if I come at him from the right angle.

Also ranged attacks from relative short range work as well.

But yea, of course, all that is situational. Due to my lack of experience with or against him I ll shut up now and shall return at another time when I have more evidence (or not).

[Math Mathonwy]

22 minutes ago, wizuriel said:

To be fair fingers is really an 11pt model since you're always going want dirty cheater on him. He can heal up to fully really easily with dirty cheater. 

Huh? What does he cheat? His Ml 7 Attack? I've never taken Dirty Cheater for Fingers as I find he heals way better with his Tactical Action.

[wizuriel]

5 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Huh? What does he cheat? His Ml 7 Attack? I've never taken Dirty Cheater for Fingers as I find he heals way better with his Tactical Action.

Dirty cheater combines nicely with his tactical action. Use it and cheat in a low card and he heals 2 off a min card. 

[spooky_squirrel]

I usually give him Drinking Problem since I'm typically running him as 10T with some Tri Chi workhorses and the doubled healing flip on them is pretty solid if they're not being outright killed. The other slot is probably going to be Equality.

 

and yeah, if Fingers is dead, Chatty will have no effect. Some crews and models can be reasonably certain of killing Fingers relatively easily, others will have to put a lot of work into it. Fingers' board control isn't just shutting down regions of the board, it's forcing your opponent to deal with him or adjust for him. Every AP spent killing him is AP that isn't directly scoring unless Collect the Bounty is the strat or he's the highest stone cost model and A Quick Murder is in the schemes. Even more fun is the risk of him being the Frame for Murder patsy when that scheme is in the pool; how much he can screw up other schemes forces your opponent to have to deal with him in some way.
Reminder: You flip for schemes/strat/deployment, then you hire your crew (as does your opponent) based off of how you want to accomplish the strat and which schemes you want to complete (and what faction your opponent declared, this is where you commit to some kind of plan), then you reveal your crews. Your opponent sees Fingers in your crew at this point, which leaves them already having to adjust their plans when the first model has not even been placed on the table.

[Math Mathonwy]

1 hour ago, wizuriel said:

Dirty cheater combines nicely with his tactical action. Use it and cheat in a low card and he heals 2 off a min card. 

I suppose, but if you flip somethin besides Weak, the Dirty Cheater will have no effect (unless you cheat in a higher card) - I dunno, haven't tried but doesn't sound very good on paper. I might be wrong, though!