Misaki as an outcast?

[SpiralngCadavr]

So, I haven't spent any time looking at Misaki as an Outcast, but am starting to get interested. I expect her and any last blossom options would be mostly or exclusively conversions, since I don't really feel they fit the outcast aesthetic.

 

...which brings me to my questions:

 

1- she feels like a less swingy/less difficult version of the Viks- am I getting the right read, or not?

2- similarly, is the reason she's not talked about much because she doesn't fill a role others don't?

3- assuming it's worth taking the time to make the crew, which last blossom options, if any, are essential or just too good to pass up?

[Kadeton]

Misaki's great as an Outcast. She's kind of similar to the Viks in some ways, but she's less killy and more durable, and more independent. I'd be very hesitant to say "less difficult", because getting a lot of value out of her requires quite thoughtful play. She feels more calculated, less reckless, than the Viks.

She's not talked about much, I suspect, because people are still getting used to the idea that she's an Outcast. Her role is actually quite distinct from the Viks, I think - she's by no means a glass cannon. She's more of a high-mobility assassin, able to maneuver through the enemy crew to kill specific key targets. The Viks come in like a wrecking ball, while Misaki's more of a disassembler, though she can still spread a fair chunk of damage around in a packed melee.

I don't bring much Last Blossom with her. Yamaziko is frankly amazing and always earns a place, but Torakage are eclipsed by Outcast minions and Ototo is hot garbage. I'm not particularly fond of Oiran - again, Outcast minions are generally better.

[decker_cky]

Only reason to bring much last blossom is if you want to abuse smoke and shadows (in which case a few Oiran are great), but the trick is so much more potent in 10T where there's the Oiran upgrade. However, it is a nice trick that she pulls over from the 10T, and is one of the unique things she adds to outcasts. 

 

She's on my "to try" list as an Outcast though. Disguised Misaki and a couple of ronin will give any crew which goes light on shooting fits. 

[Patzer]

She is very different than the Vicks. As Kadeton said, durability being the main differentiating factor. With Survivalist, Oath Keeper, and Stalking Bisento; Misaki can be very though to take down as well as being able to bring a lot of hurt (as long as you don't run into armor... as usual )

[MasterDisaster]

Misaki as an Outcast is pretty much the same as 10T Misaki. The only difference in her play style is the upgrades available and models available. She does pretty much bugger all for her crew in terms of support so she can run with just about anything and be effective. 

[Kadeton]

The main difference is that as an Outcast, she can take Oathkeeper (for a glimpse of her 5 AP incarnation from 1st edition) and Scramble ("Light speed, too slow?" "Yes, we're gonna have to go right to ludicrous speed.")

[MasterDisaster]

Attacking a Stalked Target with Oathkeeper is basically what I call "Misaki's Delete Mode"

 

Point at a target, Drop Oathkeeper for Fast, Charge, Laugh.

[katadder]

i have mostly ran her as an outcast. often bringing Yamaziko and oiran just for WP benefits then top up with outcast stuff. been quite successful so far.

 

plus as outcast she gets access to survivalist which is always worth a point for Misaki for me

[CapnBloodbeard]

Hmm, I have a metal Misaki too, maybe I should give her a run as Outcasts.....need to get a card though.

I figure because she isn't really synergy-dependant, she can go well with just about anything, especially with some of the outcasts who aren't overly synergy-dependant.

 

She can both dish out a lot of damage and take quite a bit too, coupled with some other Outcast beaters/tanks could be quite formidable with some schemes.  Especially given a lot of the outcasts aren't overly synergy-dependant

 

Given her durability I would say she's very different to the Viks.

 

And Bisento stalk....GAH!!! 

 

'My master is completely safe all the way over here.....wait, why is my master now dying?'

 

 

[Drool_bucket]

I do agree that Viks and Misaki aren't the same Master, but the play mode is the same.  Remove enemy threat(s) and then be removed.  The crew handles a lot of the VPs while the Master chops and dices.

 

She is very nice at Headhunter...  I absolutely love her in that Strategy, top Outcast master IMO.

 

Yamiziko is really good for her points.  Mind her low Df but her low cost more than offsets that.  I like using Torakage as well because I like the models, both rules and actual plastic ninjas.

 

Try her with Disguised (Limited) Upgrade.  If only to further change her style from the Viks.

[katadder]

disguise was awesome when I had her, oiran and ronin. no pig charges for you cheaty gremlin

[SpiralngCadavr]

Hi all, just wanted to chime back in and say thanks-- I'll definitely be looking at something for her and shang...

 

What's yamaziko good for? I've never seen her used effectively.

[Kadeton]

I use her for board control and defense, essentially - with Ronin and Misaki unable to be charged, Yama makes it a really bad idea to charge anyone else, and it can give opponents fits trying to work out how to shift your stuff without getting mangled. Plus, she can occasionally give a surprise beating to a Master, or spread around considerable damage. She's really fragile, though.

[katadder]

wouldnt bother with shang, never seen much use for him tbh as he cant keep up to heal (plus hurts himself to do it), although rush of magic is nice

[Drool_bucket]

Yamaziko's biggest plus is her cheap price for some decent stats.  You can't expect her to be amazing when she is only 7ss, but in some instances she really shines.  Any Master that targets Wp is a target for her... 

 

and I am a Shang believer after using him some.  The MC is really a no-go for Misaki and the SoC is expensive, while Shang just does his things and generally heals up Misaki 2-3 wds (remember the plus flip from Survivialist), is the extra card and activation.  Then he's gone and you dont' really miss him like other totems...

[AverageGatsby]

wouldnt bother with shang, never seen much use for him tbh as he cant keep up to heal (plus hurts himself to do it), although rush of magic is nice

 

 

 

 

and I am a Shang believer after using him some.  The MC is really a no-go for Misaki and the SoC is expensive, while Shang just does his things and generally heals up Misaki 2-3 wds (remember the plus flip from Survivialist), is the extra card and activation.  Then he's gone and you dont' really miss him like other totems...

 I actually do usually bring Shang. I'm not entirely convinced he/she (to me its a girl but whatever) is worth the 4 points but rush of magic is always nice. Shang has a really nice walk, so while he might not be able to keep up with diving charges and pushes, I can usually run him forward enough to give a heal when needed. As noted, most of crew has the potential to be unchargeable and Yamaziko further dissuades people from charging the ninetails. Finally, usually he is not a priority target. As he doesn't do all that much, he isn't focused down over other targets, and I've actually been able to pull off some clutch heals and shots with him when they've counted.

All the same,  for 4 points, if you choose to leave him in his poke'ball I could understand that. 

[daemonkin]

@Katadder But Shang is a minion unlike many totems and is able to take Interact actions and counts for certain strategies/schemes

 

D.

[MasterDisaster]

wouldnt bother with shang, never seen much use for him tbh as he cant keep up to heal (plus hurts himself to do it), although rush of magic is nice

 

Shang is awesome, 3ss for Rush of Magic, Heals, Significant and a Minion? Hell yeah! He's totally worth his cost. 

 

 

All the same,  for 4 points, if you choose to leave him in his poke'ball I could understand that. 

 

 

3ss dude... 3ss. It's always worth it

[Dirial]

Shang is awesome, 3ss for Rush of Magic, Heals, Significant and a Minion? Hell yeah! He's totally worth his cost. 

 

Basically, he is Scales and Proxy in one package, but significant.

 

And you people complain about him? Ridiculous.

 

[MasterDisaster]

Basically, he is Scales and Proxy in one package, but significant.

 

And you people complain about him? Ridiculous.

 

 

Tell me about it, I've never understood the hate for Shang, even if he was Insignificant he'd be worth his cost. Next thing you know there will be outrage that the CcK is underpowered!

[BigHammer]

Shang is Insignificant and a Peon both. Y'all are thinking of the other spawn of the Ember Dragon, the Emberling (Mei Feng's totem).

 

However, unless the strategy or schemes mean an easy-to-kill totem would be a liability, I usually take Shang. His Rush of Magic is equivalent to stoning for cards every other turn (so in a 5 turn game you've recouped 2.5 of his 3 stone cost), and healing Misaki can swing a fight massively. Keeping up isn't so much an issue when Misaki can easily bounce back close enough to him to trigger Companion and get those heals off. Walk 6 and a decent melee value also make him decent as a throwaway-blocking piece to force your opponent to waste AP either killing him or trying to walk away.

 

He's not an auto-include, but definitely very useful. In an outcast crew, where Misaki can (and should) have Survivalist, his heals become far more powerful (getting Misaki off of 1 HP to re-trigger Hard To Kill and getting  flips on healing make a huge difference).

[Fetid Strumpet]

There are people who think the CCK is underpowered and not worth it. Just saying. I'm not one btw.

Back on topic I also never understood the Shang hate.i like shang.

[Dirial]

There are people who think the CCK is underpowered and not worth it. Just saying.

 

[zFiend]

There are people who think the CCK is underpowered and not worth it. 

 

This I will never understand. 

 

I have liked Misaki in TT just for Misdirection and Recalled Training, now a Stalked model + Recalled training, that's the delete mode. But I will reading up on this with interest as I'd like to try Misaki as an Outcast at some point. 

[BigHammer]

This I will never understand. 

 

I have liked Misaki in TT just for Misdirection and Recalled Training, now a Stalked model + Recalled training, that's the delete mode. But I will reading up on this with interest as I'd like to try Misaki as an Outcast at some point. 

 

Now that I have my hands on the Viks and the Freikorps, I'm switching my Misaki play across to outcasts. First order of business with Misaki is always "what three upgrades will I be taking with her?" in my experience, and that doesn't seem to change much with an Outcast mistress. I'm leaning heavily toward Survivalist (because hard to kill is fantastic on her with her good defence stats and decent wounds), Scout the Field (free walk at the start of the game and combos really well with Diving Charge, plus is cheap), and Stalking Bisento (because Stalking Bisento).

 

Second order of business is "which of the Last Blossom models fit well in Outcasts?". I'm still working on that one, but a Fast Ototo could be very interesting, while Torakage make great scheme runners/runner murderers in any list (as long as you take someone to put Smoke and Shadows on coughYamazikocough). I'm less interested in Oiran in Outcasts, because you can't take Hidden Agenda on anyone to give them their boost (having it on a decent ranged enforcer or henchman in 10T makes Oiran very good for their cost).

 

In terms of minions, Ronin are fantastic and offer some synergy with Misaki; they cover her weakness to armoured opponents, and when Misaki burns through her stones (always use that last one to add a crow to her Bisento attack, to get the second for free!), she can recoup them again by sacrificing a near-death Ronin, giving her another free assassinate trigger at least.

 

The Freikorps Librarians work well with Misaki, too, as she really loves healing, especially ranged healing, and their ranged casting potential covers yet another base that Misaki might be weaker against (incorporeal models).