Metal Age vs Plasti-Models... let's be honest...

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Basically, I am just wondering about the degree of conservativism pertaining to this topic. I acknowledge the "no metal model available", "can't find metal", or "I like sculpt better" argument - but, I mean, if you were really waiting until primordial magic or soulstone miners are plastic before you buy them, you're probably doing something wrong

Also, 50% (!!!) off on metal models during Black Friday is huge and I can't see a lot of people sticking to their guns when you can get get something like a Widow Weaver for like 4$ (oooooor not, as it seems ) or pick up a Pigapult or Nekima for half.

Also, not sure how other people utilize there gaming materials, but at home I have a premium game table with premium terrain and I use premium crews. Buuuuuuut if I go to the game store I whip out dry-brushed to hell JD or creepy old "pimp" Levy (thanks to hats of malifaux ) and some terraclips.

Basically what I am getting at is - using a crew of more robust and solid minis (when possible), or just proxies, for games away from home or a loooooong distance away is what I try to do so if a breakage happens I don't instantly lose my shit... just a thought.

I hear a lot of "i'm waiting til plastics" that may or may not be warranted... I dunno guys, do you really think a 30+ piece peacekeeper is going to be that much better than the current metal one? (or look that much better)

I also consider things like aesthetics, don't get me wrong, but as mentioned, that's not always the case and that fishing gremlin ain't never leaving the house if I can help it.

Where do you really stand on this argument?

[Dirial]

Hm, I really don't get the "robust" argument. My plastic models never break. Well, they break off the base if I drop them off the table (as I did with my Dita ), but aside from that, they are super robust. My metals on the other hand, break all the time. Colour breaks off, arms break off, they twist and turn. So, I don't get it.

 

Aside from that, I like building the plastics way more. With good plastic cement, they go together like a charm. The metals are just a chore.

 

Also I like the aesthetics better.

[Bengt]

I'm only going to spend so much on the game, so I try to be selective what models I get. The ones I do get need to live up to a certain standard on both the aesthetic, hobby and game play scale. I so much prefer to work with plastic over metal that it's not even funny, so a metal model would have to really shine on the other two scales to be considered. If the local Malifaux scene was more... I almost say existing... I might be more tempted to get something for mostly game play reasons, but as it isn't, hobby and aesthetics weighs heavy.

[Ausplosions]

Some people prefer metal. Some people prefer plastic. One is not in any way better than the other. I personally prefer plastic, it is less prone to coming apart when dropped, doesn't need pinning, paint doesn't rub off. Is easier to paint.

But again, all this is just my opinion.

Also, do we need another metal Vs plastic match?

[lusciousmccabe]

Hm, I really don't get the "robust" argument. My plastic models never break. Well, they break off the base if I drop them off the table (as I did with my Dita ), but aside from that, they are super robust. My metals on the other hand, break all the time. Colour breaks off, arms break off, they twist and turn. So, I don't get it.

 

Aside from that, I like building the plastics way more. With good plastic cement, they go together like a charm. The metals are just a chore.

 

I think it depends more on the sculpt than anything else. Tiny thin fiddly-bits on a plastic models have a risk of breaking, but they'll always bend on a metal model. A lot of the old one or two piece metal models are pretty sturdy, but it's not like the current Witchling Stalkers are going to break either.

[Dirial]

I think it depends more on the sculpt than anything else. Tiny thin fiddly-bits on a plastic models have a risk of breaking, but they'll always bend on a metal model. A lot of the old one or two piece metal models are pretty sturdy, but it's not like the current Witchling Stalkers are going to break either.

 

I transport my models carefully (in a case filled with foam), and I never had a thin thing like Lady Justice's sword or McCabe's whip break. I guess if I threw them around the table or transported them in a bucket (or just played really drunk) that would be a problem. I just don't.

[LordFezzington]

Plastic for sure, but for a couple of exceptions (Bishop for example - the hair on the plastic is terrible frankly!). But anyway, this argument is becoming increasingly redundant given that it is no longer possible to buy most of the metals at retail. Can't get them from Wyrd, so you're left with any stock that LGSs might have, which won't include in demand models like Colette, Widow Weaver etc.

 

It'll be plastic for all soon enough. Hopefully...

[dgraz]

Well, they break off the base if I drop them off the table (as I did with my Dita ), 

 

Why? You'd have to hit mine with a hammer.

[EnternalVoid]

I will echo it is all preferences, the personal sorts.  I myself prefer Plastic as a material.  But I like the look of some of the older metal models over the new plastic versions.  I also like that many of the metal models did not have the radical poses that many of the new plastic models have.  I really like the new Rusty Alice model just looking at the rendering of it, I did not mind the old metal one but I like the look of the plastic one more.  Problem is I like the original Levi model over the new plastic rendering.  So for me it really is on a model to model case, some I like the look of the plastic ones better, others the original metals *often the poses of the original metal ones*.  But like many things, you ask a hundred people and you will likely get a hundred different answers.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

I didn't intend this to be a "which is better" plastic vs metal post - my focus is on the "I absolutely will never buy a metal" mentality. I get the impression this comes from the newer crowd of gamers who aren't used to them, but not always I guess. From what I've experienced before, most people are just simply indifferent. I just hear a lot of "I'll wait for plastics" that I don't hear in other games or pretty much at all in the past. Besides, I'd rather pin a metal model than take off the mold lines and assemble a 53 piece plastic model.

As far as robustness, If you use a combination of greenstuff, pinning and super glue - the seating of parts are very secure and practically permanent. If you do it properly the joints will be very strong and you should have minimal breakage. Metal is easier and faster to clean up and assemble. Also, plastic breaks are difficult to fix and permanent. Metal bends and the sculpts are more together not to mention the heft makes tip-overs and drops less likely if anything.

You don't have to throw them around and bang them while drunk to damage them... those little thin plastic pieces can be damaged from the slightest mishandling or taking them in-out of foam cases or just nicked with a fingernail or a small bend.

[Dirial]

You don't have to throw them around and bang them while drunk to damage them... those little thin plastic pieces can be damaged from the slightest mishandling or taking them in-out of foam cases or just nicked with a fingernail or a small bend.

 

It's just not my experience.

 

 

Metal is easier and faster to clean up and assemble.

 

Also not my experience.

 

 

Why? You'd have to hit mine with a hammer.

 

I thought that, too. Then I dropped mine and she broke off cleanly. I was devastated, then I glued her back together and it was all well. Ironically, it was the metal inlay that broke off, the plastic miniature was totally unscathed.

[Bengt]

I didn't intend this to be a "which is better" plastic vs metal post - my focus is on the "I absolutely will never buy a metal" mentality. I get the impression this comes from the newer crowd of gamers who aren't used to them, but not always I guess. From what I've experienced before, most people are just simply indifferent. I just hear a lot of "I'll wait for plastics" that I don't hear in other games or pretty much at all in the past. Besides, I'd rather pin a metal model than take off the mold lines and assemble a 53 piece plastic model.

As far as robustness, If you use a combination of greenstuff, pinning and super glue - the seating of parts are very secure and practically permanent. If you do it properly the joints will be very strong and you should have minimal breakage. Metal is easier and faster to clean up and assemble. Also, plastic breaks are difficult to fix and permanent. Metal bends and the sculpts are more together not to mention the heft makes tip-overs and drops less likely if anything.

You don't have to throw them around and bang them while drunk to damage them... those little thin plastic pieces can be damaged from the slightest mishandling or taking them in-out of foam cases or just nicked with a fingernail or a small bend.

I started playing miniature games in the early 90s, during 40k Rogue Trader, there was very few troop types in plastic back then, basic troops and maybe a vehicle. Anything elite or special was metal, so I have a long experience with metal and I'm just tired of the idiosyncrasies, so I'm very keen on plastic.

 

The relative robustness is not to so apparent with man sized 30 mm models but still there, I'm dropped a lot metal dudes over the years and very often anything thin (e.g. weapons) bends, sometimes they snap. Plastic dudes mostly just bounce around. It's much worse with larger stuff, I swiped a plastic eldar war walker off the desk a while back, the base came off. A metal model that size would be a mess, it's the weight you know, the momentum is much greater.

 

It takes me a lot less time to prepare a joint for plastic gluing than it does to pin+green stuff+super glue. Metal has just as many mould lines as plastic and they are harder so takes more energy to remove. Granted plastic kits usually have more pieces than metal kits. But then when you do build a metal model with tiny pieces and you have to pin them with the *@¤% 0.5 mm bits that break when a gnat sneezes... Yes, I'm talking about Infinity with little vanes and stuff all over the place...

 

Deep breath. Anyway, I prefer plastic and will stop ranting now... at least for a while.

[lusciousmccabe]

 

It takes me a lot less time to prepare a joint for plastic gluing than it does to pin+green stuff+super glue. Metal has just as many mould lines as plastic and they are harder so takes more energy to remove. Granted plastic kits usually have more pieces than metal kits. But then when you do build a metal model with tiny pieces and you have to pin them with the *@¤% 0.5 mm bits that break when a gnat sneezes... Yes, I'm talking about Infinity with little vanes and stuff all over the place...

 

Hah, it's funny you mention that. When I started out playing Infinity I was so frustrated with the metal models I started pining for plastic Tyranids I could glue together whatever way and cut up to repose no bother. Then I got so used to working with metal that when I picked up some plastic Malifaux I was like "What is this, why is it so light?". 

[dgraz]

Other than starting in the early 90's (I was late 90's) I completely agree with everything Bengt said and feel pretty much the same.

[Vermicious Knid]

I hear a lot of "i'm waiting til plastics" that may or may not be warranted... I dunno guys, do you really think a 30+ piece peacekeeper is going to be that much better than the current metal one? (or look that much better)

Before I write on what I quoted you on, I would first like to say that I find the concept of taking substandard models on trips, just because you are afraid of your "good" ones get damaged is not really a valid concern, unless we are talking truly prize winning stuff here. If damage is truly a problem, then I would suggest that you might not be packing your models correctly?

Now, as far as your quote goes. I find it strange that you used the Peacekeeper of all models to illustrate your point. To answer your questions - yes I absolutely believe that a 30+ piece plastic peacekeeper will be a better model than the metal one, and yes I believe that it will look better as well.

--Large models are always better done in plastic, just from a weight consideration

--Robots or anything that's composed mostly of mechanical looking parts are probably the single best types of models to be cast from plastic. The sharp edges and mechanical joints are far more effectively created with a digital CAD program and are best realized in plastic

--The original metal Peacekeeper is probably the single worst looking construct that Wyrd has created. No offense to the original artist - the model was made in Wyrd's early days and they were basically making do with the resources they had, but the model shows it's age drastically. It's overall appearance is quite goofy looking, and the sculptor did a really poor job of hiding the bits and materials he used to create the master. When I can look at a model, and instantly know what size of brass rods he used to create the Peacekeeper's spindly arms...this is a piece that is not held to the same level of professionalism that the modern models are.

--The new plastic constructs in the Hoffman box are massive improvements of the original metals - despite their overall "look" being basically the same. There is every reason to suspect that the Peacekeeper will be improved in the same degree.

So anyhow like I said - I get that you weren't trying to start up a big discussion about the Peacekeeper specifically. I just think that using it as your reference here kind of undermines the point you are trying to make, since the new plastic will be such an obviously superior model that it's easily worth the wait

[lusciousmccabe]

--Robots or anything that's composed mostly of mechanical looking parts are probably the single best types of models to be cast from plastic. The sharp edges and mechanical joints are far more effectively created with a digital CAD program and are best realized in plastic

 

That didn't stop Lazarus looking like an ill-conceived Mattel reject. 

 

 

--The new plastic constructs in the Hoffman box are massive improvements of the original metals - despite their overall "look" being basically the same. There is every reason to suspect that the Peacekeeper will be improved in the same degree.

 

The Hunter's look changed quite a lot. It's too sci-fi for me but I know a lot of people love it and it's certainly a nice model in the abstract. Guardian and Watcher will probably be nicer to work with in plastic and look pretty much the same.

 

I do have a soft spot for the old clunky looking peacekeeper but if the new sculpt does the artwork justice he's going to be pretty awesome with that big iron giant grin on him. I still would have ordered an old one half price though if the shipping wasn't horrendous.

[Rathnard]

 

do you really think a 30+ piece peacekeeper is going to be that much better than the current metal one? (or look that much better)

 

Yes. Absolutely.

 

That didn't stop Lazarus looking like an ill-conceived Mattel reject. 

 

Which is why I converted him;

 

 

To get back to the original post, as a rule of thumb I prefer plastics because they're easier to convert (see above). However that doesn't mean that I'd always take the plastic option over the metal one. Aethetics can play a big part in this (if I like the look of metal one more, I'll take that), and to a lesser degree, so does transportability. 

 

I prefer to use models that are both compact enough to transport (ie. no crazy poses) and that don't break easily. This is a problem for both metals and plastics. For instance I've already had breakages for my plastic Misaki crew (the pole arms for both Misaki and Yamaziko), and Yan Lo's crew is a pain purely because he takes up so much space in my bag. Metal Blood Vik's sword and the Blood Shaman's dagger also keep breaking and I've avoided both metal Nekima and the Peacekeeper after hearing the horror stories from players who have tried keeping them in one piece (and in Nekima's case, she chews up ALOT of foam space).

 

So basically, my model priorities come down to aethetics, convertability, durability and transportability. With the exception of convertability, both metals and plastics can be better in each category. It just depends on which model you're talking about. 

[paradoxstorm]

I have only assembled a handful of plastics so far in large part because every time I do I swear I will never do it again.  Sadly, with so many models only available in plastic, I know that I will have to continue working with plastics.

 

They look nice, but everyone who talks about them being easier to work with lives in an entirely different world than I do.

 

I have smallish hands and still find many of the pieces too small and fiddly for me to deal with.  I've got three different tweezers that I keep trying just to see if I can get one of them to work well, but so far no luck.  Give me a pin drill and some wire any day--at least I can get the pieces where they belong.  

 

And sooooo many pieces!  I do rather enjoy the assembly work, but how many pieces does a model really need to come in?  

 

I have yet to even consider whether or not there are assembly instructions for a metal model while I seem to absolutely need them with many plastics.  Sadly Mei Feng (my most recent project) doesn't have instructions and the "D," "E," and "F," labels on the sprue didn't always seem to match up with other pieces using the same letter label.  (Maybe they did, but it sure felt like I needed to mix-n-match on the rail workers.)

 

A planned project is finding/making a mold for lead weights that I can add to the bases of the plastic models I do have.  I hate, hate, hate, the lack of weight in those things.  A gaming piece should have some weight to it, like the metal models.

 

And finally, when the zombie apocalypse comes, I'll be melting my metal models down into ammo while the plastic lovers are getting eaten!

 

I too am waiting for the plastics, but in my case I am hoping some of the impossible to get metal models get dumped for cheap by those who love their plastics.  

[Adran]

I assumed that a lot of the "I'll wait for the plastics" cry is because they will then come with the cards (for people that haven't bought the Arsenal decks) and that they will look like the cards. (which can really help new players to crews, and crews with multiples of the same model)

 

From a practical stand point, I don't care too much. I like the Metals, but they have a few nasty small joints, and cutting off the tab for basing is annoying. I like the plastics, but they have a tendancy to break on long spindly poles when the metal would bend instead, and once they've gone once, they are't really ever going to fix properly.

[dgraz]

 I like the plastics, but they have a tendancy to break on long spindly poles when the metal would bend instead, and once they've gone once, they are't really ever going to fix properly.

Disagree. Plastic Cement is a beautiful thing. I've repaired long spindly bits and they're fine today.

[Scott-S6]

Disagree. Plastic Cement is a beautiful thing. I've repaired long spindly bits and they're fine today.

Absolutely. A broken plastic piece can always be fixed - a fine metal piece breaks and it will never be as strong again.

[Adran]

Disagree. Plastic Cement is a beautiful thing. I've repaired long spindly bits and they're fine today.

You're a better gluer than me. Every single time I have tried to fix a pole it ends up off kilter by the the end.

I will agree that once the Metal finally snaps, I can expect exactly the same problem (and a more difficult solution), but its malability give me much more leeway before I get there.

[dgraz]

You're a better gluer than me. Every single time I have tried to fix a pole it ends up off kilter by the the end.

I will agree that once the Metal finally snaps, I can expect exactly the same problem (and a more difficult solution), but its malability give me much more leeway before I get there.

It's just a matter of being careful. If you can't get the pieces to line up just right then it's probably because the break isn't smooth. On larger pieces this is less of an issue because you can usually line up anything jagged but on smaller pieces it can be harder to see. You can lightly file the break to get a more smooth join, you just need to be very careful to keep it perpendicular and use a very light touch. Like everything else, you get better with practice.

[Vidd]

Malifaux plastics have really impressed me but there's no doubt they're a bit more fragile than they need to be. e.g. the Gremlin guns which are oddly longer and thinner than their metal counterparts.

 

That said, I simply wouldn't game with metal models unless I had to, any more. They're a lot more susceptible to dings and there's nothing worse than a lovely painted model with bits of the metal showing through.

[Paddywhack]

I was torn on the plastics at first, but now I really like them. There are still some issues where I feel the detail isn't as good overall, but I'm finding that less and less with the newer plastics. And while some things seem very thin, this plastic I am finding very flexible, meaning it is less likely to snap. Working with some of the old metals again (10T Brothers for instance) some the thin metal bits are awful - they bend like crazy. I only got the metal due to the Black Friday sale and not knowing when the Brothers would be out in plastic.

 

So I guess I fall on the Plastic is better side, though it took some time to change my mind.