Divergent Paths: Neverborn Edition

[LexLock]

The scenario doesn't say enemy model, it says enemy. You control the attack during an obey and I'm pretty sure that while the model stays friendly to its crew, the attack is yours.

[EnternalVoid]

11 hours ago, LexLock said:

The scenario doesn't say enemy model, it says enemy. You control the attack during an obey and I'm pretty sure that while the model stays friendly to its crew, the attack is yours.

Going to have to disagree with this reasoning.  The scenario does say enemy, but if you are going to go into all technical no where in the rules does it define the other player as your 'Enemy'.  The Rules instead go with "opponent", "opposing player" and "Other Player" to define the person you are playing with.  The only place it discusses Enemy and Friendly is on page 31 where it goes on to mention friendly and enemy models.  The attack action is on an enemy model, even if you are controlling the model it is still an enemy model's attack action that caused the damage.  And lets be honest here, to anyone watching it would look like the controlled model threw the first punch *He is ignoring fire, poison, lures, and what not going around him, the Judge only seems to care when it is an attack that deals actual damage, only then does he panic*.

The attack belongs to the model that is using the action action, it does not belong to the player controlling it.  That is how I am seeing this.  So yes, it gives people with Obey like actions an advantage for getting those 3 VP, but they are also accepting that they have to get the action off and then deal damage to their own models with their AP to get it. 

[Vorschlag]

Nice, so advantage in court goes to Zoraida, Perdita, Brew Master, Hamelin and anyone taking Ama No Zako.

Did I miss anyone?

Granted this doesn't mean the opponent wont still score full 6vp for the strategy but it does make me wonder if this is how it was intended. 

[EnternalVoid]

1 hour ago, Vorschlag said:

Granted this doesn't mean the opponent wont still score full 6vp for the strategy but it does make me wonder if this is how it was intended. 

I will agree that I wonder if it was overlooked or they had meant to word it differently.  But then again we know that not all masters/models are created equally for every strategy or scenario.  I felt that Outcasts had the advantage over a lot of factions with Painkiller scenario thanks to the healing options they had *Librarian being able to cast twice or more*.

You can add Marcus to that list of models that can do this as he can turn an enemy model into a beast and Alpha them.  Jack Daw can kind of do it as well with his Twist and Turn upgrade if he makes the enemy Tormented.  Vasilisa with Neverborn also has Obey.  Yasunori can also do it as long as the target is a minion with his (0) action.  Those are all that I can think off the top of my head.

Still that means Guild, Neverborn, Arcanist, Outcast, Gremlins, and 10T all have access to a master that can do it.  That only leaves Ressers in the dust but at least there is a Mercenary Henchmen that has access to it as an option too.  I know my opponent did not think about it before the game.  He had instead loaded up on cheap models and ways to deal burning/immunity to burning/condition removal as he was going to flood me with attempts to throw Fees around.  Had I not had Obey with Zoraida I was going to have a hard time winning due to sheer volume of AP he was going to be capable of throwing around. 

[santaclaws01]

53 minutes ago, EnternalVoid said:

I will agree that I wonder if it was overlooked or they had meant to word it differently.  But then again we know that not all masters/models are created equally for every strategy or scenario.  I felt that Outcasts had the advantage over a lot of factions with Painkiller scenario thanks to the healing options they had *Librarian being able to cast twice or more*.

You can add Marcus to that list of models that can do this as he can turn an enemy model into a beast and Alpha them.  Jack Daw can kind of do it as well with his Twist and Turn upgrade if he makes the enemy Tormented.  Vasilisa with Neverborn also has Obey.  Yasunori can also do it as long as the target is a minion with his (0) action.  Those are all that I can think off the top of my head.

Still that means Guild, Neverborn, Arcanist, Outcast, Gremlins, and 10T all have access to a master that can do it.  That only leaves Ressers in the dust but at least there is a Mercenary Henchmen that has access to it as an option too.  I know my opponent did not think about it before the game.  He had instead loaded up on cheap models and ways to deal burning/immunity to burning/condition removal as he was going to flood me with attempts to throw Fees around.  Had I not had Obey with Zoraida I was going to have a hard time winning due to sheer volume of AP he was going to be capable of throwing around. 

Hungering Darkness as well.

[Vorschlag]

Lucius unsurprising had complete control over the court case against a rather volatile Ms.Criid.

Lucius (neverborn-full mimic crew)
Sway +3
attacked by enemy +3
exhaust +3
show of force +0

Sonnia
Sway +1
Investigation +3
Convict Labour +3

My opponent is still fairly new so I opted for a fun fluffy made up entirely of mimics, the situation reminded me a little of Q's court (STNG).
It didn't take long to provoke Sonnia's wrath and "burn it down" approach as apparently even though she had planned to wait longer my opponent found my changelings and beckoners too enticing a target.
Game lasted six turns with Lucius and his entourage retreating to the shadows once they had won the day (tabled turn 5)

[Izzinatah]

Played the Day in Court Scenario against Ironsides. I thought Pandora would handle it pretty well, but perhaps I should have gone for Zoraida. Ironsides was built for that Scenario, and I definitely didn't see her "You Lookin' at Me?" trick coming...!

[Sirva]

Jackob Lynch and some of his more */hum/* less cunning associates have managed to somehow win the case for the gentleman.
He didn't want not even a taste of the fine pleasures the honeypot casinò had to offer him when he had the chanche, but i hope he could remember the aid given when we'll have some legal trouble under the moonlight.

The dream of the Warewolf Lawyer continues.

[goth]

On 10/15/2016 at 6:37 PM, Vorschlag said:

Nice, so advantage in court goes to Zoraida, Perdita, Brew Master, Hamelin and anyone taking Ama No Zako.

Did I miss anyone?

Granted this doesn't mean the opponent wont still score full 6vp for the strategy but it does make me wonder if this is how it was intended. 

Vasilisa has Obey.

[MetaphoricDragn]

Zoraida felt the threads of Fate pull, and did her part to ensure the Lawyerwolf would fall under Lucius' sway.

 

Meanwhile Zipp is berating an Iron Skeeter pilot who felt the need to harpoon gun the poor voodoo doll.

[Gnomezilla]

*stomps in accompanied by a full peacekeeper, not just its claw--which is explained when the construct rears up to drop multiple paws at once with a CLANG*

I challenge Neverborn for the child and the woman both! She's a little mechromancer now, don't pull her back to the whatever it is boring stuff you guys do with 'stones! And I am half-allied with the Ressers over some of these outcomes so I'm challenging you for the woman on their behalf.

[MetaphoricDragn]

Oh I'd totally fight for the Woman to be marked my Nytemare, probably my favorite neverborn option this week., though the Man is a close second.

[D_acolyte]

The child has 7 options this week and I am stating my thought assuming she will end up Neverborn:

Modifications of Her:

Guild gets her a harpoon, I am meh on that.

Arcanist teaches her to repair, that can be useful with Collodi and some of our constructs while being different from the widow weaver.

Outcast gets her a gun and a vow to kill Rusty, I really like this one but it means she might become outcast which I can not except.

Modification to teddy:

Reser gives teddy a gravity well generator from Lovelace, cool but meh as we have a lot of pushes that we can use on our or enemy models to counter other people pushes.

Gremlin get's the kid trippy for a bit and gives teddy poisonous claws, a Neverborn poison crew anyone.

10T causes the teddy to be more protective of the child and to shred souls, I love this as it means we have another good damage dealers vs incorporeal stuff (something I feel we have problems with).

Coming home to NB lets teddy eat souls to gain power, I am meh on this as I feel it will add more book keeping to the model similar to the reser nephilim.

What I want is a 10T, Outcast or Arcanist win this week fallowed by her joining the Neverborn at the end. I feel all 3 either have interesting story options or bring something to our faction. I could also live with a gremlin victory this week. What do people want to happen?

[MetaphoricDragn]

1 hour ago, D_acolyte said:

The child has 7 options this week and I am stating my thought assuming she will end up Neverborn:

Modifications of Her:

Guild gets her a harpoon, I am meh on that.

Arcanist teaches her to repair, that can be useful with Collodi and some of our constructs while being different from the widow weaver.

Outcast gets her a gun and a vow to kill Rusty, I really like this one but it means she might become outcast which I can not except.

Modification to teddy:

Reser gives teddy a gravity well generator from Lovelace, cool but meh as we have a lot of pushes that we can use on our or enemy models to counter other people pushes.

Gremlin get's the kid trippy for a bit and gives teddy poisonous claws, a Neverborn poison crew anyone.

10T causes the teddy to be more protective of the child and to shred souls, I love this as it means we have another good damage dealers vs incorporeal stuff (something I feel we have problems with).

Coming home to NB lets teddy eat souls to gain power, I am meh on this as I feel it will add more book keeping to the model similar to the reser nephilim.

What I want is a 10T, Outcast or Arcanist win this week fallowed by her joining the Neverborn at the end. I feel all 3 either have interesting story options or bring something to our faction. I could also live with a gremlin victory this week. What do people want to happen?

I agree with you on 10T, and if I play that scenario I'll likely use Lynch for that.  I do like Rezzer outcome though surprisingly and I'd be okay with that one too

[voranth]

On 9/20/2016 at 7:07 AM, santaclaws01 said:

On 10/15/2016 at 7:58 PM, santaclaws01 said:

Hungering Darkness as well.

I think this one's a no go as Heed my Voice specifically says the model is considered friendly for the action.

[Mutter]

Two wins to report for the Neverborn today, one for the Child, one for the Trickster.

For the Trickster, it was with Lilith against another Neverborn player, but Candy on my side proved to be the key, because I accompanied her deep into my half. Also, the Cherub again, because of (0) painkillers.

For the Child, it was Lilith vs. the Guild. Nekima and McCabe were her parents, and both died.

Btw., we weren't sure how to handle Mounted McCabe for such strategies. On his card it only says Unmounted McCabe counts as McCabe for schemes, but not for strategies. Would you have to kill him twice, or would once suffice?

 

Also, if the Outcasts get the Child a second time, it might not end up Neverborn, so TT is probably safer. On the other hand, TT are sneaky, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with one (or ALL :D) of the three models because of general sneakyness ...

[santaclaws01]

9 hours ago, voranth said:

I think this one's a no go as Heed my Voice specifically says the model is considered friendly for the action.

I would hope that your crew has more than just Huggy in it.

[voranth]

On 10/26/2016 at 9:00 AM, santaclaws01 said:

I would hope that your crew has more than just Huggy in it.

Well they were talking about masters with Obey using it on their own models then someone said Huggy could do it too. I was just pointing out Heed my Voice has an enemy only restriction.

[MetaphoricDragn]

So I 've got a game vs Guild coming up for the man.  any suggestions?

[EnternalVoid]

For the man?  You are going to hurt.  The man is a rough scenario in the fact that the condition quickly grows brutal.  Basically ever time you resolve a Ca action you get another point of the condition and take damage equal to the condition *counting the one you just resolved*.  Meaning after one cast you take 1 damage, the second one deals 2, and so on.  But by the time you have tried your third cast you will have taken 6 damage and the 4th one will knock that up to 10.  The problem here is that Neverborn masters tend to have lower Wd counts on average and we really like our cast actions.  Other factions are in the same boat but Guild has two good options for masters that do not care really about cast actions.  So if your opponent has access to Lady Justice or Perdita don't be surprised if they hit the table.

Of the Neverborn masters I would lean to Lilith for this match.  Lynch can also get by a little bit with out his cast actions but I feel he is not a good match against Perdita and Lady Justice in their scenario.  With Lilith you would have to limit yourself greatly to avoid cast actions but at the very least she has the damage profile to cut down other models and she has the high defense that she is not easily picked off by Perdita or cut down by Lady J.   So at least she can pick away and not fold easy.  After that I would build my crew around speed for picking up tomes and completing the schemes.  I would also consider a pair of Waldgeist and Mimic's Blessing on any enforcers or henchmen.  The Waldgeists duty would be to tie up models and when they have cover and camo they are hard for Perdita to remove.  Camo also can make them hard for Lady J to remove.  If you have the number to make sure you can force their master to go before your Waldgeist it will help a lot here.

[MetaphoricDragn]

7 minutes ago, EnternalVoid said:

For the man?  You are going to hurt.  The man is a rough scenario in the fact that the condition quickly grows brutal.  Basically ever time you resolve a Ca action you get another point of the condition and take damage equal to the condition *counting the one you just resolved*.  Meaning after one cast you take 1 damage, the second one deals 2, and so on.  But by the time you have tried your third cast you will have taken 6 damage and the 4th one will knock that up to 10.  The problem here is that Neverborn masters tend to have lower Wd counts on average and we really like our cast actions.  Other factions are in the same boat but Guild has two good options for masters that do not care really about cast actions.  So if your opponent has access to Lady Justice or Perdita don't be surprised if they hit the table.

Of the Neverborn masters I would lean to Lilith for this match.  Lynch can also get by a little bit with out his cast actions but I feel he is not a good match against Perdita and Lady Justice in their scenario.  With Lilith you would have to limit yourself greatly to avoid cast actions but at the very least she has the damage profile to cut down other models and she has the high defense that she is not easily picked off by Perdita or cut down by Lady J.   So at least she can pick away and not fold easy.  After that I would build my crew around speed for picking up tomes and completing the schemes.  I would also consider a pair of Waldgeist and Mimic's Blessing on any enforcers or henchmen.  The Waldgeists duty would be to tie up models and when they have cover and camo they are hard for Perdita to remove.  Camo also can make them hard for Lady J to remove.  If you have the number to make sure you can force their master to go before your Waldgeist it will help a lot here.

yyyeah this is a rough one, I was leaning lilith too, I glanced at Lynch, but the problem there would be Huggy?  I was debating healing or condition removal,  a gun line would be nice but not quite something too doable in Neverborn, particularly with what I have x.x

[MetaphoricDragn]

Actually, thinking about it, the collodi gunline might actually work out alright, if I can get collodi in time.

[Corwin]

I played a game for the man, we both picked the crews before we looked at the senerio. I used Zoraida because I just purchased her and finished painting her vs Rasputina. Then we see the whole Ca  deal. The Shh hurt him alot more then it hurt me. Z spent most of the game Taking a walk and making a voodoo doll. The voodoo doll worked out great hemming something then getting hurt for a cast then keep Hemingway the same guy till he killed himself. He got 2 VP for framed for murder because Z walked up to his acolyte and pricked it with her pins to not cast. Ended up winning 9-4 turn 5 end.

[Redline]

As for me, Lynch+Scion of black blood sounds ok for that, if you will be carefull enough to protect scion.

[MetaphoricDragn]

Well Lilith's top  nephillim are in the infirmary, but not before they and the tots successfully snuck the needed tomes to the Man under the watchful eyes of the Ortegas