zFiend Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Maybe there's an alt coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 This. Unless you are trying to test out a specific rules interaction, no real opinions can be given on lists that are all that useful unless you also provide the strat and scheme pool you are hiring he list for, and ideally the faction you are facing, although the second piece of information isn't totally necessary. So in order to assist you with the list you put together, what specific strat and scheme pool was it constructed to deal with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Still a bit bummed that they didn't go with this Chompy. I really liked the creepy look, even if it was non-traditional. Maybe there's an alt coming? Ooohh yeah he's nice! I hope he's released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Ooohh yeah he's nice! I hope he's released. I think he gathered too much hate when he was first presented. This. Unless you are trying to test out a specific rules interaction, no real opinions can be given on lists that are all that useful unless you also provide the strat and scheme pool you are hiring he list for, and ideally the faction you are facing, although the second piece of information isn't totally you necessary. So in order to assist you with the list you put together, what specific strat and scheme pool was it constructed to deal with? True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I don't know what schemes/strats but chances are my most common enemy will be Pandora *shivers*. I like the idea of creating terrain with Lilith and Waldergeists to both limit the opponents and for Lilith to attack through. Vines and the Beckoner can control the opponents movement and the illuminated for resilient minions to go after markers. Tuco is just an awesome model but also very versatile and can always offer ranged support if needed. Other models I'm thinking off are silurids for scheme running and a Doppelganger for more uses of (0) actions such as the Beckoners lure. In terms of aesthetics I liked the idea of Lilith being the mistress of malifaux - the illuminated and beckoners being re fluffed as being overrun with the essence of malifaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Waldergeist terrain will do nothing vs Pandora except slow some movement on Kade. It is no blocking so they can see through it and a lot of the non MI attacks are not long attacks (gun symbol) so cover will not save you. Best of luck vs Pandora, she hit Lilith where she is week, her WP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 None of the crew's I really like seem to have any real tricks against Pandora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_acolyte Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Not so much ruthless or stubborn in the neverborn faction. Best thing you can do is identify key models and kill them or immobilize them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Lilith is quite a bad match-up against Pandora. Her sword hits hard throughout and Pandora will beat Lilith's WP nearly every time. Make your crew go after Pandora, and let Lilith go after the opposing crew. She can stay hidden and attack from range with Tangle Shadows and Wicked Mistress. Don't forget to pin down Pandora with vicked wines, if Pandora wants to push it will cost her wounds, which will really hamper her. All and all, stay out of the fight with Pandora with Lilith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 woo bonus tips thanks for the advice, noob to Malifaux though I've been reading about it and going through the wiki for over a year now - both Lilith and the other crew I want to get Toni Ironsides seem like they will struggle to go directly head to head with Pandora - I know he plays something else but can't for the life of me think what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Ironsides have a better WP than Lilith and her damage track on her (1) ap action isn't that high (at least in comparison to Lilith's), while she have a lot of attacks and spells that can get to 7 or even higher. That spell trouble for Pandora. Pandora can still Paralyze Ironsides if she goes for the Voices upgrade, but overall she isn't the worst match up for Toni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Top Hat Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 If anyone can think of any other neverborn models that can control enemy movement or use terrain to their advantage please share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosfr Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Lilith is probably my favorite master since the 2E transition and I've played more games with her than any other master. I rarely ever take many nephilim since the early days when I was trying for grow/summon lists. Now I use my crews to accomplish schemes/strats or to push stuff to Lilith to kill one at a time. That said, I do love Barbaros. His Challenge ability as a 0 action is simply amazing. And if you can focus the enemies attention on him instead of Lilith, you can use soulstones and his natural toughness to keep him alive and a distraction for a long time. The pushes he has can be used to push people over to Lilith to kill or away from Barbaros to make them spend actions to move back in to attack him. The really evil part about Challenge is that it seems to shut down your opponent trying to target their own models without checks as well. This works nicely against crews like Nicodem or Nurses or other support pieces that are just around to give bonuses to friendlies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 The really evil part about Challenge is that it seems to shut down your opponent trying to target their own models without checks as well. Oh I absolutely utterly hate Challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Lilith is quite a bad match-up against Pandora. Her sword hits hard throughout and Pandora will beat Lilith's WP nearly every time. Make your crew go after Pandora, and let Lilith go after the opposing crew. She can stay hidden and attack from range with Tangle Shadows and Wicked Mistress. Don't forget to pin down Pandora with vicked wines, if Pandora wants to push it will cost her wounds, which will really hamper her. All and all, stay out of the fight with Pandora with Lilith. Just remember that Lileth is likely to murder Pandora if you have a decent hand when you go after her, so its not all bad news. If you only have a moderate hand then it depends on the flips and how good pandoras hand is as to if you are going to get the kill. But on matching hands, you should win. So the Pandora player will need to be a little careful about how they play, they can't just make a beeline to you. And the Fears given form Upgrade is Pandoras worst nightmare. It forces her to make a Df duel. She can't switch her WP in so has to actually use the rubbish stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Just remember that Lileth is likely to murder Pandora if you have a decent hand when you go after her, so its not all bad news. If you only have a moderate hand then it depends on the flips and how good pandoras hand is as to if you are going to get the kill. But on matching hands, you should win. So the Pandora player will need to be a little careful about how they play, they can't just make a beeline to you. And the Fears given form Upgrade is Pandoras worst nightmare. It forces her to make a Df duel. She can't switch her WP in so has to actually use the rubbish stat. That is absolutely right. Pandora must be nearly as careful as Lilith. On a matching hand, Lilith as an attacker will win an still get a plus flip to the damage flip if she didn't charge (if she did she can sport a solid min 4). And Fears Given Form lets Pandora taste some of her own medicine. Frankly, maybe I overstated the level of care one need to have as a Lilith player against Pandora in my previous post. With that said though, arguments can be made for why either should win and I think it will come down to who can get 2-3 blows in first. Neither will want to go into a situation like that without a very good chance of coming out alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 That is absolutely right. Pandora must be nearly as careful as Lilith. On a matching hand, Lilith as an attacker will win an still get a plus flip to the damage flip if she didn't charge (if she did she can sport a solid min 4). And Fears Given Form lets Pandora taste some of her own medicine. Frankly, maybe I overstated the level of care one need to have as a Lilith player against Pandora in my previous post. With that said though, arguments can be made for why either should win and I think it will come down to who can get 2-3 blows in first. Neither will want to go into a situation like that without a very good chance of coming out alive. I am actually very intrigued about a Lilith vs Pandora game right now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If we play it. I will try and pin down Pandora with Vicked Wines while Lilith is safe somewhere behind terrain, and do my best to stay out of Pandora's way. I would still take Fears Given Form on Lilith, just in case things get a bit hairy ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I am actually very intrigued about a Lilith vs Pandora game right now.. I played this very matchup in my last league game and Pandora took on Lilith. Lilith did a serious number of Pandora but in the end she took out Lilith before I could finish off Pandora, she was left with little to no wounds though and a Young Nephilim trashed her with a Severe Damage flip with one of my next Activations. It's in my latest League Battle Rep http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/106808-its-tough-being-queen-slow-grow-league-reports/page-3 I used Tangle Shadows to place Lilith in B2B with Pandora and I tried trapping her in a corner of a building so her pushes couldn't let her escape, unfortunately I messed up the placement slightly but it wasn't a major issue in the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Its been a while since I got to play and have no book, but if you want to tackle pandy my thought would be. Juju with fears and res upgrade and a gupp. Charge the gupp in and make him kill himself on pandys faild wp duel damage, pop out juju and use his 0 (I think that hits df). With a few turns of 0's and fears pandy and the sorrow clump will probably be hurting and you can 2x defensive stance with your othere ap so they cant do much back to you. I know this isn't making Lilith fight pandy but nb is all about coming at them sideways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Its been a while since I got to play and have no book, but if you want to tackle pandy my thought would be. Juju with fears and res upgrade and a gupp. Charge the gupp in and make him kill himself on pandys faild wp duel damage, pop out juju and use his 0 (I think that hits df). With a few turns of 0's and fears pandy and the sorrow clump will probably be hurting and you can 2x defensive stance with your othere ap so they cant do much back to you. I know this isn't making Lilith fight pandy but nb is all about coming at them sideways Some loopholes here. First, Pandora can simply not kill the Gupp, even cast Incite on it and be out of there. Second, lets say you kill the Gupp after Pandora have activated (then the Pandora player messed up a bit, especially if a bunch of Sorrows are supposed to be around her, but well let that go for now), and let Juju out. Juju can then swing at Pandy, but if she's got a higher card she is out of Juju ml range and can retaliate the next turn with ease. Third, you said a few turns of (0) and Fears, I don't think Pandora will be around for so long, and there is little Juju can do for keeping her there. The only way that is possible is if Juju simply hits Pandora every swing, and I doubt that is the case. Fourth, defensive stance on Juju is quite a waste card. First because his defense suck and he will get hit anyway. Second, because Pandora hits WP, which Defensive Stance won't help you with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 by coincidence, I'll be part of a team running both Lilith and Pandora in an upcoming doubles event...I feel sorry for the other teams already. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoatgod_pan Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 I had a really good time taking Mr. Tannen with Lilith: his +2 shenanigans are a great synergy with Tangle shadows, as it almost always requires a high or a stone anyway. Tannen makes it into a Ca 7, and since Tangle Shadows always seems like the one part of Lilith's activation that *must* go off smoothely, it makes a big difference. Ideal scenario: Lilith activates after Tannen, Tangles shadows with an enemy model, dumping Juju or Barbaros into their midst and landing the hapless minion (or master) into base contact with herself and into Tannen's cooler aura. Then she is attacking with the usual for not having charged, the enemy can't cheat without discarding. Very potent for Make them Suffer and other killy schemes and synergizes nicely with Fears Given Form on Lilith, for a true card vacuum to decimate your opponent's hand and lynchpin models. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitli Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 by coincidence, I'll be part of a team running both Lilith and Pandora in an upcoming doubles event...I feel sorry for the other teams already. Oh... Dear... Lord! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 requires a high or a stone anyway. Do note that it only works on the card part. If you spend a stone it doesn't up the value then as you only add the to the duel total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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