OSP Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Hi! I was wondering if you could help me, could you tell me which models work well with Kaeris & Rasputina? Almost all of my miniatures are designed to play with Rasputina (ice golem, ice gamin, blessed of december, myranda, snowstorm, blessed and two acolytes) and my Kaeris crew is quite small (firestarter, eternal flame, one gunsmith, three fire gamin, one raptor). My next purchase will be the mechanical rider, any adittional suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaxeman Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Metal Gamin are always winners, and give you an alternative gamin for the rider to poop out too. Adding a metal gamin model for 4SS to give metal protection to the Ice Golem is much better value IMO than looking at 2SS for an Imbued protection card. Johan for condition removal, a heal and the relic hammer attack is a good fit in any crew too. Malifaux Child as an alternate totem to cast more of the leaders casts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Madaxeman makes some good suggestions above. Kaeris is something of a skirmisher so I find I need something to hold the centre with her. Joss does this really well, as backed up by the Eternal Flame he's a total tank. Large Arachnids also get a lot of good value with her. Cassandra also does amazing things for any crew, especially with Practised Production. Using PP and a Raptor it's possible to do some fairly sick things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 +1 For Cassandra and also the Essence of Power might be worth a look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSP Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Madaxeman makes some good suggestions above. Kaeris is something of a skirmisher so I find I need something to hold the centre with her. Joss does this really well, as backed up by the Eternal Flame he's a total tank. Large Arachnids also get a lot of good value with her. Could the rail golem do the same job? I don't like Joss miniature, but a crew of metal gamin, rail golem and Kaeris sounds good for me. I think I'll begin buying the mechanical rider and the metal gamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Rail Golem can do something similar. It is a more swingy model. When you get mid tomes it is wonderful, without them it can sometimes seem underwhelming. I personally don't like using it as a tank to hold an area, rather as a shock attack, but if your opponent doesn't have any anti armor stuff, it can certainly hold up to a lot of punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaxeman Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Joss is so good that if you don't like the model it may be worth looking for a proxy. As he's now only available in the Ramos box set, proxy-ing him is probably seen as being at the more acceptable end of what models are OK to proxy anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guslado Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 For Rasputina, if it has Frozen Heart it will work well in her crew. Myranda also works great as a scheme runner with Raspy--put Imbued Energies on her and she is the same cost as the Blessed of December or Cerberus she will be changing into a bit later plus you get a fist full of cards when you do. Also, don't underestimate the Wendigo; I see a lot of people bringing the Essence of Power or Malifaux Child with Raspy, but the Wendigo can do a lot of work for a 3ss model--there are few things more satisfying than a Wendigo eating Ophelia on turn two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 So it's more to do with Firestarter but he's kind of Kaeris related, I don't have Firestarter's card (preordered the Kaeris box at my LGS though) but is it possible to have him triple Ignition the Rail Golem to bring it up to 7 Burning turn one? That seems like it could make for a good alpha strike in scenarios where that's handy to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 So it's more to do with Firestarter but he's kind of Kaeris related, I don't have Firestarter's card (preordered the Kaeris box at my LGS though) but is it possible to have him triple Ignition the Rail Golem to bring it up to 7 Burning turn one? That seems like it could make for a good alpha strike in scenarios where that's handy to have. Almost exclusivley its not the amount of burning on the Rail golem that is the limiting factor, its the amount of 4+ you hold. Unless you are using locomotive to walk places, you are probably generatign the burning as quickly as you are spending it in combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otylia Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 If taking the mechanical rider with Kaeris, would you guys recommend just summoning fire gamin instead of hiring them to start with? Or hiring the fire gamin to start burning asap, and then letting the rider just focus on dropping metal gamin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Hire fire gamin, summon metal gamin. Summoning a 2 wound Df4 minion who explodes on death is asking for trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 To be honest I'd skip the Fire Gamin all together. They're reletively low value in game. The burning they provide isn't really worth the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 To be honest I'd skip the Fire Gamin all together. They're reletively low value in game. The burning they provide isn't really worth the investment. Really? Because I tend to think a 4ss model that has Sh5 and min damage 3 (if you include burning) is extremely potent for its cost. But more to the point, Oxfordian mages are great in just about any crew, but you'll usually want to try and run them in pairs however if your going to run one then you can get some decent results by taking the nemesis ward upgrade. They can offer burning for Kaeris and pushes for Raspy and giving slow tends to be awesome in any crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 On paper Fire Gamin sound excellent with a ranged attack at Sh5 with effectively 3 min damage. They also have Wk5 (so, not wk4) and they can charge 7 and try to get killed to spread burning. But I constantly hear people say they're not good. I'm with Jordon on this one but I really want to hear the argument for why they are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 I really like fire gamin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 If taking the mechanical rider with Kaeris, would you guys recommend just summoning fire gamin instead of hiring them to start with? Or hiring the fire gamin to start burning asap, and then letting the rider just focus on dropping metal gamin? I guess the most important question is "What are you trying to do with that Burning?" If its just to give the bonus' to Immolate, then they aren't really the best. If its to set your models up to wings of Fire, or heal, then they aren't the best. If you've built a crew around getting bonus' against burnifn models (So largely her old box set) then they are a reasonable way to do so. You can't summon a gamin until turn 2 at the earliest, and its slow, so it is at least 3 AP down on a hired model. Soif you are tryign to use that burnign early, then hire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 On paper Fire Gamin sound excellent with a ranged attack at Sh5 with effectively 3 min damage. They also have Wk5 (so, not wk4) and they can charge 7 and try to get killed to spread burning. But I constantly hear people say they're not good. I'm with Jordon on this one but I really want to hear the argument for why they are bad. It's the curse of being a low cost damage dealer. Combat models have to be in harm's way, so cheap combat models die quickly and as a result reduce your activation count more quickly. Where as if you use more expensive combat models and cheap utility / objective running models your activation count tends to remain higher for longer. So the issue really is one of crew selection. We also have some truly great generic 4ss choices; Metal Gamin, Arcane Effigy, and Molemen. Our factions 5ss choices are also very solid. As a result the low cost end of your crew will often have better choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 But with a 10" range can't you keep the fire gamin out of harms way? Or if combat is too hot with enemy ranged models who ignore cover and can deal 5 damage, just let them run around and Scheme for a turn or two? Plus any attack directed at the gamin is not one directed at Howard/Joss/Johan/other large damage dealer. Or finally, run them into combat with multiple enemy models and have them explode to set up for a double Accelerant (one from Malifaux Child) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 But with a 10" range can't you keep the fire gamin out of harms way? Or if combat is too hot with enemy ranged models who ignore cover and can deal 5 damage, just let them run around and Scheme for a turn or two? Plus any attack directed at the gamin is not one directed at Howard/Joss/Johan/other large damage dealer. Or finally, run them into combat with multiple enemy models and have them explode to set up for a double Accelerant (one from Malifaux Child) I think that more or less sums up my point. Two of your suggested uses, scheming and soaking damage, we have demonstrably better 4ss models for. What's left isn't efficient. Can you keep the fire gamin out of harms way? - Sure but to keep them safe you have to highly limit what/how they can engage. Protecting a cheap model is a poor investment on the table. Fact is it's difficult to make effective use of a combat model (except the dedicated snipers) and keep it out of the action, 10" isn't an uncommon threat range in the game. Can we play them like exploding bombs? - Sure but it's a lot trickier than you would expect. You have to get them in and dead, after the enemy has activated but before Kaeris and/or the Child, and your opponent has to let you do it. I've tried it and it's very rare you get 4ss worth of effect from the trick. I've played a lot of Kaeris competitively and what I'm saying is Fire Gamin aren't bad on paper, they just don't fit in an optimal Kaeris list for any set of objectives I've ever run across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otylia Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 As someone with minimal funds who had been anxiously awaiting the Kaeris crew box release (and was already disappointed by the lack of gunslingers in it) this makes me so sad to hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 As someone with minimal funds who had been anxiously awaiting the Kaeris crew box release (and was already disappointed by the lack of gunslingers in it) this makes me so sad to hear... I feel your pain as well. Big thumbs up to MythicFox, thanks for the in-depth reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 I feel a bit bad now I'll be first in line to buy a Kaeris box when it turns up, and I already own two of the old metal ones. I should say that I'm only talking about the optimal line to take in a competitive environment. There's nothing wrong with Fire Gamin when you start out with the crew. Plus they look awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Don't feel bad, just get us hyped for other things Where do you stand on the whole 1 gunsmith or multiple thing? Personally they seem to be such an unreliable hand dependant headache (for their fast trigger in particular)(plus their weak damage track and activation order dependency to get the most of The Hard Way) that I'm hesitant to even try one, but I've since been convinced to try, bought one, and will be giving it a try once I get the new Kaeris box. Also can you go more into depth on the Large Arachnid? I understand the synergy between it and Grab and Drop, but the damage track doesn't impress me much and seems like a hand drainer. The enemy scheme marker removal with an effective 12" range is VERY intriguing however! How do you use Kaeris? I'm planning to take Blinding Flame and activate first, marking enemies so they can't charge, or if there's a good Accelerant opportunity, waiting and doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Where do you stand on the whole 1 gunsmith or multiple thing? Personally they seem to be such an unreliable hand dependant headache (for their fast trigger in particular)(plus their weak damage track and activation order dependency to get the most of The Hard Way) that I'm hesitant to even try one, but I've since been convinced to try, bought one, and will be giving it a try once I get the new Kaeris box. I've tried them many times in and come to the conclusion they're not worth it for the reasons you've outlined. If you have 7ss and want to attack at range then the December Acolyte is a better choice. If you have 7ss and want to attack up close Johan is far more effective. If they had access to weak damage three or a to damage they'd be fine. As they are they wouldn't be OP if they cost 5ss. Also can you go more into depth on the Large Arachnid? I understand the synergy between it and Grab and Drop, but the damage track doesn't impress me much and seems like a hand drainer. The enemy scheme marker removal with an effective 12" range is VERY intriguing however! It's a solid body that's hard to remove (for it's cost), which is always nice. The real use though, as you've pointed out, is it's (0) action. Scheme marker removal is golden, especially with the kind of reach it has. Plus access to attack and damage is always nice. As to how to play Kaeris that's a more complex answer so I'll collect my thoughts a bit before I post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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