retnab Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hey all, so I've managed to play a fair few games with Ramos and Mei Feng and while I'm really enjoying the former (even pulling out a 10 scenario point game with him!) I just can't seem to get Mei Feng to click at all... I can get her to the fight no problem but once she gets there she just doesn't really do anything and just falls apart after that. I've read basically all the articles on her I've found on the forums and thought that'd give me enough info on her. I've been taking Price of Progress, Seismic Claws, and Vapormancy with her. So far I've played her against Neverborn (Lilith) and Gremlins (Wong). Does anyone have any suggestions on how to play her better than I'm pulling off? Edit: The last list I used was: Mei Feng (Price of Progress, Seismic Claws, Vapormancy) Kang (Imbued Energy) Howard Langston (Imbued Energy) 3x Rail Workers Steam Arachnid Swarm It was Reckoning, I chose Bodyguard (Kang) and Protect Territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I like imbue protection because of DF 7 is GRRREAT!! I would drop Price of Progress. Vent steam to help vs CA actions like lure. What else do you run with her? Also Ramos and Mei Feng are almost as opposite as you can get in what they do, Ramos is a quarter back summoner and Mei Feng melee cyclone of kung fu death (very card dependent). If you can give someone burning before you go in then your even better set with Mei, so fire gamin or Firestarter are good choices. Always keep a high mask or a high card and stone for a mask to push her from her defense trigger, this can save you from a charging model or be used to move you into engaging another model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippodruid Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Well, it really depends on what you're trying to do with her. Those upgrades are pretty similar to what I usually take, so I'll work from just those. I choose Mei Feng as a leader when I want to be able to provide support over a long area (Squatter's Rights, Reconnoiter/Interference, or mobility-dependent schemes in Turf War). I will not take her if Deliver the Message is a scheme, and you can't make me. Her 3" engagement range makes it way too easy for full VPs on that. Railwalker is possibly the most efficient movement ability in the game. I'll often use Mei as a counter-flanker and redirect her back to the middle of the action once my primary targets are mopped up. If you're engaged with weaker models, use an AP to Focus before a Scalding Breath attack to land blast markers across multiple enemies. One of the major problems I've seen in her play is committing her into the middle of a gigantic scrum or against a few elite hitters. Mei wants to hit a target (including a group) hard and then jump back out to safety. She has decent Df and Wp, but it will not hold against big hitters (Lilith, Teddy, Lady Justice, Howard Langston, etc.), so try to plan for an escape route. If you can't or have a high priority target that you need to commit to, save a high card (ideally a ) to leap away if you're taking too much heat. Take enough attacks, and eventually you will be hit. If you have any specific examples of what appears to not be working for you, I know the forums can offer you a lot more focused information that can help improve specific aspects of your play, too, so if you can think of anything, let us know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 This is not a recommendation for reckoning: I am not a fan of the Steam Arachnid Swarm or having 3 rail workers, I love metal gamin and often go 2 metal gamin and 2 rail workers. For reckoning I would have 2 to 3 imbue protection even if i eventual discard them to reduce damage by 2 and a gunsmith or 2. Also with hard to kill minions i would take bleeding edge tech. Most people like the rail golem, I do not use him because I do not like the model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Mei wants to hit a target (including a group) hard and then jump back out to safety. From your OP I'd say this is the main thing you need to remember. Also use Metal Gamin, there a little slower but tanky. With Mei don't stay still if you can, keep the crew moving and choose your fights carefully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 One thing I've noticed in trying (and failing) to use Mei Feng effectively is that she has a lot of very powerful abilities pulling her in different directions. Vent Steam is an incredible defensive buff, Rail Walk is one of the better repositioning effects in the game (though it's no Lightning Dance or Tangle Shadows), her attacks are solid (though that Ml 6 is more of an issue than I would like it to be). The trouble is figuring out when she wants to be support, when she wants to be moving, when she wants to be attacking. I enjoy her because she gives you choices, but that does make her harder to run than a Lady J or what have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Answer, she never wants to go support; she wants to end combos to support actions and just about all her actions lead into combos. Rail walk->jack hammer kick-> then there are 3 trigger depending on upgrades can vent steam, give armor +1 to friendly models in a pulse 3, or push the engaged 3 inches away. Tiger claw depending on upgrades do vent steam, tremors, or rolling ground. With luck and cards into clusters: Rail walk->jack hammer kick-CROW> give armor +1 to friendly models in a pulse 3. Tiger claw ->Tiger claw(new enemy)->Tiger claw(new enemy)-TOME>jack hammer kick-TOME>vent steam. Rail walk->rail walk->jack hammer kick else where or jack hammer kick an enemy and give armor +1 to friendly models in a pulse 3. Vs 1: Rail walk->jack hammer kick-CROW or TOME> give armor +1 to friendly models in a pulse 3 or vent steam. Tiger claw -TOME> jack hammer kick. Tiger claw -TOME> jack hammer kick-CROW or TOME>give armor +1 to friendly models in a pulse 3 or vent steam. Also Tiger claw auto triggers burning and tremors. It is tough and card dependent but it will hurt... This is still simpler than mark 1, though I miss Ratty's card. I often jump back as part of her df trigger or try and keep as many non Lilith models in 3 as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 One of the major problems I've seen in her play is committing her into the middle of a gigantic scrum or against a few elite hitters. Mei wants to hit a target (including a group) hard and then jump back out to safety. She has decent Df and Wp, but it will not hold against big hitters (Lilith, Teddy, Lady Justice, Howard Langston, etc.), so try to plan for an escape route. If you can't or have a high priority target that you need to commit to, save a high card (ideally a ) to leap away if you're taking too much heat. Take enough attacks, and eventually you will be hit. If you have any specific examples of what appears to not be working for you, I know the forums can offer you a lot more focused information that can help improve specific aspects of your play, too, so if you can think of anything, let us know. Okay, so an example of one of the problem points I had with her would be in my vs Lilith game. Turn 2 I Railwalked off of a Rail Worker's head into a Jackhammer Kick against his Hooded Rider. My opponent cheats to force the miss, so I use my second AP to try again (not in range to Claw) and he cheats high to stop her again. Try a third time and it finally connects and does about 2 damage. Everything I read says she's this combo monster but both times I've used her it's been the same thing, she struggles to hit and when she does it's with the force of a limp fish. I don't know if I'm just not using her AP right or what but I'm not seeing the power in her. As far as my lists involving Rail Workers, Steam Arachnid Swarms, etc. I currently only have the Mei Feng and Ramos box sets, I do have some stuff on order but my LGS carries very little and it has to all be shipped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Okay, so an example of one of the problem points I had with her would be in my vs Lilith game. Turn 2 I Railwalked off of a Rail Worker's head into a Jackhammer Kick against his Hooded Rider. My opponent cheats to force the miss, so I use my second AP to try again (not in range to Claw) and he cheats high to stop her again. It is not possible that your target of a Jackhammer Kick is out of Tiger Claw range unless you are fighting over a wall or another model, as after a Jackhammer Kick you push directly into base with the target even if this attack action fails or was taken as a disengaging strike. So be careful with jackhammer kick disengaging strike putting you into a bad place. Also from the FAQ: Q: What happens if Mei Feng targets Pandora with Jackhammer Kick? What happens first, Pandora’s Fading Memory, or the push from Jackhammer Kick? A: Fading Memory occurs immediately after success, and the push portion of Jackhammer Kick occurs when applying the results of success or failure. Fading Memory would happen first, pushing Pandora. Then Mei Feng would be pushed into base contact due to Jackhammer Kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Oh, she's a combo beast... once per game when you draw the hand to support it, against clusters of low defense models. In my experience Yan Lo does that gimmick better and more reliably. That being said, she has (I think) the greatest access to short offensive pushes of anyone in the game so she can destroy someone's positioning with ease and I've had some success with her kicking enemy models into position for my other units to take down. Also, if you can get burning onto a model, she can tear it apart, I've thought about using the Firestarter in conjunction with her but I've never gotten the chance to try it on the field. And it really doesn't matter if you're kicking or clawing, Ml 6 isn't a reliable way to hit high priority targets early in the turn. If you want to put her up against something big you had better make sure that the target has burning, or that you're coming in with a strong hand late in the turn. But that's just my experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippodruid Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Okay, so an example of one of the problem points I had with her would be in my vs Lilith game. Turn 2 I Railwalked off of a Rail Worker's head into a Jackhammer Kick against his Hooded Rider. My opponent cheats to force the miss, so I use my second AP to try again (not in range to Claw) and he cheats high to stop her again. Try a third time and it finally connects and does about 2 damage. Everything I read says she's this combo monster but both times I've used her it's been the same thing, she struggles to hit and when she does it's with the force of a limp fish. I don't know if I'm just not using her AP right or what but I'm not seeing the power in her. As far as my lists involving Rail Workers, Steam Arachnid Swarms, etc. I currently only have the Mei Feng and Ramos box sets, I do have some stuff on order but my LGS carries very little and it has to all be shipped in. Yeah, in this situation, it probably would have been best to Railwalk away for that third AP; the Hooded Rider can hit dreadfully hard. I wouldn't even count it as a loss because your opponent is cheating 2 higher than you to make you miss, minimum (Ml 6 vs. Df 5 for the riders), and that's hopefully two decent cards out of hand. Then send in Howard to mop up. Bonus points if Kang is nearby (riders are all Constructs or Undead), or you have a mid/high or two in hand. But basically, everything admivalvorkraft said in the previous post is great. If you can find one, the Arcane Effigy is a great addition to the list, as it can add Burning to all of Mei's attacks without triggers. Also, consider individual Steam Arachnids. I know the Swarm is a better deal, SS-wise, but the Arachnids can really help crank down Df stats to make Mei more beastly with a less-than-prime hand, and a Latched On Arachnid is a direct Railwalker post to sweet face-kicking. It's also remarkably hard to dislodge the little guys, as I'm sure you've discovered with Ramos. Sure, you can't reproduce them, but a dead spider is still something you can jump to. They really help add activation control, too, which can be a big factor in mitigating card advantage (Lilith specifically is pretty good at hand shaping). But try some hit-and-run tactics in your next game with her, or send her after your opponent's flanking scheme runners. Focus more on moving enemy models around to deny VP or set up kills if she's not needed in the wings, or go on an ass-kicking spree if you have the cards for it, but remember to stay safe! Mei won't survive a concentrated assault from decent hitters, and Vent Steam is just about the perfect defense against enemy casters and shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 So it sounds like I was working off of some bad information as well, I thought the movement part of the Kick was only on hit so the last two attacks could have been Claws. Additionally I did have Kang nearby but when I asked my opponent if he had any Undead or Constructs he said no. Guess I'll know better for next time as far as those go. That's a good idea about the Arachnids, that particular game was Reckoning so we were both just bringing as many big nasty things as possible but giving her a bump from Ml6 to 7 definitely would have helped a lot there. Remembering I'm only running off of the two crew boxes still, how would this work as a revised list for her? Mei Feng (Arcane Reservoir, Seismic Claws, Vapormancy) Kang (Imbued Energies) Howard Langston (Imbued Energies) 3x Rail Workers 2x Steam Arachnids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I really like Joss over Kang unless I know that I'll get mileage out of Kang's auras. He's a construct, more durable, usually hits as hard, and can carry Powered By Flame and Bleeding Edge Tech if I want him to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaxeman Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I'd also consider taking Joss over Howard - and add in the emberling as a scheme runner/extra irritant/extra activation model. Mei needs jumping off points and Howard is sometimes too fast to hang around and be one, whereas Joss can tank it out and soften people up for Mei. Second all of the above in using her late game with a decent hand against clusters of smaller models - if you can back them into a corner even better as they all stay in range of the 1" triggered attack even when pushed. Take imbued energies and you get a truly insane turn of action and movement, and look to rail walk into combat to get the first attack on a "free" trigger too. I only take the 3" attack trigger when there is a marker removal scheme benefit as I find it pushes people away from more attacks otherwise Metal Gamin and Johan (to heal the Gamin with the BET upgrade, remove conditions and heal big models occasionally) are the other things I'd suggest investing in asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Willy is also not bad if you know armor will be common. I really wish he was not a minion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 An update: I played a game today with Mei vs Lynch and won 10-4! My December Acolytes came in so I was playing the following list: Mei Feng (Imbued Protection, Seismic Claws, Vapormancy) Joss (Bleeding Edge Tech, Imbued Energy) Kang (Imbued Energy) December Acolyte Rail Worker 2x Steam Arachnids Emberling It was Stake a Claim and both my opponent and I chose Assassinate and Protect Territory revealed from the pool. Mei with Df 7 was just too hard to pin down for my opponent to get the assassinate off and while Mei couldn't take out Lynch herself (I followed the advice here and ran an Arachnid in base with him for the -1 Df which helped), she managed to soften him up so a Fast Kang could get the last bop on his head for those points after being on Scheme marker duty to prepare for Protect Territory. The game went far better and while I'm still not 100% on Mei I think I'm getting a better feel for her. I'm really uncertain about her upgrades though, I've still never had a game where Seismic Claws have come up. Are they really an upgrade that should be taken standard or should I be looking for something else there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Congratulations on the win! I consider Vapormancy as her auto-include upgrade. Seismis Claws when I know people will bulk up (as in Turf War) or I will need the pushes. Hard Worker when I expect Armor. The Scheme marker remover (drawing a blank on the name) if I suspect I'll need it. But Vapormancy. The steam cloud is such a great action. Getting it off without AP is a godsend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Vapormancy is an auto include, Seismic Claws and Thunderous Smash are pool and crew dependent, and while I've never run her with Imbued Protection I may have to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted May 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I haven't had Vapormancy come up more than once or twice for a free Vent Steam but I can see the benefits behind having Blast access too. I think my next game I'm going to try her with Imbued Energy instead of Seismic Claws, even in that last game with lots of clumped targets in Turf War (my opponent tried to jam up the middle) the trigger for multiple claw attacks never came up where just getting Fast on demand might be what I'm wanting. I wasn't too sure about Imbued Protection but Df 7 is pretty great, especially when I knew Assassinate was in the pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 But... the trigger for multiple claw attacks is built in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I've been using Arcane Reservoir (she loves cards!), Imbued Protection, and Seismic Claws. Really miss Vapormancy but this way I can do this as my opening:1st turn, move everything up and Mei Feng Railworks and Vents Steam twice.2nd turn Mei Feng goes very late to keep up the Steam for as long as possible and then crashes into a cluster of enemies.3rd turn Mei goes early, kills stuff and strikes a pose. Then the opponent retaliates but Imbued Protection keeps her alive.Arcane Reservoir would be the one I would change for Vapormancy but she is seriously starved for cards so I'd hate to lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted May 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Oh geez, the Claws trigger is built right in. That makes a lot more sense on why people are saying it's great for crowds. I really need to learn these cards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Yeah I find she really struggles without Arcane Reservoir, for me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hey guys I myself was going to buy the rail crew box just to have the rail workers because I think that they are absolutely fantastic. I think that Kang is even more absolutely fantastic. Mei herself though, not so much. Just my opinion though, I don't like melee masters to begin with. Having said that, I feel like a lot of her problems stem from biting off more than she can chew and jumping into large groups of enemies, or against enemies who are just too powerful for her. Perhaps something like Turf war isn't her strength? I would think she would be better at recon, where she can bounce back and forth aiding different areas in a very spread out fight, or squatters, where her short pushes can quickly throw someone off of a marker (Rail walk to a metal gamin, attack, push, claim the marker, rail walk away and leave the gamin to guard the marker, stay safe in the back) If I were to play Mei I'd just never take her in Deliver a Message or Assassinate and treat her more like an even more highly mobile and damage dealing Cassandra (a bit of a poor analogy but meh) than a master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientologist Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Mei herself though, not so much. Just my opinion though, I don't like melee masters to begin with. Not picking you out personally but this is a line I see a lot when people say they do not rate Mei Feng. Mei can fight, she is not a "melee master" is the same sense someone like Lady Justice is or even Misaki from thunders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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