the threat game

[jotun]

Theoryfauxing...

 

Preface:

Suppose I would want to hire a model for, say, a "cold war" kind of mindgame. One you put on the table to confront your opponent with a threat vector he absolutely has to consider. Your finger on the red button, basically. Since your opponent has to deal with it you probably don't expect said model to achieve a whole lot apart from being a heavy distraction (which is alright, of course). Kind of the bully type walking up threating to smash someone but in the end not having to because everybody hid away.

 

Now, options and feasibilty certainly vary with available theme and strats, opponent faction and models and probably to a large extent player experience. Having not played any pro level games yet, this might all be bollocks, of course During the games I played, I felt Barbaros can fill that role. Killjoy kind of has that effect, too, though I'm not sure whether using him that way alone would be worth 13ss...

 

Questions:

- Do think it is feasible to try to play the threat game, also against experienced players?

- Which Neverborn models do you think fill such a role well, under what circumstances and are they worth the stones if used this way?

 

Thanks for your thoughts

[Rathnard]

Interesting question. On the face of it the Hooded Rider is the first that comes to mind, thanks to its cost and the fact that it becomes much harder to deal with the longer your opponent leaves it. Killjoy certainly has that effect too.

 

But how well you can use such models to play the "threat game" really depends on a bunch of things, all of which comes down to VPs. A smart player will identify threats based not on how big and dangerous it is, but by how many VPs it's likely to claim or deny. So with schemes like Murder Protege and Bodyguard on the table Killjoy could be a massive threat. But if you're playing Reconnoiter then he's going to sit much further down the list. IMO, identifying and responding to threats by their potential worth in VP (rather than killing power alone) is one of the things that can separate great players from decent ones. 

 

So with that in mind, I'd actually suggest the humble Silurid as one of the Neverborn's biggest threats. It's not going to kill much, but an experienced enough player will quickly identify one as being worth 3-6VP off the bat if they ignore it, thanks to its amazing mobility and scheme-placement talents. So either your opponent chases it down and kills it, or they start at a significant VP deficit. Both can work in the Neverborn players favour, so long as you don't make the Silurid too easy to catch.

[Insidiously Mad]

My first thought was Hooded Rider. Such a massive threat range and crazy damage track. He's a great denial piece to keep people out of your backfield. I love to use him to hunt scheme runners and deny breakthrough, protect territory, plant evidence etc. since he can kill models and remove schemes at the same time. You create a huge no-go area in your deployment zone for most any models. And you can stay safe behind LOS blocking terrain, use your (0) push to get out from behind it and then charge. As Rathnard said though, this is scheme dependent. If your opponent has no need to go anywhere near your deployment zone this doesn't work as well.

[zFiend]

First things that popped to my mind were Hooded Rider and Nekima.

[Adran]

The threat game can work, but its not limited to killing face.

 

Models like Silurids can actually forfill the "threat role" in certain set ups. They are capable of earning 6+ VPs on their own in some games if they are left alone. Top players will see this, and can focus signifigant force on them. Newer players often don't realise their power, so won't stop them. Having a silurid on the table when Breakthrough is a possible will make most people think you have taken that. Might well let you get a surprise Frame for Murder or bodyguard since you didn't bother picking breakthrough

 

Models like Killjoy and Nekima have the disruptiion effect that they can stop the enemy Plan A if they try. A good player should have a plan B (and possibly even a plan C), so just because they have lost their master, (or other "lynchpin" model) they can still win the game.

 

 

End view. You can try and play the threat game, but you absolutly need to pick the right threat aganist the right force. And a lot of that will depend on opponents playstyle as well as their force as to what you want.

there isn't a maximum number of points to dedicate to it, as long as you still have ways of earnign points yourself.

[Math Mathonwy]

Stitched Together. Gamble Your Life is something that will worry everyone this side of an El Mayored Perdita. Cover won't help, it has a 6" range, a possible Reactivate and, to top it off, it's a (Puppet) Minion meaning that Collodi, Lucius, and Zoraida can all do nasty things with it. It also bypasses such defenses as Hard to Wound or Incorporeal and the severe damage of 7 means that Armor isn't necessarily all hot against it, either.

Another one is Lilith's Tangle. It is insanely versatile and can really muck up your plans by taking an important model and replacing it with a Teddy or something. It has crazy range and doesn't require LOS. Of course it is almost too powerful a threat since it can do so many things and properly protecting yourself from it is almost impossible.

[Sybaris]

Nekima is really good at this. In fact it's one of the main effect she has on a game. As mentionned above the Hooded Rider and Killjoy are great too.

 

The hooded rider is different as his threat grows with the game, while Nekima is more the kind of "threat" you hold back then spend it in a frenzied oubturst.  Both are high threat in their regard.

[Uktena]

Teddy.

[EnternalVoid]

Oddly enough after the Silurid the models that have done this for me the most have been Beckoners and Lilitu.  First because of Lure, lure worries all sorts.  They can pull your models out of position, expose a vital piece, give addition movement to your own force by a well timed lure to get the threat on something else, and they become harder to make plans for.

 

Beckoners often get special mention here as if they are with Illuminated people become very frightened of weak damage of 4 and being able to trigger Flay with a 4/6/7 damage spread.

[bertmac]

Stick frame for murder on nekima or teddy run them straight into the middle of their crew! They have to kill them or have their crew smashed!

[jotun]

Interesting mention(s) of the Silurid. Splashing one in to deceive your opponent on your choice of schemes could be well worth it. (and you can still just pick the "siluridish" scheme anyways after you've seen their crew, if you think the fake wont work.)

 

On the silurids: Do your opponents often try to handle them or are you more often in the situation where you're opponents just kind of ignores them (thus granting you the VP) and instead focuses more on denying you the strat and achieving their own schemes?

 

I agree, the hooded rider looks like a great piece for the threat game, too. I'll definitively pick him up once he's available in plastic.

[Rathnard]

The times I've used a Silurid or two, most opponents haven't devoted enough resources to stop them achieving the schemes I set for it/them.  Part of it might have been my opponent not recognising just how much of a threat they were. But it's also a matter of patience - hold them back and play defensively until there's an opening, then sweep past and plant some schemes. In one game my opponent had Bishop with Oathkeeper guarding one flank, which was more than enough to hold my Silurid at bay and eventually hunt it down. But eventually events in the centre (ie. Pandora vs Viks) forced him to divert Bishop to help out the rest of his crew. That was the opening I needed to cross the centreline and start placing the required markers for both Stake a Claim and Breakthough. 

 

I've kind of veered off topic here, but I guess what I'm getting at is that when my opponent does identify them as a threat and attempts to eliminate them, they can often tie up more resources than they're worth if I play defensively with them. 

[Bengt]

So with that in mind, I'd actually suggest the humble Silurid as one of the Neverborn's biggest threats. It's not going to kill much, but an experienced enough player will quickly identify one as being worth 3-6VP off the bat if they ignore it, thanks to its amazing mobility and scheme-placement talents. 

What scheme relevant talent do Silurids have besides Leap?

[Kadeton]

Mm, I remember that game. I look forward to seeing how it looks from the Neverborn perspective now that we've switched sides.

[brdparker]

What scheme relevant talent do Silurids have besides Leap?

 

Not much, honestly. But it's the most reliable leap in the game (others don't have the required suit, Blessed of December and Necropunks have the suit, but a low Ca) and a pretty good charge range to match. Do it at the EOT and their camoflage protects them from the odd shot or charge the next turn.