zoraider and lucias help

[izikial]

it has taken me much deliberation with what faction i want to focus on, and i have finally settled on never born, i have been playing lynch for a while (bit sad about his errata) and im going to be picking up zoraider and lucias (as well as still using jackob) as my main powerhouse trio to focus on, can anyone give me a quick run down of 2 or 3 tips and tricks with zoraider and lucias, having not had them on the bored it hard to Imagen what to do with them,

 

a few things that would be helpful

• a standard use of activations for zoraider and lucias
• a good staple 3-4 models with them
• there best damage combo
• any strong synergy's

i have read the pull my finger, but it wasn't to helpful for them, and is also still using the beta rules so its not entirely accurate

 

thanks guys 

[Dirial]

Lucius

 

Zoraida

 

There you go.

[Myyrä]

To me it seems like Zoraida and Lucius would play quite similiarly, so you might not want to get both if change of pace is what you are looking for. I only have experience with Lucius, so my advice will focus on him. I'm pretty sure the PMF article about Lucius doesn't contain any wrong information, but it isn't that great either.

Standard activation for Lucius in early game is letting some of your most important minions take extra actions using Commanding Presence and Issue Command. Good models to target with these actions include good ranged attackers such as Guild Riflemen, Pathfinders and Austringers (Austringers can't be targeted with Issue Command, but Commanding Presence still works) or good melee attackers such as Illuminated, Young Nephilim or Stitched Together. If you can make your ranged attackers take extra attack actions, that is usually the priority thing to do, but you can also use the extra actions to move models around or take extra focus actions if they haven't activated yet and that would help them perform more efficiently during their activation.

Lucius also has ability What Lackeys Are For that basically allows him to switch places with a friendly model within 10". This can also target models other than minions, so you can use it to move your enforcers and henchmen around. It can be used to help a model move up towards enemies faster or help a ranged attacker to get out from an engagement. The downside to this ability is that you need moderate or soulstone to pull it off. Using soulstone to add the suit here is quite viable, because Lucius can damage nearby friendly models instead of spending a soulstone.

Later in the game Lucius's role usually shifts a bit. If you still have a healthy number of minions alive you can continue doing what you were doing in the beginning and giving them extra actions. It happens often however that your opponent doesn't take too kindly to minions killing his entire crew and decides to kill them first. In that case Lucius can run schemes for you (abilities that let him place scheme markers while doing other stuff help with this) or go fight in close combat. Lucius isn't a melee master really, but he still has combat stats of an average melee henchman and he is very difficult to kill if your opponent doesn't have   to his attacks from somewhere. Having Lucius join the melee also lets nearby minions benefit from his for melee actions aura.

As for good models to run with him in addition to those mentioned earlier there is:

Guild Lawyer: Gives to horror duels to friendly models within decent sized aura, which makes Lucius's Commanding Presence easier to use. His attacks are also quite good and target WP, which might be useful against certain opponents. The biggest drawback in using him when playing as Neverborn, is the fact that he competes for the 4 spots with Guardsmen models. He also happens to be a minion so Lucius can boss him around, but hopefully you have better targets.

Guard Sergeant: Gives to Wp checks to friendly Guardsmen models within aura. Tbh he isn't such a great choice when playing Lucius as Neverborn because he also competes for those limited Guardsmen slots. More viable when playing Lucius as Guild master.

Captain Dashel: Great choice if you also bring at least 2 Riflemen, but otherwise just not worth it when playing Neverborn. Takes a Guardsman slot.

Warden: Has to Horror Duels. That makes him a better target for Commanding presence. He is also quite durable and can help you defend your weaker ranged models with his pushes and paralyze. Competes for Guardsman slots. Is a minion and can be ordered around but often not a priority target.

Waldgeist: Durable model with a long range attack. Similiar to Warden. Can help you hold key areas on the game board and defend your ranged models. Is a minion and can be ordered around but often not a priority target.


When picking your crew you should remember that Lucius only has 3ap and thus can't order around 10 minions during one activation. You will also most likely want to bring good Neverborn enforcers and/or henchmen such as Candy, Nekima, Widow Weaver, Barbaros, Teddy, Doppelganger, Mr. Graves and Mr. Tannen. There are also other good minion models I haven't mentioned because they usually aren't priority targets for Lucius's actions and don't have any special synergies with Lucius. Scheme runners such as Terror Tots and Silurids are atleast one example. You should also remember that they are viable targets for commands if you can get more VP or can deny your enemys VP that way. You win the game by scoring more than your opponent, not by killing all his models (although that usually helps).

[4thstringer]

I've been using Lucius with Illuminated and Black Blood Shaman.  give the illuminated black blood first activation, and then move the illuminated up.  They make great black blood pustule targets, and Lucius can either give activations to the illuminated or to the BBS to do some guaranteed damage to those opponents that are close. 

 

Lucius also lets you give Black blood to more than two models on the first turn, before they move forward.  This is really useful.

 

I also like to use lucius to put teddy/kade/other beater in position to charge into a prime target faster than the beater would get there otherwise.

 

Finally, Lucius's extra actions can really let terror tots fly across the board.

 

Remember that lucius's trigger can give negative flips not only against minions, but against mimics like candy, graves, tannen and the doppelganger.

[Dryzen]

I actually just finished playing a game with Lucius vs Marcus. As was mentioned earlier, don't be afraid to take a few non minion models. I was running 2 lawyers, 2 Guild Guard (was trying them out. Wasnt too impressed) , a waldgeist, Graves, tannen, primordial magic, and a terror tot.

Lawyers are fantastic for their ability to put Fees +1 on the enemy beatsticks. Also do not underestimate Lucius' ability in close combat. The red tape trigger is really good.

I am still new with him but I am loving him.

[izikial]

ok, zoraider seems a little week, especially her voodoo doll stuff, it looks very ap intensive for a small effect, im liking what lucias can do a lot more, it seems a lot more synergistic than what zor dose

[Adran]

when the voodoo doll does work it can be amazing. Give it burning 2, and the model it has hemmed actually takes 4 damage from it. There are some conditions that are game changing. if you can get somethign hemmed, then a nurse can completely keep it out of the game by paralysing the doll every turn with little effort.

 

When it doesn't work, it can seem like a lot of AP for little effect on the game. Some games You'll use it, others you won't bother. Sometimes its worth hiring, sometimes its worth summoning, sometimes its not worth it.

[Dryzen]

Voodoo doll with iggy is fun. Give the voodoo doll burning +6, the target will take 12 damage at the end of the turn. 6 from the voodoo doll taking damage and 6 from it's own burning.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I find his secret assets upgrade is quickly becoming an auto-include. While expensive both for ss purchase, and usage (TN with a Ram), it is quite effective for him to put some significant damage on a model at range early game and late game to drop scheme markers (remove enemy) in the enemy back field.

[Math Mathonwy]

I find his secret assets upgrade is quickly becoming an auto-include. While expensive both for ss purchase, and usage (TN with a Ram), it is quite effective for him to put some significant damage on a model at range early game and late game to drop scheme markers (remove enemy) in the enemy back field.

It is amazing. In my latest game against Lucius, it's mere threat essentially shut down my Scheme Marker production (oh, and it also killed two Gremlins).

[izikial]

ok, so yh im slipping away from zoraider, i kind of like some of what she can do, but im a very cinematographic player, i like to see the story unfold in my head like a film, and to me zoraider just isn't giving me that cool cinimer feeling when i play. i also love swamp fiends (other than the normal slurids, i really don't see there power) and although zoraider is meant to be the swampy girl, she doesn't actually have any supper synergy with swampfeinds

[Kalkris]

Wicked Dolls seem like they'd be great with Lucius. Anyone able to give a testimony to that for our dear Izikial's betterment?

 

~Lil Kalki

[izikial]

Well now, turn up for the books hear, played a game with Jacob wear he felt a little useless, we got into a sort of stale mate were they could out shoot me and I could out melee them, but the middle ground was a bit iffy having zoraider in that same situation would have been soo much stronger, Im Back on the zoraider wagon

[Stupid Bob]

Crew and Masters are always situational dependent on the Strat/Scheme pool. (sorry if that sounds pedantic). While the Obey is a bit similar to Lcuius' commands, to me the key difference is that the Obey works on Enemy too, and doesn't require the target to be a Minion. 

 

I recently bought both, have tried both, and loved them both and can see both of them having a place in my arsenal

[Vorschlag]

Zoraidas crew should be focused on things that either have synergy with her through her vodoo doll or have good 1ap actions for obeys.

The best examples I think of off hand are:

War pig (1pt charge) = 2 attacks from an obey, possibly healing the pig or causing a secondary charge.

Piglet (1pt charge) not so great against opponents but a useful obey to crush your doll once hemmed, again two attacks off of one obey.

Nurse (paralyze on vodoo doll) with the Nurse the doll and the weaver I managed to paralyze three of Marcus' heavy hitters in one turn.
Slop Hauler (lowers def) use this on the vodoo doll if you have it hemmed to something you are in combat with.

 

Wicked dolls should go in as a useful addition aswell due to their buff to other creatures being obeyed plus the addition of poison.

As for Lucius the same concepts apply due to his multiple obey like abilities.
The minions I like fielding with him are Beckoners, pathfinder, Warden and Riflemen.
Riflemen have been somwhat taking a back seat recently due to the purchase of the box including lawyers along with playing with more mimic models.
Enforcers and Henchmen will of course be faction and scheme specefic but I have success so far with Candy, The Widow Weaver, Tannen, The Executioner and ofcourse Dashel (Using the old model).

 

I am not fond of Graves or the doppleganger but believe this is just due to them being used outside their neiche.

A very important trick with Lucius which is often underused (according to battle reports) is "what lackies are for" as it allows to teleport round your heavy hitters or move things out of danger replacing them with either something big and nasty or something you don't mind losing (note requires casting this twice.)

 

The major differences are:

Zoraida can obey enemies

Zoraida can obey non-minions
Zoraida can move schem markers around

Proper manners is ignore if your opponent focuses

Lucius can get two action out of one obey, (i.e drop scheme marker, gain defensive, gain focus etc)
Lucius gets one free if he walks (aslong as you can pass the terror test) - see notes on Captain, Warden and Lawyers.

Lucius can destroy enemy scheme markers or spam schem markers with abilities - which he can proft from via upgrades.
Lucius has to discard to gain the benefit of proper manners.
Lucius can steal the enemy scheme markers at the end of the game (upgrade)

 

I would say Lucius is the more card intensive of the two, so for neverborn, wings of darkness will be very useful, less so with Zoraida.

 

The two would make for an interesting match, given the right strategy and schemes.

And yes Wicked Dolls work nicely with Lucius, I just haven't found a fluff excuse for them yet.

Regarding silurids they are arguably one of the best scheme droppers in the game, especially turn two onwards, drop a marker, leap drop a marker, or leap out of combat and drop scheme markers etc.

you can also drop a scheme marker leap and drop turn one and then use zoraidas ability to move all those scheme markers forward.

[4thstringer]

I don't think Lucius can use thats what lackeys are for more than once per turn.

[Stupid Bob]

I don't think Lucius can use thats what lackeys are for more than once per turn.

Correct:

 

(1) What Lackeys Are For:  Place a Scheme Marker in base

contact with this model. Then, place this model into base contact with target

friendly model within 10", and place the target in base contact with the Scheme

Marker which this Action placed. This Action may only be taken once per Turn.

[Vorschlag]

(1) What Lackeys Are For:  Place a Scheme Marker in base

contact with this model. Then, place this model into base contact with target

friendly model within 10", and place the target in base contact with the Scheme

Marker which this Action placed. This Action may only be taken once per Turn.

 

 

 

Bugger, that throws out a number of tricks I thought I had worked out.

I reaaly should wait till I have the book or cards infront of me before posting.

In which case you either walk Lucius in to trigger 1pt activations then use what lackies are for, or charge get two attacks (hopefully hitting the trigger) and then what lackies are for to throw a mimic or minion (to take advantage of the negative flips) or alternatively a beat stick.

The later option definately puts a new spin on using the doppleganger and Candy.