Starting with Viktorias

[Spellscape]

Hello

We with friends want to start Malifaux and  he choosed Viktorias set (I'm writing it his name). (rest will be Rasputina , Zoraida , Shenlong and others)

Friend and I never  played Malifaux so we need to know what to get in addition to playing cards, starter set to make 50 ss?

Thank you for help (I'll be posting in other forum factions because my friends can't write in English)   

[SlackerLM]

For outcasts, get Von Schil's box set (Hired Guns). Trapper and Librarian are going to be staples for most Outcast crews. Vanessa and the Malifaux Child will also be useful in a Victoria's crew. A good beat stick model will also be useful, Lazarus, Bishop. Learn how to "slingshot" the Victoria's (it will help you understand their synergy), just remember that as you get better, so will your opponents, at which time the "slingshot" will not be so effective. 

[daniello_s]

Vanessa, Malifaux Child plus Lazarus would fill it up nicely. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

As Slacker said, the Hired Guns box set is good to have because a couple of the models - trapper (he's a sniper) and librarian (does healing) are good in all crews.  von Schill is also a great master to learn the game on, he's quite simple to play.  Viks can punish you a bit if you make a mistake with them, such as put them in the wrong position, and it can take a bit to get your head around how they interact with each other.  Nothing wrong with starting with them though

If you don't want to spend that much money, Vanessa is another sister so links in well.  She does healing as well.  Malifaux Child is an excellent totem and I use him a lot more than I use the Student of Conflict - he can do some of the casting actions of the master, so he can help Vik of Ashes buff Vik of Blood.  And he can heal.  Maybe start with those 2, then think about what you think you're missing.  Bishop is a great melee model.  Desperate Mercenary and Sue are great ranged models, as is Lazarus.  

You will hear a lot about the 'slingshot' (check out pullmyfinger.com for guides on all the models).  It's just a movement trick using the 2 Viks and the Student.  It's not the only way to play them.

 

[BigStick]

I started with the Viks in 1st ed and they are still my favourite masters. I've found Vanessa to be a great model who is capable at range and melee (I've suprised a few opponents with her). Other than the Von Schill box that has already been mentioned, I've found Bishop to be good and is quite versatile, Convict Gunslinger can be quite good against certain crews especially with his trigger to get additional shots and his Df trigger to punish opponents who miss (with the correct suit of course). Void Wetch's make good scheme runners and Big Jake is great at recon strat. 

My biggest tip with using the Viks is that a lot of the time restraint is key. Yes you could get Blood into your opponent in turn one but often the question is why. If you do that Blood will die and her offensive output is massive. Hold the Viks back a little and make your attack in turn 2 or 3 so the girls can support each other. I've played plenty of games where the Viks have tabled my opponent and the Viks have survived or died on turn 5. Also remember their healing, if any sister (Ash, Blood, Vanessa, Student) then they all heal that much.

Hope this helps and welcome to malifaux 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I always find Vanessa to be quite underwhelming myself.  Maximum damage output is just too low (although on the centre line she does have a very good chance of hitting 4 damage, it still takes at least 2 hits to take down a minion let alone something bigger) and she's too squishy.  I find she's a model I need to keep out of the firing line. Usually she dies and doesn't do a lot else....

 

Unless you have something to attack with Viks, you're probably better activating them fairly late in the turn (especially turn 1 or 2 when you're just positioning them).

[BigStick]

I find Vanessa to be a versatile model. With some good positioning she is an average of 4 damage (which is nothing to sneeze at especially against incaporial models) but with better positioning she is a Ca 9Tomes (yep and wow) which means her arcane staff is really difficult to defend against (that is almost double what most minions and enforecers Df is) but it also has a baked in blast on moderate and severe and a surge trigger (draw a card). Also makes her healing go off on a 4 of anything with a 2/3/4 spread. Granted its a 2 action but if you cast it on Ashes with survivalist on you'll get a + to the heal flip with an average of healing 3 to all sisters on the board. Used well is a massive increase to the Viks survivability. I've also killed a rider with the Viks and Vanessa as my opponent did not expect Vanessa to have a 2/4/6 damage spread in melee. 

I agree with CapnBloodbeard that it is better activating the Viks late in the turn to minimize return attacks and so you can read the play a bit better. Also this allows you to set them up with Any upgrades that may assist, Blood with ++ to attack and +2 damage is death incarnate 

[BigStick]

Also I know it's a little off topoc as you wanted which models to add, but the Ronin are great and when i run Viks I really leave malifaux city without at least one of them. Check them out on pullmyfinger and almost an auto include when facing Guild or expecting armour

[daniello_s]

2 hours ago, BigStick said:

Also I know it's a little off topoc as you wanted which models to add, but the Ronin are great and when i run Viks I really leave malifaux city without at least one of them. Check them out on pullmyfinger and almost an auto include when facing Guild or expecting armour

I wouldn't describe them as almost an auto-include for the crew where Pokey (with Mark) ignores armor and swings for min 5 damage (with Sisters in Fury in use), Ash has same damage spread, Taelor can has min 3 damage, ignore armor and is bane for enemy constructs and very likely Johan will be around with similar perks like Taelor. Ronins with their Mi5 and 1'' range are at least fillers in the crew as as long as you don't need more mobile and cheaper scheme runner (for the price of 2 Ronins you get 2x Winged Plague and Hodgepodge Effigy).

[BigStick]

5 hours ago, daniello_s said:

I wouldn't describe them as almost an auto-include for the crew where Pokey (with Mark) ignores armor and swings for min 5 damage (with Sisters in Fury in use), Ash has same damage spread, Taelor can has min 3 damage, ignore armor and is bane for enemy constructs and very likely Johan will be around with similar perks like Taelor. Ronins with their Mi5 and 1'' range are at least fillers in the crew as as long as you don't need more mobile and cheaper scheme runner (for the price of 2 Ronins you get 2x Winged Plague and Hodgepodge Effigy).

I don't disagree with your assessment of the models, Taelor is amazing and for me my favourite model in the game. However, to leave all the heavy lifting to Taelor and Blood (while effective) can leave you in a dicey situation is one of them is killed. A couple of my regular opponents run pretty armour heavy lists ad having another model that can be a threat while your cheap scheme runners do their thing has been quite helpful. The last game I played my Ronin killed a Peacekeeper almost single handedly. Now granted she got some lucky flips and Ronin should not be expected to do this every game, the point is that they can do this and are therefore a threat that should not be ignored which can take the pressure off other models. 

Yes daniello_s has a point of Ronin being filler models but that I feel is more about Outcasts having a lot of great models but expensive that you usually look to first. The main reason for the auto include status is that even as a filler model they always make it into my crew and have yet to disappoint 

[Munindk]

On 28. maj 2016 at 10:26 PM, daniello_s said:

Vanessa, Malifaux Child plus Lazarus would fill it up nicely. 

Vanessa + Lazarus can pump out a scary amount of fire power.

Other than that Johan is everybodys favorite outcast, he's great in faction and in just about every other faction too.

[BigStick]

Munindk I've recently painted up Lazarus but I haven't played him yet. On face value his damage output seems a little limited for 10ss. I was wondering what your experiences have been like with him and how would you play him to get the best out of him?

[Blacks85]

Lazarus is freaking amazing, probably too strong for its cost.

• Sh 6 is so much
• Range 12" is not bad, pretty good
• A minimum of 3 DMG is high, mostly considered it has blast and 6 as maximum...which is huge.
• It's absolutely tough => Armor 2 and built-in 0 heal without even discard a card
• It's decent in C/C
• Unfortunately it has a (0) action which you could very rarely use...but it's ok, you got a free heal.
• It has Autofire...which is much more strong that rapid fire. It can shoot 3 different target in one activation...and heal himself.
• Finally it is a freikorps...Hard to kill with the mustache is super OP

[Munindk]

I havent played the combo myself, but I've seen it in action.

Auto fire (2 AP) for 3 sh6 3/3/6 attacks is pretty good and you could discard Oathkeeper to get an additional AP. It gets really crazy when Vanessa does her Command Construct (0) to make Lazarus shoot again. He's good in melee, has armour 2 and he can heal as a 0 action. The only things I dont like about him is his wk 4 and that there's not enough Outcast constructs for him to use his Assimilate action, which sounds pretty good in Arcanists though.

Vanessa herself is no slouch it melee and at range. Her ranged attack is especially if she's at the center line so park her and Lazarus there to hold a marker and blast away.

Almost forgot, Tara could make him fast too...

[lusciousmccabe]

2 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

Lazarus is freaking amazing, probably too strong for its cost.

• Sh 6 is so much
• Range 12" is not bad, pretty good
• A minimum of 3 DMG is high, mostly considered it has blast and 6 as maximum...which is huge.
• It's absolutely tough => Armor 2 and built-in 0 heal without even discard a card
• It's decent in C/C
• Unfortunately it has a (0) action which you could very rarely use...but it's ok, you got a free heal.
• It has Autofire...which is much more strong that rapid fire. It can shoot 3 different target in one activation...and heal himself.
• Finally it is a freikorps...Hard to kill with the mustache is super OP

Lazarus is pretty awful in melee for the cost, that's why he gets to have all that other stuff. Basic minions can hold him up in melee for multiple turns, which reduces him to a really tough warm body.  

[Spellscape]

Do I need to buy any Decks for the game (not counting Arcane)

[Freman]

You need a deck of cards to play, either normal playing cards or a bespoke Malifaux deck. I use the Evil Baby Orphanage deck which is rather artistic. If you only buy the model box then the Generalist Upgrades box will give you all the generic upgrades for Outcasts, some of which are very good.

[daniello_s]

Has anyone used Emissary with Viks? Which models do you go with when you take him? I was thinking about Johana, Lazarus or Hannah and Vanessa plus some cheap scheme runners.

[Patzer]

On 2016-05-31 at 10:56 PM, daniello_s said:

Has anyone used Emissary with Viks? Which models do you go with when you take him? I was thinking about Johana, Lazarus or Hannah and Vanessa plus some cheap scheme runners.

Looks really good with them I think! Haven't tried it though.

[Spellscape]

So what is better for new player - Lazarus or Hannah?

[Franchute]

Lazarus is pretty straightfoward to play and combines with Vanessa.

[SlackerLM]

1 hour ago, Spellscape said:

So what is better for new player - Lazarus or Hannah?

It depends on strats and schemes...

In all seriousness, if you can, play a few games with one, then the same amount with the other, and chose whichever suits you and your play style. 

[daniello_s]

On 6/2/2016 at 2:41 PM, Patzer said:

Looks really good with them I think! Haven't tried it though.

With VIks? Hannah (just take Johan and Librarian as well to see how good she is).

[Blacks85]

15 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

With VIks? Hannah (just take Johan and Librarian as well to see how good she is).

How can you play a 10SS model very, very slow with only melee attack and with a low min. damage of 2?

Lazarus - at least - is much more tough and shoot extremely well.

Strongarm still better them both imo

[Tawg]

12 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

How can you play a 10SS model very, very slow with only melee attack and with a low min. damage of 2?

Johan is condition removal, in an AoE for (0), which means now Hannah is too.  With Librarian, she gains a heal as well, because she can copy any of a Friekorps actions, not just (0).  Plus Hannah is kind of annoying in her own right, if she gets close enough to certain opponents, she can ruin their built in suits if they rely on them (Especially for double-suited triggers).

I'm not sure which one is the Min 2, slow and melee only (Is Johan's damage min 2, really?  I don't have my book right here), but I suspect that would be the logic behind the choice.  It's kind of trying to build a more versatile crew to handle what comes at it, in respect to removing the conditions opponents try to throw at you.

Never played with Hannah, mind, so I'm not fanatically devoted to the idea, but I see the concept.