Kadeton Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm not usually one for idle wishing but it would be nice if she had the Precision trigger off Pistoleros and/or the damage on her attack by default. That sword is kind of her whole schtick outside of the anti-resser niche, it'd be nice if she was actually better with it than anyone else. I'd go the other way: she doesn't need anything that makes her do more damage, she's got that well covered. Instead, she needs something else to broaden her "shtick" into other areas. Personally, I'd like to see her get more mobility, based on that awesome story where she's chasing Nicodem and he spends the whole time whinging about how normal humans shouldn't be able to pull the stunts she does. Climbing at normal movement rate (M1E "Arachnid") and Immunity to falling damage would be a nice callback, for example. Her upgrades are pretty good and give her more options (Unimpeded, Last Rites, Pursuit of Justice and Onslaught are all great things to have) but they're just so expensive. I feel like she really gets overcharged for her additional abilities. I also would have made Lead Lined Coat available to her, as well as Henchmen and Enforcers (much like Warding Runes is available to Ironsides and Henchmen, and for much the same reasons). Flames of the Pit should also give out its benefits in a wide aura, in my opinion - Justice should be inspiring everyone around her. Wishlisting is fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntrepeNinja Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I don't want to be that guy, but I will. Talking strats and stuff is all well and good- as is brainstorming ways to shore up her weaknesses inside of the system, IE Sidir gives her to melee. Frank gives her +2 DF. A latigo can give her to def, etc... But we need to, as a community, get out of the mindset that we're still beta testing these models. Lady J was wave one, and saw heavy testing, and while that testing was in a bit of a vacuum (none of the wave two, or now wave three stuff was there...) that doesn't mean that we need to go on a rash of buffing or cuddling things from prior betas. K. I've said my peace- if you care to continue wishlisting, feel free. I just think it's important to know that short of glaring deficiencies, I don't think Justice will be getting a shooting attack, or the ability to hire Metal gamin, or wings so she can charge over a mountain, or... ENinja (Resident Wet Blanket) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'd go the other way: she doesn't need anything that makes her do more damage, she's got that well covered. Instead, she needs something else to broaden her "shtick" into other areas. Yeah. I kind of reckon that making her a very straight up melee bruiser was a deliberate design choice (she kept her shooting right up until the end of the beta iirc). It's just kind of a shame that there's other masters with mobility and other tricks that have comparable melee with Justice, so she doesn't even have that to hang her hat on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntrepeNinja Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 To side with her for a hot second- I don't think it is that comperable. She has a higher ML stat that anyone but, say, Viks? Misaki? Lilith? Her damage is on par with them, and while she doesn't have Whirlwind/Assassniate, she can have onslaught. Her single target Wounds per Round are nearly unparalleled. She doesn't have movement tricks. Her core crew has a ton! Grab the judge. Pull models into her. Grab a deathmarshall. Drag them BACK to her. Spend a turn or two setting up ideal circumstances. Maybe she places scheme markers for Protect territory turn one. Maybe she doesn't have Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, Armor, whatever on her card. But you know what IS on her card? a 0 action heal. That's a potential 1/2/4 more wounds on top of her staggering 14 wounds. Spend four stones and hire a brutal effigy. You got onslaught triggers for days? That's potentially another 6 wounds there. Worried about a seamus bullet? Grab a Badge of Office, and have some red joker protection. She's not a Vik, she's not gonna go in and wipe out a whole crew in one turn on her own. Try it and she'll go down. She's not Lilith- you can't tangle something from behind the safety of some mountain. But she's got a crew that's able to bring her tasty treats none the less. She's got riposte! If you bring a francisco and do some discards for defensive, that's a real threat! Blindfighter so she can charge through trees, inspiring sword play to boost the effectiveness of nearby minions... She's got all kinds of unique flavor. In fact. I want to put her on the table more now than ever. As that panzer chap says, "Can you deal with this big sword?" ENinja Edit: Open Spoiler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Just so puzzled. I don't see the point in ranking individual masters in a faction. The game is balanced around knowing terrain, schemes/strata and then a short pool of seven masters, which a lot of the time can bring in lots of random things from others. The way I see it you have the following choices:- * Perdita or Sonnia when you need to force project * Lady J or Mc Mourning when you need to take the pressure to them * Lucius or Hoffman when you want to force multiply * Mc Cabe when you really need to be flexible as much as possible, while possibly only mastering scheme running. Hence, this is about what works for you and fits your play. What do you feel like today? Surely part of the joy of this game is expressing yourself through your choices and seeing how it pans out? Before anyone asks... My comfort zone is Perdita/Mc mourning/Hoffman, which means I'm currently trying Sonnia/Lady J/Lucius more than I would usually do. I'm trying to avoid McCabe cause everyone loves him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 But we need to, as a community, get out of the mindset that we're still beta testing these models. Lady J was wave one, and saw heavy testing, and while that testing was in a bit of a vacuum (none of the wave two, or now wave three stuff was there...) that doesn't mean that we need to go on a rash of buffing or cuddling things from prior betas.I seem to recall quite a few Wave 1 minis getting a bit of a boost after the fact (TT Archers, Samurai, Oiran, Nothing Beast, Katrina, I'm probably forgetting someone...). Not saying that you're wrong, just that it wouldn't be impossible for there to be Upgrade love somewhere along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I seem to recall quite a few Wave 1 minis getting a bit of a boost after the fact (TT Archers, Samurai, Oiran, Nothing Beast, Katrina, I'm probably forgetting someone...). Not saying that you're wrong, just that it wouldn't be impossible for there to be Upgrade love somewhere along. I sincerely hope that they use the Upgrade system to broaden the game without adding new minis one day (or fewer minis at least). But upgrade love is coming: Lets see what the Emissary brings and discuss boosting her afterwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Agreed. One of the values of the upgrade system that was pointed out in the beginning was the ability to give underwhelming models a boost. There have been several such releases specifically for that already....look at the Samurai, Oiran, and 10T Archers. The designers have already proven that they read the boards and pay attention to what's going on. I'm still not 100% convinced that Lady J technically needs that treatment, but I guarantee that if she does then Justin will address it. It is very much worth our time to have debates and discussions like this one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I agree with the Rezzer dissing gorilla boy on this one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Saying that, Lady J has finished pretty highly in quite a few uk tournies. OK, mainly down to some great players using her, but she is not so below the pail as to have a free upgrade or anything. I've always found badge of office, the one which gives unimpeded, and the one which means you cannot leave her melee range more than enough to gum up the opposition for a good few turns. Does she always survive? No. Does she create a stink with the brutal effigy? Damn right And I don't even take Francisco with her 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectreEliteGaming Posted June 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 The purpose of ranking masters is to facilitate discussion in regards to efficiency and optimization. Its like Malifaux's version of Magic Deck building. Sure, stuff like strat/scheme pool and terrain come into play but its hard to argue that Recon =/= Ramos or Reckoning =/= Levy. If you take two players of equal skill (or just imagine yourself playing against yourself) the one who plays the more generally proficient or stronger master has an advantage and the other, a handicap. In addition, some masters (such as the worst master in the game - Mei Feng , Viks, or even stonger masters like Hamelin or Sonnia) have built in weaknesses that is reasonably easy for an experienced player to exploit or deny. Its a powergamer concept - and as a person who barely gets a decent amount of games in - I don't have much opportunity to goof around and try new things. I'm only interested in the masters that are top two/three within their faction. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't paint up the others just to look at. The point of this thread was: "So if Justice kills things and McM kills things and provides utility - why take Justice?" I could have just as easily asked "Why would I not take Ramos in Recon/Int?" or my favorite... "Why would I not take Levy for... everything? >8)" I really want to jump on the Collette train right away here - she seems exceptionally cheesy in almost everyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 "Why would I not take Levy for... everything? >8)" Yep, that's the question I keep getting stuck on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Because ironically lady j with justice unleashed is a quite good counter to him. Who cares when you avoid all defensive abilities from 12" away when you have no defensive abilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Who cares when you avoid all defensive abilities from 12" away when you have no defensive abilities... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 We are also skipping one important point: Why pick Lady J over McMourning? Because you don`t like McMourning model/style/fluff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 We are also skipping one important point: Why pick Lady J over McMourning? Because you don`t like McMourning model/style/fluff Denied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Because you don`t like McMourning model/style/fluff But but but Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Fluff/modelwise I`d pick Lady J over anyone, so you have to have a different style. She`s my headbasher of choice <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I get liking Justice more, but disliking McMourning? That's like disliking puppies. Rabid, maniacal, murderous puppies. But still puppies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Seriously he`s the 6th Guild master I bought. After him there was only OPerdita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 He's the best Guild master there is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Well, considering Resser being the only faction filthy enough I don`t want to touch them (well, them and Gremlins) I condemn your point of view invalid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Well, considering Resser being the only faction filthy enough I don`t want to touch them (well, them and Gremlins) I condemn your point of view invalid Objection! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Lady Justice when I lay my vengeance upon thee." This is all I have to say in this topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 And we have the bible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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