Forget effectiveness, are the Vikis fun to play with/against?

[kmdl1066]

I bought a selection of models a year and a half ago based purely on look & fluff.  Where I was living at the time had an active Malifaux community who assured me the Vikis were a great choice. Never actually played a game.

 

But now I'm in a different place and just starting with another player who has never played before.  There are a couple other people who are waiting until we've figured it out so we can teach them. I've used VonSchill in the two half games we've had, but the Vikis are primed for painting. However, reading about the Vikis at pullmyfinger, it doesn't seem like they will actually make for a fun game for newbies. I also have Misaki and already have painted Ronin. 

 

Would Misaki make for a more enjoyable game for casual players than Viktoria?

[MasterDisaster]

Are the Viks fun to play with? HELL YEAH!! Viktoria is best girl! 

 

Are the Viks fun to play against? Depends how hard they are murdering you. They can be fairly soft and fun or they can be in your face brutal. Depends on the player, crew and upgrades. 

 

Misaki may prove to be a tad more beginner friendly. 

[jonahmaul]

Agree with MasterDisaster.  If you're not familiar with the rules, and in particular the Viks, then getting them slingshotted into your face and wrecking your day before you've had a chance to react is not going to be a lot of fun!

[Gorbad]

I've always found the Viktorias really fun to play against, and especially in M2E to play with. Yes, each individual Viktoria have a high melee damage output, but they are also fragile and you can take revenge. In addition the concept of what they do is fairly straight forward and although there is a lot of additional stuff you can do I think they are quite well suited to start with. Both playing them and playing against them.

[kross1]

I agree with Gorbad, the worse you'll have to do is explain how it's done. Once it's happened to you couple of times you figure out how to counter it.

[Mikey_C]

Personally, I do not enjoy playing as or against the Viks.

Playing as them I always feel like I'm getting blown out, or I am blowing out my opponent. My playstyle as them just isn't condusive to getting close scoring exciting to the end games.  I own the metals models and played them exclusively in 1E. Now I just don't care for them, and they never come out of my transport.

I find playing against them incredibly boring as I basically try to stay out of their enormous threat range until I can remove 1 sister model with shooting or spells. Alternatively, I'll try to bait an early Vik of blood charge so I can counter charge her. But for the most part is feels like I'm pussyfooting around the edge of their threat range waiting for something to happen. 

I don't think playing vs the Vik slingshot would be fun for beginners. Especially if you don't own the right models to try and counter it.
The Viks don't have to be played in the slingshot style, but that fact that they can kind of forces your plays defensively.
 

[The Zinc Lich]

There is also the fact that, due to their squishy-ness, long range fire that ignores LOS (Alright, I'm mostly talking about the Pig-a-pault) can remove them fairly trivially before they can do anything. It is really un-fun to have your master blown up before they get to effect the board at all.

 

Personally, I do not enjoy playing as or against the Viks.

Playing as them I always feel like I'm getting blown out, or I am blowing out my opponent. My playstyle as them just isn't condusive to getting close scoring exciting to the end games.  I own the metals models and played them exclusively in 1E. Now I just don't care for them, and they never come out of my transport.

I find playing against them incredibly boring as I basically try to stay out of their enormous threat range until I can remove 1 sister model with shooting or spells. Alternatively, I'll try to bait an early Vik of blood charge so I can counter charge her. But for the most part is feels like I'm pussyfooting around the edge of their threat range waiting for something to happen. 

I don't think playing vs the Vik slingshot would be fun for beginners. Especially if you don't own the right models to try and counter it.
The Viks don't have to be played in the slingshot style, but that fact that they can kind of forces your plays defensively.
 

 

I actually find the tactical flexibility of leveraging that huge threat range against the opponent to be pretty satisfying. Looking at the board and figuring out if you can get a piece without trading a sister for it, or if the sacrifice of a sister is worth removing the piece is deep enough to keep me happy. Plus, learning to simply use the *threat* of a slingshot to control where the opponent goes is control of the highest order. If you can force them to respect your threat range, you don't even need to spend AP to exert control.

 

That being said, it only works after you've taught the opponent to respect where you can put a sister. New players are going to have to run face first into the blender a few times before they get to play the game, and that isn't terribly pleasant as your first experience. Misaki has much more traditional threat ranges, and abilities that are not so tightly focused on applying sword to face, so I would say she is definitely the better one for taking on noobs.

[zFiend]

It is really un-fun to have your master blown up before they get to effect the board at all.

 

Which in all hilariousness is what the Vikkies tend to do to the opponent.

[kmdl1066]

Wow! What a great collection of responses with reasons.  This is an awesome community.

 

I think the Vikis will go on the shelf and Misaki will get painted.  Von Schill has been fine while I'm still fumbling with rules, but he just doesn't interest me on the table.  And fortunately there is a whole thread on Misaki to help me out.

[Seregon]

I personally love playing with the Viks. If you're playing against someone new or someone who really dislike them in a friendly game, just don't take the student or the slingshot upgrade and/or shez'uul.

[Vorschlag]

Aslong as the other player understands in some limited capacity what the viks are capable of they are fine to play with or against, when I was a new player I really disliked the Viktorias after facing them once as they completely obliterated me (the only loss of my first Malifaux tournament) this was my own fault as I hadn't researched them but for new players I always explain a little about the Master they will be facing and what they do.

[Jimbobovalsocks]

Viks are extremely fast with a huge threat range and a lot of potential for mellee damage. They are also fairly fragile and do comparitively little to effect the rest of their crew. If that sounds like your cup of tea then go for it! If not then try something else instead.

[LunarSol]

If you're worried about how new players might react, fire a warning shot instead of aiming for the head when you first use the Viks against them.  Use the extreme speed and power on a henchmen or something non-ideal to so they can see how it works without feeling like its some kind of unrecoverable advantage.

[MasterDisaster]

Viks are extremely fast with a huge threat range and a lot of potential for mellee damage. They are also fairly fragile and do comparitively little to effect the rest of their crew. If that sounds like your cup of tea then go for it! If not then try something else instead.

 

I don't really agree with this. They can buff every Sister regardless of range or LoS with  Attacks, +2 Dmg, Placement Effects and then there are the Viktoria's (0) Actions which buff Sisters, Dragons actions which give all Sisters in range movement tricks and free attacks, Melee Expert if you are a Sister and can see Vik of Ashes and they share healing as well. They in fact do a hell of a lot for each other but barely anything for none Sisters. Also with Howling Wolf Tattoo you can get a new Sister into the party for a while who can benefit from all of the buffy goodness.

 

If you're not a part of their Sisterhood then you basically get ignored. "SISTERS ARE DOIN' IT FOR THEMSELVES!!" 

[Rathnard]

I've enjoyed those games when I've played against the Viks. They hit like a freight train but fold like paper to decent counter-attack. That dynamic has proven to be a fun challenge - trying to mitigate the damage the Viks do when they charge in while ensuring I can neutralise them once they expose themselves. 

 

That said, I don't find the Viks to be all that interesting to play with. Sure they can wreck face, but when it comes down to it I feel that's all they really do. To me, there's more depth in the playstyles for most of the other Outcast Masters. I'd even take Misaki over the Viks - while they both have a glass cannon sort of feel, I find Misaki's Assassination trigger plus her very mobile playstyle much more engaging. 

[daniello_s]

Viks are a great fun to play with. Period.

[Sezar]

Not to me.

Viks and Seamus were my very first Wyrd adquisitions, about 5 years ago, and have played the psychogirls quite a lot, but it is my least used Crew by far.

It was worse in M1E, where I found them boring to hell, but while their M2E incarnation is more interesting, my biggest complain with them is that after a game with the Vikkies, either my own Crew or my opponent's will most of the times end crushed to pieces. To me it is an all or nothing Crew, where more times than not one of the players will have been utterly destroyed, either in VPs or in models, and that is not fun to me, even if it is me who's on the winning side.

[zFiend]

We have played a few games with the Vikkies in our group as well with very similar results as Sezar.

Either the Vikkies wipe the whole board clean or they get wiped off the board.

We played two games Misaki vs Vikkies, both came down to initiative flips who won the game.

A few more with Lynch vs Vikkies, total bloodbath, twice for Vikkies, once for Lynch, the whole crew wiped out.

Vikkies vs Collodi was a woodchipper. Pretty much both crews got wiped out. With only Vikkies left standing with the Widow Weaver.

Usually the games haven't been as much fun as our other games.

[jonahmaul]

A mate played a game with Viks against a Yan Lo crew last night and 10-0 his opponent.  He killed Yan, Izamu and Yin in the first turn with Vik of Blood (scoring max VPs for Assassinate and Murder Protege against the first two).  Was over by the third turn after he finished mopping everything up.  He was happy with the result but doesn't sound like a game I'd enjoy being on either side of.  Although his opponent has played Viks in M2E so has to take the responsibility for putting his stuff in positions where they could be Whirlwinded so easily.

[Insidiously Mad]

If you put your three best models right beside each other against the Viks you deserve to lose 10-0. Especially since their is no reason to bunch up when playing Yan Lo. I love playing the Viks and playing against them. The game often rides on one activation more than against other Masters but I really enjoy the caginess that encourages. I love games where everything dies, its always quite fun. Also if the Viks player (or opponent) requires an initiative flip to succeed to win the game then they are playing too aggressively. Viks are a great area denial tool. Probably one of my favorite Masters to play against (and with)

[MasterDisaster]

I agree, if anybody is insane enough to put 3 models so close that they are within 4" of each other and they are facing the Viks they deserve to die. Period! 

[danp164]

Let me tell you a story of two guys getting into malifaux 1st edition.

 

One boy chose the viktorias, the other pandora.

 

This led to cruelly unfair matches whereby on at least one occasion a viktoria decapitated her sister before proceeding to lop her own head off.... yeah

 

After a while the two guys returned to Malifaux in its 2nd edition one boy again chose the new vik box, the other chose lady justice (And would consider to buy a lot of additional crews, seriously I have an addiction....) and for the first half few games proceeded to watch as the models he lovingly assembled and painted were summarily sliced to pieces without having so much as an activation between slaughters. Those first few games were an education. My friend still plays the vikkies much to my annoyance though our win loss record has returned to a more equal footing. Let me be clear I can claim to now quite easily encircle and annihilate the hated sisters however they are still an annoyance to play.

 

1. Its really hard to keep track off initially which sister is which.

2. The teleporting madness for the first half dozen or so games requires a LOT of card reading, this doesn't help with point 1

3. The vikkies are very self centred masters, this is great due to independence from the crew, this is bad when it comes to adding models to that crew that have synergy that aren't Vanessa

 

BTW another friend has recently been borrowing crews to try out the game before he buys in, made a good account of himself using Lady J vs my Lynch crew, then got hammered into the floor twice in a row using ortegas vs the vikkies.

 

Much like Leveticus there a bit much for beginner games in my opinion....

[bertmac]

I just dislike the cagey aspect as the opponent of the viks you're basically waiting for blood to do her thing before you get to get on with the rest of the game! Just leaving either the +2 dmg upgrade or even the upgrade of you you aren't allowed any kind of damage mitigation out would make them a less negative experience!

[Insidiously Mad]

I will agree that the Viks are not the best for beginners because of the inherent Go Big or Go Home style they can use. Would never use them in a demo, or if I did I would not put Synchronized Slaying or Sisters in Spirit on them. I like Masters that are challenging to play against as thats how you get better, but understand if some people disagree. I find the fact that the Viks are self centred a nice change after playing more synergistic crews.

[MasterDisaster]

Yeah, I was playing Viks against a beginner who wanted to try out Colette the other day. I was going as friendly as humanly possible without utterly murdering my opponent. I was giving him multiple options on what he could do and let him make up his own mind whilst also showing him that objectives are key rather than the blood bath it could very well have been. He appreciated my help and that I gave him options on either how to deal with my Viks, achieve his objectives or general advice however he was not impressed when by turn 3 he only had Colette left.

 

This was pretty much down to a bit of bad luck on his part with some utterly shocking flips and control hands and me playing the Viks and Co. (with no upgrades other than Sisters in Spirit on Ashes) to achieve the objectives I had already revealed (Assassinate and Power Ritual, I know I can't reveal Assassinate but it was a beginner game and figured it would help him out). This was his 3rd practice game trying to get used to Colette and he asked that I play a crew he was vaguely familiar with and still he wasn't having much fun. 

 

Conclusion, even without all the bells and whistles the Viks have a fairly simple play style, they can be very straight forward but given the chance they WILL smash face, they WILL annoy your opponent and for some people they WILL create a NPE. I wouldn't advise using the Viks against beginners unless you yourself are also a beginner. Even then I'd probably still be wary. A lot of beginners will focus dramatically on their strengths and these can often overshadow their weaknesses.