Jordon Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 When and why do you take these models? I've been looking at both of these models and seeing a lot of similarities between them and i've been trying to see which one holds higher sway in the crews I run. What role do you have these models play in any given list. What tactics and tricks make them valuable includes? How does one perform better than the other in a particular list? Overall my preference seems to fall towards the rail worker as it's purpose seems more focused. It's all about damage and being able to take a good punch. Also being a construct seems to open up more opportunities. I don't really use the union miner much so I'd love to hear why and where people hire this model and how useful it is. It seems like it can do a variety of things in a multitude of lists, but my inexperience with them has me questioning their purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I think the big thing about Union Miners is False Claim, primarily that you can place the markers 3" away, and there is a certain flexibility which one to use for Plant Explosives or Spring the Trap if you are not activating them last. Also that if you eat scheme markers for other effects you get two for 1 AP. Rail Workers are better tanks/hitters though a bit resource intensive if you take several, but I don't think UMs compete there anyway. If I feel I have to many discards I'd probably take some 4 pointers instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I have a hard time ever fitting in union miners. False claim is nice, and putting out burning is nice (particularly without damage), but for the overall package, I find other things always make the cut over a miner. Rail workers are surprisingly tanky and hit like a ton of bricks. With bleeding edge tech, they take a lot to put down (particularly if you have a few tomes for defence). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Really like rail workers, tend to take 2 when I know there's going to be a bit of a scrap. Even for strats like recon as they are fairly cheap and stick around whilst taking down opponents more expensive models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Union Miners with Ironsides, Rail Workers with Mei Feng or Kaeris. Solidarity is gold, and then you pile it on top of Hand Picked Men... Plus in a crew that likes to huddle having the ability toss scheme markers is super useful. Kaeris doesn't really need one more thing that can hand out burning +1 and facilitate scheme marker dropping, and Mei Feng wants durable constructs whenever possible. I don't think any of our other masters want either one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I disagree. Ramos makes good use of rail workers. Hiss buffs work on them, and bleeding edge tech is just lovely with hard to kill models, even better if you have it on ramos with accomplice. Activate ramos, ramos does hos thing with arachnids and lightning, rail worker chain activates if its down to 1 wound and heals 1, and smashes something nearby I often take one with Ramos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Rail Workers for damage and Union Miners for specific schemes. I probably use the Rail Worker three times more than the Union Miner The Miner's useful if you're going to nee to place multiple scheme markers within 4" of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well I don't have union miners, but I think I would still prefer rail workers. Those guys are amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Personally I prefer Union Miners. Rail workers are a decent combat unit, but there are plenty of those out there, and I vary quite a bit. Union miners give me something different. I like using them with Kaeris as a good cheap model to set stuff on fire if I'm using Grab and drop with out hurting anything of mine. False claim is great in many schemes. It makes the union miner one of the few models that can complete protect territory on Turn 5 by itself. PLant explosives and set the trap are much easier when you have scheme throwing. So in short, the Rail worker does soem nice things, but not very much that I can't find on anotehr model. The Miner does somethign thats pretty different. Although Manniquins allow other models to do similar stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've had some great success with Union Miners when paired with Colette and Kaeris. Promting them to use False Claim is great and with Kaeris you can use Grab and Drop to position them perfectly for a tasty 3 Scheme marker drop (1 from Wings of Fire, 2 from False Claim). Haven't bothered using them with Ramos yet though. I suspect they might be quite useful with other M&SU Masters as well but can't comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surly Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 ... and with Kaeris you can use Grab and Drop to position them perfectly for a tasty 3 Scheme marker drop (1 from Wings of Fire, 2 from False Claim). Has Grab and Drop been errata'd? Afaik you can only grap enemy models :/ @topic - I prefer Union Miners too, mainly for the schemes already mentioned Beside the schemes they don't really add much to my crews though. If the schemes aren't available, I never use them at all. It's a bit of a bummer though, that your opponent pretty much knows which schemes you've picked when they see them in your crew. Having said that, I don't own any Railworkers (yet ), so haven't found time to test them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Has Grab and Drop been errata'd? Afaik you can only grap enemy models :/ You're not using the Upgrade Grab and Drop for the (0) Action "Grab and Drop". You are using it for this... "Wings of Fire: Friendly models with the Burning Condition which Activate within 6 gain the following Ability for the duration of the Activation: "Flight: This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving." When the Activation is complete, remove the Burning Condition from the model and place a Scheme Marker in base contact with it." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surly Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I see, I just haven't thought about the flight when reading your post - nevermind then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I see, I just haven't thought about the flight when reading your post - nevermind then It's pretty awesome watching your opponent's face when you have flying models that can dump upto 3 scheme markers each in one turn. I used this on zFiend once during a Vassal game and he couldn't believe it. He had to double check the rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yeah. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted March 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Has anyone tried using them in combination with Willy? It seems like both false claim and set charge were designed to work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rythos42 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I literally just pulled Willie and the Miners out of my "will do someday" box and put them in the "will do shortly" pile this morning. When you take UM, how many do you take? I love the hell out of my Rail Workers. Awesome damage and decent defense make for a solid model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I literally just pulled Willie and the Miners out of my "will do someday" box and put them in the "will do shortly" pile this morning. When you take UM, how many do you take? I love the hell out of my Rail Workers. Awesome damage and decent defense make for a solid model. I normally run 2 Union Miners with Colette and Kaeris although I've only played Colette twice so far and one was without them. I like having one on each flank then use Kaeris or Colette to help them dump obscene amounts of markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 They don't actually help you put out any more markers - it just helps with positioning the markers unless you have something eating them during the turn (need to eat both or you don't end out ahead). Are you burning that many markers per turn even with Colette? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 They don't actually help you put out any more markers - it just helps with positioning the markers unless you have something eating them during the turn (need to eat both or you don't end out ahead). Are you burning that many markers per turn even with Colette? Not quite true, they don't need to keep moving to drop their markers, so they aren't having to spend AP to move. As such they can drop 2 scheme markers in a turn (that will remain), where as most models can't. SO they will drop more markers in a turn than (almost) anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Well with Colette they can interact to drop a Marker for a (0) then later can be Prompted to use False Claim to place another 2. Of course one of these Markers is removed at the end of the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 All of those scheme markers need to be 4" apart though don't they, meaning it's rare that they'll be able to use it multiple times in a turn - particularly in those crews that are dropping lots of extra scheme markers and considering Colette's (0) interact needing to place markers 4" away from other markers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 All of those scheme markers need to be 4" apart though don't they, meaning it's rare that they'll be able to use it multiple times in a turn (particularly in those crews that are dropping lots of extra scheme markers). Well with Colette you could do this... (0) Interact (1) Walk 4" (1) Interact Activate Colette and (1) Prompt Union Miner to push 3" and place 2x Markers within 3" (ensuring they are at least 4" away from the 1st 2 Markers so they are in a scoring position) Done! 4 Markers legitimately placed and by the end of the turn you should still have at least 3 remaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Any 5" walk model could get 3 markers out per turn with Colette's prompt though...all union miners are adding is a 3" flexibility for a mid-card cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 All of those scheme markers need to be 4" apart though don't they, meaning it's rare that they'll be able to use it multiple times in a turn - particularly in those crews that are dropping lots of extra scheme markers and considering Colette's (0) interact needing to place markers 4" away from other markers too. No. The 4" restriction is specific to Interact. Also, being within 4" of a scheme marker doesn't stop you from taking an Interact, the rule only say that the marker can't be within 4" of another marker, so existing markers doesn't stop you from taking False Claim (since you have to be able to Interact to take False Claim). So False Claim can stack markers all day long, of course placing them too close together makes it easier for the opponent to remove them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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