The op cheat sheet

[Hateful Darkblack]

Leveticus doesn't do huge damage, but it's so consistent. Ca 7, positive twist to attack and damage, 2/3/4 damage that ignores Armor and and similar abilities and Hard to Kill and Hard to Wound and so on. You get positive twists easily, and with an Upgrade you can do half the opponent's Wd instead on moderate or severe damage.

 

If you can get close, you can rely on killing models.

 

Surviving Leveticus: Get behind cover. It helps a lot.

[Hateful Darkblack]

The Hanged

 

If you see your opponent is choosing Resser, you kind of need condition removal. It'll help with Poison, too. THe Guild have Witchling stalkers. Resser have Chiaki. Gremlins can take McTavish with an Upgrade. Ten Thunders can take a Monk of Low River. And everyone can take Johan.

 

 

It's not fun to have to hire Crew to counter what you expect from an opponent, but Condition removal is just generally so good that it's often worth it anyway.

[Math Mathonwy]

Um, you shoot them a few times and take all their Wds away so they die. What part were you confused about?

I guess mostly just about how this is different from, e.g., Perdita or Ophelia. Or Vikkies or Lady Justice when up close. I mean, the most common examples of "the solution is to blow them away with X - just like it is the solution for any problem in Malifaux" are with McM Expunge and Levi, but I don't quite understand how they are seen as immensely more destructive than the other four I mentioned.

[izikial]

They were questioning Levi as Levi dosent ignore df triggers so the rider still reduces his dmg, not sure how it works with his half hp upgrade

[Myyrä]

Leveticus has an upgrade that gives his ranged attack trigger:
Unnatural Wasting: After flipping or cheating moderate or severe damage, this Attack deals an amount of damage to the target equal to half of the target's current  remaining Wounds (rounded up) instead of its usual damage.
 
Add that to the fact that the attack itself ignores all damage reduction, Hard to Kill and Hard to Wound and that Leveticus can get for Attack and Damage by suffering 2 damage himself.

[Myyrä]

They were questioning Levi as Levi dosent ignore df triggers so the rider still reduces his dmg, not sure how it works with his half hp upgrade

Leveticus' Unmaking targets Wp and ignores all damage reduction, so the riders' defence trigger is twice useless against him.

[izikial]

The 4 you mentioned math can do some huge damage, the reason Levi is known as a super damage guy is the continual damage, and repossitioning for no ap.

An example, against an armor 3 htw htk model with 12 wds

He can pop up near it out of a waif so he didn't need to move, use the half hp upgrade and channel to nock them down to 6

Then 2 moderates or a severe and a weak and there dead, with channel your plus to hit and to damage so you can almost always cheat your damage

Others can do more impressive flourishes and fancy smancy stuff,

But Levi just cranks out completely unstoppable damage over and over,

He can kill the toughest modles in the game easyer than anyone else

[Math Mathonwy]

Between Trixie, Lenny, Saddle and Threatening Gun Sammy Ophelia isn't exactly difficult to move around, she gets positive flips out the wazoo and her damage track is nothing short of utterly insane. Viks are super mobile, ignore all the usual defenses, have minimum damage 5 and kill everything around the target as well.

I dunno, no one around here plays Levi, so maybe he is an entirely different kettle of fish. For killing Riders turn three onwards I do agree that Levi is a better choice, though.

[Adran]

I don't think Levi is particually special in the killing, he is just consistant, with very little that will affect his kill speed. He is probably less killy that a Vik, but he is trickier to remove and easier to position. Will happily kill any 14 wd model in 3 ap, and not much can stop him.

Likewise, Expuunge is a consistant damage dealing that most defences can't stop.

They aren't particully better than any you've listed,

[Myyrä]

Between Trixie, Lenny, Saddle and Threatening Gun Sammy Ophelia isn't exactly difficult to move around, she gets positive flips out the wazoo and her damage track is nothing short of utterly insane. Viks are super mobile, ignore all the usual defenses, have minimum damage 5 and kill everything around the target as well.

I dunno, no one around here plays Levi, so maybe he is an entirely different kettle of fish. For killing Riders turn three onwards I do agree that Levi is a better choice, though.

The scary thing about Levi is the fact that he ignores almost all possible defences. He can quite easily dispatch targets that are practically unkillable for the Viks or Ophelia. He also happens have better mobility than either of them.

[Math Mathonwy]

The scary thing about Levi is the fact that he ignores almost all possible defences. He can quite easily dispatch targets that are practically unkillable for the Viks or Ophelia. He also happens have better mobility than either of them.

Things that are unkillable for Ophelia: Riders, maybe - certainly late in the game. Levi, Tara, and sorta Molly. (OK, eternal versions of Huggy and Juju, A&D, and Bete but those don't really count and are just as unkillable to almost everything else). But fair enough.

[Myyrä]

Things that are unkillable for Ophelia: Riders, maybe - certainly late in the game. Levi, Tara, and sorta Molly. (OK, eternal versions of Huggy and Juju, A&D, and Bete but those don't really count and are just as unkillable to almost everything else). But fair enough.

There's also Colette and many others that aren't exactly unkillable but would take about 2 full activations of shooting from Ophelia. The only defences that help against Leveticus are high Wp, Redirecting triggers and Impossible to Wound. Even high Wd pool doesn't really help against him, unless it's combined with something else.

[Math Mathonwy]

There's also Colette and many others that aren't exactly unkillable but would take about 2 full activations of shooting from Ophelia. The only defences that help against Leveticus are high Wp, Redirecting triggers and Impossible to Wound. Even high Wd pool doesn't really help against him, unless it's combined with something else.

I didn't purposefully list, e.g., Misaki since she is similarly impossible for Levi, but Colette I actually remembered wrong (I thought her Trigger would work against Levi but it won't). The same is true of Nico.

[izikial]

Bit of track, I ment this article to help people who are having un fun play experiences

But at least there is a lively disscussion

[Math Mathonwy]

Bit of track, I ment this article to help people who are having un fun play experiences

But at least there is a lively disscussion

Aye, sorry about that. OTOH this was quite a thorough analysis on why Levi is always one possible answer when something seems insurmountable in Malifaux

[zFiend]

From what I've seen and played against in no particular order:

 

Vikkies - They just decimate everything without much you can do about it. 

Perdita - She's just ridiculous, I've played her once or twice and now she's on the shelf for a while as she's not pleasant to play against which I've done quite some as well.

Colette - Just pure filth. Which brings me to my next one.

Mech Rider - Summoning with a low card, dropping scheme markers here and there and tough enough to kill to keep doing her thing. 

Hanged - They really shouldn't be doing all they do, stop healing, drop to half wounds and at a range, which is the reason I barely use them at all, they're a tad bit too filthy. 

Austringers - Sh7 ignoring cover and los just shouldn't have happened. 

 

Funnily enough, Leveticus even though he is able to just melt a model away a turn has never felt overwhelming to me. Somehow he just seems to be in good balance and I have played quite a few games against Leveticus (then again it might be that the opponent happens to be a great guy). Also I hated the Gremlins with a vengeance but after many many talks and arguments with Math and finally succumbing to getting them on the table myself, they are quite okay now. Sure they have some filthery up their sleeve but they are usually quite easy to dispatch off and you are helping quite a lot in that yourself. 

[SpectreEliteGaming]

I am reading these comments and every single time I see mention of the hanged as being "not that bad of a model" I shake my head. Clearly you haven't played against Hanged in a JD crew. When declaring outcasts, your opponent won't be as prone to auto-include condition removal as when you declare ressers, as well.

If you're looking for a more aggressive elite Daw crew, take hangedx2+trapperx2 and ama...

On the same note - I don't believe singular models are nearly as scary as the combination of "filthy" models...

For example, Hanged, Illuminated, Slop Haulers, Riders, are filthy "on card" or when talking Theoryfaux...

4xStitched+2xIlluminated or Teddy+metal gamin or Hanged+ama are filthy in the game itself...

I play ultra-cheese and would never "not take a model because its too good" - call it filthy or bad taste but you best believe I will choose the best most powerful and most appropriate model all the time, every time. I don't get complaints usually either... its more "wow that looks solid and i'd love to try that out" not "screw that this game is broken."

"Can I fit deuce trappers in this list" is often my first thought when deciding crew

The reason Levi is so strong, imo, isn't even for the reasons mentioned - "one man apocaylpse " is his thing - that's just what he does. The reason is a combination of being an aggressive master (control the tempo) who has a large hiring pool. Take advantage of that hiring pool to get the best results and tailor make your list the best you can ( provided that you are actually capable of playing those models to a sufficient degree )

[lusciousmccabe]

 

Funnily enough, Leveticus even though he is able to just melt a model away a turn has never felt overwhelming to me. Somehow he just seems to be in good balance and I have played quite a few games against Leveticus (then again it might be that the opponent happens to be a great guy). 

 

I think he's in a nice spot where he will melt some of your stuff into slag and disappear but doesn't really stop you from doing stuff otherwise. It's quite nasty but quicker and less frustrating than something that kills 1-2 of your guys and engages or debuffs a bunch of others so you feel like you can't do anything until it's dead.

[bertmac]

Viks are the one thing I really don't enjoy playing against you have to address blood so it's a matter of waiting till she flies over and then getting on with the rest of the game.

[Kadeton]

Viks are the one thing I really don't enjoy playing against you have to address blood so it's a matter of waiting till she flies over and then getting on with the rest of the game.

 

Yeah, I stopped using the Viks in games where I wanted to have fun, unless my opponents requested it. It's not that they're unbalanced, it's that their games are almost always really decisive - either you destroy so much of your opponent's crew that they can't mount a viable counter-offensive and it's all over bar the crying, or you flub something along the way and they fold like wet paper bags. Either way it's a crushing victory for someone - close games are much more fun.

[izikial]

I think there is a big difference between torniments and flgs, at you flgs if you took pandy collet or Hamlin in 1.5 the People just stoped wanting to play you, and so never learnt how to beat them, tournament players however have to play them to learn how to beat them and grow to a point where its just like playing anyone els