Ikvar Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 These kinds of threads kill me a little bit inside. I can totally get behind any conversations voicing distaste with models, rules, etc; even the ones I disagree with. I think being able to speak back to the creative team behind the product we pay money for is super important and particularly beneficial when they are open to input like Wyrd can often be. Petitioning them to change an already existing item in the inventory is just unrealistic and disingenuous. The key difference to me between a big thread complaining about things, and an attempt by the community to pressure Wyrd into taking a financial loss for something a vocal portion of the player base dislikes is the word "petition". One is I believe healthy for the production crew, so they can get a sense of what is and what is not working. It has led to some improvements in their modeling planning. The other just seems petulant - what makes sense about resculpting a brand new model for a minor size preference (not an issue - it is just a simple preference. The model looks fine otherwise). What are you expecting? That they would junk the Nekimas they've already made and waste who-know's-how-many thousands of dollars in labor, material, and design just to meet a minor preference? Would they buy back the ones they've sold? Give out an equal amount of free models to players who already bought one? The regular sized M2Nekima would just be on ebay tomorrow for half price and then Wyrd will really have taken a loss. There have been design decisions I particularly disliked just like the rest of you. There are even threads where I've gone in and loudly complained. I've never tried to apply pressure to the company to get my way because I'm not the only person playing and it just seems tasteless to me. Sorry for the rant, I don't like coming to the forums to be negative because I think it feeds back into the community, and it's threads like these that make me think that way. So you were okay with a thread where everyone were raging on Wyrd, but when a thread is made to make the company aware that we are all willing to pay a premium for a larger version, that is where you draw the line? That seems a bit odd to me, this is more or less a free survey for Wyrd... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Uktena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Uktena You finally found someone who agreed with you Fetid (this is a joke btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 So you were okay with a thread where everyone were raging on Wyrd, but when a thread is made to make the company aware that we are all willing to pay a premium for a larger version, that is where you draw the line? That seems a bit odd to me, this is more or less a free survey for Wyrd... I meant to include that asking for a Nightmare version was a great idea and I found that portion of this thread very productive. You'll find my "like" under the responses promoting this idea. FWIW I tend to agree with Fetid on most things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 I meant to include that asking for a Nightmare version was a great idea and I found that portion of this thread very productive. You'll find my "like" under the responses promoting this idea. FWIW I tend to agree with Fetid on most things. Fair enough I just dont see the whole "pressuring an innocent company" that I feel you were going for. The entire post the OP made was simply to make Wyrd aware that people were more then happy to pay more money for a bigger version, so I dont understand where all your "rage"(for a lack of better english words >>) came from. And sorry for my bad joke, he was just kicked around a bit in the other thread, so I found his eagerness a bit amusing with all the when someone finally agreed with him... meant no harm with it Edit: and what the heck does FWIW stand for? O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 For what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 I am all in favour of a Nightmare Edition Nekima at an exaggerated scale. (I'd really rather it wasn't a pneumatic pinup, though - make her look like a warrior, not a porn star.) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatsInTheWalls Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Can't she look like a warrior porn star? While I almost always agree that fantasy women are over-sexualized, somehow I feel like it fits Nekima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Everyone's welcome to their own preferences, I'm just expressing mine. (For the record, to "Can't she look like a warrior porn star?" I'd say, in general, no. The requirements to succeed in those careers are, generally speaking, very different and at least partially mutually exclusive. There's always the "But Nephilim can look like whatever they want!" argument, but if that were invoked I'd want to be shown a compelling character study where Nekima decides to look hyper-sexualised by her own choice, for her own reasons - otherwise, my assumption would be that she would focus on looking physically intimidating, not alluring.) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatsInTheWalls Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Fair enough. 99 times out of 100 I'd be right there with you. I'm not actually sure why I'm not this time... Either way, we can both agree that a larger Nightmare Nekima would be welcomed with delight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'd love a bigger Nekima model. Give me the opportunity and I will buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Why does oversexualisation fit nekima? She is a warrior of brute force. I feel like she sticks out like a sore thumb. She feels very generic Sexy demon chick and not very malifaux. Always thought she looked more like a warhammer mini. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Worlds Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 The new Nekima miniature is beautiful but definitley not big enough. I would certainly buy a nightmare/larger version in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 The thing I find however is that wyrd knows people will buy a nightmare Nekima. Just like people bought a nightmare whiskey golem, or the nightmare teddy, and nightmare justice. The only nightmare set I don't believe has sold well, and I could be wrong, was the hanging tree set. Personally I hope the factions that don't have nightmare models, ie the arcanists and ten thunders get nightmare models first. Ressers and NB have the most and I personally don't think they need more at the present. But if they brought a nightmare nekima out in 3 years I'd buy one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmod Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thank you so much for your input Justin, both I and I am sure everyone else are happy to hear your view on this matter. It would however be even more awesome if you could get someone from your production department to finally answer the simple question, if the scale is as intended or if they made a mistake. A simple yes or no answer could put all of these doubts to rest- we might not be happy with the answer we get, but at least all the bickering and discussions can be put to rest. And I have no doubt you guys are listening to everything we say and complain about, which is why I am proud to be a henchman and spread the word of Malifaux... even if we dont always agree on everything Absolutely not, if previous experience is anything to go by! Wyrd recalled the giant Victorias, and in the discussions about Nekima the Victorias set has been shown as an example of Wyrd not admitting mistakes. If Nekima is a design error and Wyrd can afford to replace it they should definitely speak up, otherwise they'll only get more grief by making a statement. If they say this is how it's meant to be, just like the kneeling Death Marshall, a lot of people will "know" this is not the case, and use Wyrd's own forum to tell the world that Wyrd Miniatures is constantly lying to their customer base. What would that solve? I definitely agree that an alternative Nekima would be great, and I'd be willing to pay extra for it (Nightmare edition, Kickstarter, or otherwise). But with the debates about "quality control" we've seen on the boards this fall I can totally see why Wyrd would NOT do any of this unfortunately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 The goal of this petition is to provide a small idea of the support that the community is ready to give to Wyrd to actually do something about Nekima. I don't think we put wyrd under more pressure with this isolated thread (Nb forums) than they put themselves under in the big picture...they want to succeed and they want to please their fanbase. I don't think i push it much by saying we -all- want them to succeed. The issue with badly scaled models is that it'd cost them money to change things, and it's never easy for a company to take a hit...but there seems to be more like me who have a will to help "make things right". I'm just trying to put the possibilities available to Wyrd under the spotlight...to perhaps make things happen, and get something real out of it. Since other discussion threads were locked, the mods won't allow more debate on the whole affair (so please don't)...but i assume we can still put an X to support the ideas exposed in this thread and show our desire for action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Why does oversexualisation fit nekima? She is a warrior of brute force. I feel like she sticks out like a sore thumb. She feels very generic Sexy demon chick and not very malifaux. Always thought she looked more like a warhammer mini. The first Nekima had the rule Irresistable and the second has the Trigger The Bloody Beauty. Both incarnations have had something related to an attractive appearance and if she can look like whatever she wants without changing her combat stats why wouldn't she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 The first Nekima had the rule Irresistable and the second has the Trigger The Bloody Beauty. Both incarnations have had something related to an attractive appearance and if she can look like whatever she wants without changing her combat stats why wouldn't she? Can Nephilim really change what they look like on a whim? The impression I get (I haven't read all the old books though) is that different Nephilim develop differently during the last stage (young to mature) and will look like their "type". Sure Lilith has taken to look like a human well after she matured, but have we any idea how many babies she had to sacrifice to do it? And are their look really irrelevant? It's not like they are Kryptonians. My impression is that the regular matures are muscular to hit stuff harder, not to look good on the beach. And before someone brings up human sized Lilith's combat prowess, remember that she hits exactly as hard as a normal human master with a two handed sword (Lady J). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4st4f4n Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Why does oversexualisation fit nekima? She is a warrior of brute force. I feel like she sticks out like a sore thumb. She feels very generic Sexy demon chick and not very malifaux. Always thought she looked more like a warhammer mini. It's not actually easy to define what "feels Malifaux": These feel pretty consistent, and very Malifaux indeed:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5B029NVZve0/TIFYQVuHW9I/AAAAAAAACkA/pfzmOvwNXpo/s1600/lilith1.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4C3jXw4cWAY/Ue6gn1lTvMI/AAAAAAAAJnM/YD8sMNMorYg/s1600/Lilith+colour.pnghttp://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq299/eastern_heretic/malifaux_lilith11.jpg~originalhttp://wyrd-games.net/community/uploads/monthly_08_2010/post-3214-13911920813646.jpghttp://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Lilith-Avatar-of-Natures-Malevolence.jpg Fact that you don't like the "classical" representation of demons with perversion and sexual-alluring , is a different argument, that can be accepted as it is. To me, Nekima isn't a wrong representation, as a contender for the Mother of Demons title, I can accept her appearance, like A.Jolie as Grendel's Mother in Beowulf (and I may be the only one in the world not attracted by A.Jolie herself at all) The goal of this petition is to provide a small idea of the support that the community is ready to give to Wyrd to actually do something about Nekima. I don't think we put wyrd under more pressure with this isolated thread (Nb forums) than they put themselves under in the big picture...they want to succeed and they want to please their fanbase. I don't think i push it much by saying we -all- want them to succeed. The issue with badly scaled models is that it'd cost them money to change things, and it's never easy for a company to take a hit...but there seems to be more like me who have a will to help "make things right". I'm just trying to put the possibilities available to Wyrd under the spotlight...to perhaps make things happen, and get something real out of it. Since other discussion threads were locked, the mods won't allow more debate on the whole affair (so please don't)...but i assume we can still put an X to support the ideas exposed in this thread and show our desire for action. For this sake, you have my vote, as from the first thread, but I would have suggested to start this thread as a Survey, so that we should just hit a button to sign, without the risk of building up another multiple pages thread, as I'm contributing to do in this exact moment... :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 You are right, but i just lack forum-fu to make a decent survey. I figure a bit of off topic is ok, besides Justin did some too and that's welcome (he's welcome to add his vote too, of course )...as long as people remember why the thread is there and still contribute to the initial proposition, it's all good. To those who have already voiced their support, maybe check with your gaming circles...see if there are others who feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 The first Nekima had the rule Irresistable and the second has the Trigger The Bloody Beauty. Both incarnations have had something related to an attractive appearance and if she can look like whatever she wants without changing her combat stats why wouldn't she? Well frankly... why would she? From what we know of her character, she wants to be feared and respected as a warrior and leader. Being sexually attractive doesn't help that aim, and may even be detrimental. She tries to get her way through violence and intimidation, not seduction or intrigue. And who says it wouldn't affect her ability to fight? For someone who focuses on violence above all else, it would seem strange not to optimise her body for combat. Also note that "beautiful" does not necessarily mean "sexy". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus Mcmold Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 I prefer the new sculpt from the old gangly metal one, which I didn't get for the reason I was certain they'd fix the weird look with the new edition. She was a bit too big in the previous edition and might be a bit too small in this one. I actually prefer the new one because of the design and it doesn't bother me to a degree I won't play with her. I'm a complete sucker for the fluff and as I remember that she should be big and fierce. On the other hand she might grow phiscally as her rage grows. I'd buy a limited, bigger more fierce looking nightmare edition Nekima though. It'd be cool to have a badass powerful looking female demon for a change, that doesn't look like just like an alt Mature Nephilim with curves. Lilith got a dress change, it'd be cool if Nekima would have a similar styling. I'm agianst typical oversexualization of warrior women like it's the case with new Ronins. I'm against "sex sells" and it really bothered me when I played Confrontation. On the other hand I like the S&M design of the Lelu (both concept arts) and Lilitu and it looks great in a kitchy sort of way on demons and I might like it if it's over the top and if it isn't completely tasteless. I prefer the old art for Nekima, but I also prefer the new mini design because of her pose and I might convert some more interesting clothes, or armor, or something on her... I'll see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laocorne Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 So if the lead designer doesn't know what scale the models are intended to be, who does? A lot of the frustration seen in regard to Nekima isn't just about her; this has been building with every screwy release. Since some are, apparently, intentional and some aren't, we can't know which it is unless someone officially tells us. I usually just don't buy the problem sets--I've avoided buying the new Marshals and gremlins because of mismatched sizing. This one took me by surprise though. Every time it happens, customer faith in the brand sinks more. Edit: I also don't buy the "it's just abstract on the table" bit. I don't know of any other miniature range who does that. They tend to be designed with a scale in mind, don't they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 So if the lead designer doesn't know what scale the models are intended to be, who does? Lead designer = lead rules writer. And Nekima had her rules updated from Ht4 down to Ht3, which the new model is in scale with. I don't think there's any issue with her scale, ruleswise (eg, the model is consistent with the rules). The other scale issues seem to be what Justin was talking about (such as crouching models being huge) more than this particular model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laocorne Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Lead designer = lead rules writer. And Nekima had her rules updated from Ht4 down to Ht3, which the new model is in scale with. I don't think there's any issue with her scale, ruleswise (eg, the model is consistent with the rules). The other scale issues seem to be what Justin was talking about (such as crouching models being huge) more than this particular model. ...Except she's now smaller than a Ht 2 Barbaros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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