Price creep

[Durza]

I wish they had gone with Rathnards suggestion and bundled the child with Killjoy.

[M_Ruckuss]

Space marine librarian. Great model. 1 model. More plastic than a doppleganger. £18 for 100 points, or 1/17 (ish) of your army  at standard. 

Doppleganger. Great model. Less plastic than a SML. £7.00 for 7 stones, around 1/7 (ish) of 50ss army. 

 

For me this is less about "is Wyrd overcharging"- they are not- and more about either 

 

a)"There are issues with models breaking" sure, in the first release. Hasn't Misaki been retooled since then? Isn't every sets scale more durable now? Sounds like a company listening to its consumer base, happily, as usual.

Plastic haters.....and the ignoring of the CONTINUING rise in the cost of tin and other metals. This means that is we stick using tin, the cost of our models will continue to rise. Inflation aside, you would hope Wyrd have gone "hmmm, $x for x model is what we need for this to be sustainable- lets price it as that and keep the price there, rather than continually screwing over our consumers with ridiculous price increases.... (SM Captain: £8, £10,  £12, £15, £18 over four years- around a 120% increase....?!)

[SpiralngCadavr]

LOL, I remember back when you could get a pair of eldar warlocks for $7 in the mid 90's. Inflation puts this at just under $11, compared with the current ones at $11.5 for a single, i.e.around 210% of inflation (and using the same ancient 9albeit okay) sculpts.

[DeleteAccount]

Actually, plastic is supposed to be cheaper. The cost of tin (which is a major component of most metal miniatures) keeps skyrocketing, while the price of the various types of plastics used for miniatures stays pretty stable. This is the main reason most companies are switching to plastics.

 

I'll have to strongly disagree, the point isn't that plastic is cheaper, it's that plastic is more stable. The big problem most metal workers are finding is that you produce a model ten years ago and a 5% of the cost is from the tin, that tin has been going up in cost, meaning that instead of being the planned 5%, it starts creeping up, taking more of the cost of "value" of the model and reducing the profit margin. With how swingy the prices are you can have periods where it could almost double. So that means two things, they either change the price of the models after every rise to compensate for old kits, or take it in the gut and make up for it with future kits.

 

Plastic on the other hand, at least currently, is a stable cost. I remember when Wyrd explained the material shift that they stated they wanted high quality plastic, similar to lego plastic but could also hold paint, I assume that is not the cheapest plastic in the market, not by a long shot, but now, that 5% intended for material cost remains 5% and it doesn't start creeping up because of external factors and the only reason to raise prices once in a while becomes inflation instead of the materal being a drunk dancer.

 

Keep in mind I chose 5% as an example, I don't know the percentage of the model cost comes from the material, though frankly, I don't think I'm that far off.

 

This is also without going into the much higher quality of the casting compared to old wyrd metals and so on. Tin isn't that expensive in the scheme of things, there was a reason you had blisters of 3 models for less than 20$, but it's also something unreliable that eats at your margin as time passes.

[Jimbobovalsocks]

You're entitled to your opinion, and the cost of models in general is very high but I'm happy to pay the prices that Wyrd charge. I think that it's only fair to judge a product's price by the prices of similar products on the market and here Wyrd prices are about in the middle. Plastic ( proper plastic, not that horrible crap that PP use) is a far superior material to all others as it holds detail well and is easier to assemble/convert. GW (which I still think is the daddy when it comes to quality models although I don't play any of their games) are slightly cheaper per model than Wyrd but they perhaps have an economy of scale since they are producing so many more models than Wyrd. So to summarise.....I agree that their prices are expensive but the game is very affordable and I'm happy to pay the price. I can't see that prices for the plastic sets have gone up much, they seem to have stayed at the same price over here at around £30.00 for a boxed set. Finally, I don't have a big issue with the 'lots of tiny fiddly parts' aspect of Wyrd's models but I do really, really wish they'd stop hiding their heads in the sand and admit that they badly need to sort out the rediculous scaling issues which let the product line down a bit!

[Math Mathonwy]

I wish they had gone with Rathnards suggestion and bundled the child with Killjoy.

I wish they had bundled the generic totems of all factions with their respective Effigies. I realize that this might annoy Collodi players but it would've really helped with both the costs of the boxes (so if the Collodi player isn't exclusively Collodi and plays some other Faction(s), too, then it might've even been cheaper for him as well in the long run) as well as the number of SKUs needed.

[deValmont]

I wish they had bundled the generic totems of all factions with their respective Effigies. I realize that this might annoy Collodi players but it would've really helped with both the costs of the boxes (so if the Collodi player isn't exclusively Collodi and plays some other Faction(s), too, then it might've even been cheaper for him as well in the long run) as well as the number of SKUs needed.

 

  Now that is a BLOODY good idea. 

 

  All the criticism about the Malifaux child is yet again falling foul of the weight = value issue. It doesn't matter how heavy the model is, or how much plastic/metal you're getting for your money. The people that are buying the Child (And when it comes in at my LGS I will probably be one of them) have looked at it and decided that £6 is a decent amount of money for what the model will add to their game. And when I say model I mean in the rulebook sense, pertaining to the model and its card. It doesn't matter that it contains less plastic than say the Purifying Flame, it has a perceived value that makes it worth the cost.

[Myyrä]

Everyone who thinks that the material costs are the only thing that affect the price of the product should totally try making profit selling bottled water. The cost of the product itself is basically 0 (in Finland atleast), but still stores ask quite a lot more for it for some reason...

[zFiend]

Everyone who thinks that the material costs are the only thing that affect the price of the product should totally try making profit selling bottled water. The cost of the product itself is basically 0 (in Finland atleast), but still stores ask quite a lot more for it for some reason...

Lawyered.

[mythicFOX]

I can't help but think that if Wyrd had duel packaged models as people has suggested (Malifaux Child + Kill Joy for example), then we'd be sat here having a conversation about how terrible it is players need to pay for one model to get the other. 

 

Situations like this don't have a 'right answer', there are answers we'd each prefer but not one to suit everyone.

[jonahmaul]

Plastic may well be cheaper than metal but plastic molds are more expensive, especially high quality injected molded ones that Wyrd use.  I won't get into a conversation of the price v other companies as this is about Wyrd prices.  I think they're priced pretty well.  They are expensive for what they are (plastic toys!) but they are very high quality (and all the costs that are associated with having high quality models) and the material is a joy to work with (if frustratingly brittle and in too many pieces at times).  There is an inconsistency in their pricing though which is frustrating.  Why are boxes of three TT Archers/Monks of Low River (insert any other box here) the same price as a box of two Friekorpsmen, especially when the latter haven't even been re-designed.  Other guilty offenders like the Hoarcat Pride are also priced poorly.

[Brightmore]

I can't help but think that if Wyrd had duel packaged models as people has suggested (Malifaux Child + Kill Joy for example), then we'd be sat here having a conversation about how terrible it is players need to pay for one model to get the other. 

 

Situations like this don't have a 'right answer', there are answers we'd each prefer but not one to suit everyone.

This is the truth. We get complaints about this and start boxes. Want a Steam Trunk buy a whole box to get them. Right now I have this problem with the Malifaux cherub, At some point I lost the arm on mine, I really like the model, but I don't want to buy a second lilith box.

 

Edit:

 

Also PP Starts are terrible value. Not terrible value from models to dollars,(for the most part the boxes score you one free model), but a terrible value at least one, if no more models in the starter are not very good in the game. Every starter by and large comes with at least one paperweight model, frequently multiples, which means the value from the starter is lost. 

[Omenbringer]

The issue with Wyrds prices is probably heavily tied to the model counts and "character" aspect of the game. This is a skirmish game where for the most part you dont need multiple copies of models. Even a gremlin summon engine isn't likely to need more than the crew box and blister or two. Add in that each model is supposed to have its own "character" (i.e. pose) and the same model design really cant be re-used. Because of these factors the profit margins are probably fairly tight right now (though will get better as volume increases).

 

Sure plastic is cheaper to produce with (much less volatile material costs) but the molds are more expensive to create (specialized equipment and labor) and require shipment from the manufacture (whether from in the states or without).

 

Because individual players aren't motivated to purchase multiple copies of the same miniatures (skirmish game), Wyrd has to depend upon an increasing pool of players purchasing the models to reach there profit point. Lets say hypothetically they have to sell 20,000 identical sprues before they have paid for themselves, Wyrd is likely going to need 20,000 players to make it worth it. Games Workshop on the other hand will probably only need a quarter of that since each player will need multiple copies to play a base game and for the most part the character is in the army not the individual units.

 

With that said Wyrds prices aren't that horrible.

[decker_cky]

The price of tin shouldn't even be used as an argument anymore. It is certainly a more volatile material price than plastic, but tin has been at essentially the same price for several years. It was really bad when the economy tanked so commodity prices skyrocketed, but it's dropped and normalized since then. 

 

Wyrd uses a more expensive plastic than other companies, and sells lower volume products (some things you may buy 2 of, but almost nothing sells three sets aside from hoarcats).

[NIGHTHATER]

Is there any truth to this statement, not to be rude I'm interested to see if Wyrd is actually listening to us.

 

 

a)"There are issues with models breaking" sure, in the first release. Hasn't Misaki been retooled since then? Isn't every sets scale more durable now? Sounds like a company listening to its consumer base, happily, as usual.

 

 

Has Misaki's box been retooled to be more durable? How about Yan Lo's? The Thunder Archers? Yamaziko? The spear Oiran woman? Who knows how many others? I don't M2E (I'm a 1.5 holdout) so I can't say how many more models have durability issues.

 

I would be more then happy to acknowledge Wyrd for addressing these issues.

 

A friend got the wrong M2E Misaki thunder box a few months ago and we had to send it back. The spruce looked the same to me, though I didn't test it to see if it was more durable then the 1.5 spruce. 

 

I'm aware the plastic models overall tend to be a little more durable then the metal. The metal models were usually bigger (for the 30mm), so easier to convert.

 

The first plastics that come out were so fragile that I was afraid to pick em up the wrong way....they would snap. Has this really been addressed?

 

Nighthater