Why isn't Jack Daw a resurectionist?

[Jimbobovalsocks]

I really like the Malifaux back stories but it slightly bothers me that Jack Daw is an Outcast. I can't see anything 'Outcasty' about him, he seems Resser to the core to me!!

[edonil]

The Ressers are actually semi-organized in ways, and Jack firmly stands outside them.

[deValmont]

  In a perfect world (where no Bad Things Happen) I think that Jack would have been the Outcast/Resser dual faction master instead of Tara, but I don't mind so much as he has access to so many of the really nice resser models anyway. It'll certainly prevent me from running basically the same crew with a different master. One thing that does cause problems with Outcasts for me is that I do like a nice fluffy crew, and outside of his box set Jack's not really very fluffy with anyone else in the Outcasts.

[Dirial]

 One thing that does cause problems with Outcasts for me is that I do like a nice fluffy crew, and outside of his box set Jack's not really very fluffy with anyone else in the Outcasts.

 

That's kinda the Outcasts' schtick, no? They are the guys who don't match with another faction. Jack Daw is a good fit, I think.

[deValmont]

  Oh yes, that's why they're outcasts, but Jack Daw's crew is so thematically specific that using any Freikorps, Rats, Sisters or anything like that ruins the look for me. So the only place to really go for him is Ressers, whereas with things like Levi or Von Schill there's other stuff that still fits. I think that Hamelin suffers from the same problem, if you want to stay fluffy he's a bit restricted for choices.

[Bengt]

Does any Outcasts (existing or expected) starters aside from possibly Hired Swords and Hired Guns match thematically? 

[decker_cky]

Leveticus is the one I think should have been a resser/outcast combo. There's a few older masters I think they could have easily treated differently. For example, Marcus, both thematically and backgroundwise, doesn't really fit as an arcanist. I don't mind how its ended up, but it definitely didn't end up with the most natural separations.

[wrabbit37]

Jack Daw thematically works for me with other Outcast models.  He's essentially a force of nature that shows up at different battles.  When I take him with things outside of his theme, I imagine it's a conflict of other the other Outcasts that Jack Daw has shown up at and is influencing.  He's not directly leading the Outcasts that are there, but for whatever reason it is that Jack Daw shows up anywhere, he showed up here, and his goals (whatever they are) align with the other Outcasts who have shown up.

 

I have a harder time justifying Leve's Abominations and Hamelin's Rats showing up with other Outcasts than I do Jack Daw.

[deValmont]

 

I have a harder time justifying Leve's Abominations and Hamelin's Rats showing up with other Outcasts than I do Jack Daw.

 

  I think that's the problem. Other than the Freikorps/Sisters, there's very little thematic compatibility with the Outcasts. I know that's their thing, but it makes it hard to collect them as a faction rather than as individual crews. I think that the Arcanists suffer from a similar problem. To me, each Arcanist minion is a close fit for a master and looks a bit out of place with another.

[Mr_Brightside]

I think Ama No Zako is a good fit for him. Maybe Bishop, he's been tormented too. Killjoy and Lazarus could argue the tormented aspect as well.

[Loveless]

Does Jacky have any "bring me back" tricks?

 

Rezzers seem to be about...well...twisted resurrection.  Seamus brings up Belles while he does his killing, McMourning creates undead abominations in his free time, Yan Lo is all about utilizing dead Ancestors, while Molly, Kirai, and Nicodem play the summoning game like champs. 

 

Tara makes incredibly little sense as a Resurrectionist - she's more like some sort of Distortion Mage, whacking things with temporal and spatial shifting.  Karina is certainly Resurrectionist in background (and in play with her new upgrade), but Tara? Nah...

 

Jacky seems to be in the same boat as Tara - someone who happens to be Undead, but doesn't really seek to generate more Undead.  He's looking to spread Torment and crude justice more than anything.  I don't get much of a Resurrectionist vibe from him - most of his flavor text and such seems to indicate something much older that woke up due to Rezzer interference than something that actively works with the nutty necromancers of Malifaux.

[LunarSol]

My understanding was that Levi was supposed to be the Outcast/Resser, but when he wasn't going to be finished for Wave 1, Tara took his slot.  Certainly doesn't surprise me from a thematic or mechanical sense to be honest.

 

Outcasts, by their namesake, are kind of outside normal groupings.  I do feel that Von Schill, Misaki, and to a lesser extent, Viktorias are a bit at odds with the strong sense of horror the rest of the faction clings to.  The Hired sets feel like holdovers from a more miscelaneous era when Outcasts were a Mercenary faction before Wyrd decided to drive them in a more cast outs of society theme.  This is kind of similar to how I feel about Marcus and to a lesser extent, Raspy in Arcanists, who may have fit in a theme of random mage types, but feel out of place now that the faction has a strong miners and furnaces feel.  In some ways, I'd have liked to see the Merc models given separate space, as Outcasts as a faction really seem to have embraced a different vibe.

[Uktena]

Resurrectionists use the necromantic magic of Malifaux to reanimate the dead or summon spirits. Jack Daw is more of a result of that process, and while you can argue Molly and Tara may as well be in that category with him, I don't think Jack has any knowledge of Resurrectionist arts. Possibly he has no knowledge of what he's doing at all. He's like bad weather, out of control and nobody's fault - and everyone is happy to see it go.

[DeleteAccount]

My understanding was that Levi was supposed to be the Outcast/Resser, but when he wasn't going to be finished for Wave 1, Tara took his slot.  Certainly doesn't surprise me from a thematic or mechanical sense to be honest.

 

Tara was always intended to be the Outcast Resser, she only took Leveticus spot in the first book, not his faction associations.

[MudgeBlack]

As stated above, Jack is a force in and of himself with no affiliations, just those that follow or gravitate toward him.

Jack is the Cheese.... The cheese stands alone...

[Kalkris]

I am inclined to agree with Loveless here. I do see JD as a force of ancient malevolence that has come about from Resurrectionists meddling with the natural order of Malifaux (the kind that the Neverborn try to uphold - and the reason the Neverborn abhor the Rezzers so much).

 

The way I picture Jack in a metaphorical sense, is that he is a wind (more accurately, the outflow boundary) which blows in the direction of malicious disarray and discontent, to a land of torment. That wind, so to speak, directs legions of similarly-affected beings (undead OR otherwise) to that "promised-land" of sorts.

 

Alternatively, consider Jack Daw to be a Messiah-like figure leading Tormented "devouts" to their destinies (by this token, Guilty are missionaries looking to convert others to the Tormented cause, and Jack just does that naturally). It's a serious matter of perspective in this case. It's really skewed as a faith (as it is literally putting faith in an extant lack of faith) but the idea of a Cult of Jack Daw doesn't sound too far-fetched in a world where religion is rather sparce in the lore.

 

As for the Rezzers and Daw, I suggest that yes, it would make more sense to make Daw a Rezzer, if he had any sort of allegiance to other named Rezzers with minds. As it stands, I'd allege he does not. He also isn't raising the dead; he is leading them. This power of leadership would make even Nicodem quake with fear every time he so much as considers summoning a Hanged or a Crooked Man. Mechanically, Daw's Rezzer similarities end at "I can hire Rezzers (but only if they are Tormented)." and mayyyyyybe the fact that he is undead. Lorewise, Daw's Rezzer similarities end with his leadership of the undead, and his like characteristic.

 

And Tara? Of course she makes less sense as a Rezzer - Outcast is her primary faction of use. That also means that she won't be as inclined to pal around with, say, Nico, or Seamus, or whoever. But she has that level (however minimal) of camaraderie that the Rezzers unify through. She may be a necromantic construct endowed with the power of a Tyrant, but she still has connections, such as Karina - who is very much alive (for now).

 

Long story short, though: Jack Daw wouldn't be a Rezzer because he isn't much of a people person, in mechanics or fluff.

 

~Lil Kalki

 

EDIT: THANKS GUYS. Now I want to write a blurb about the Cult of Jack Daw lmao

[Wessex]

I think that he only has a faction because every model needs one, he's definitely an isolated figure. His Tormented hiring rules break faction boundaries, and he's only Outcast so that he has a home really. Could definitely lead to some cool conversions if he hires a freikorps or something having seen the Guilty artwork.

I still can't work out why Marcus and Rasputina aren't Outcasts, I haven't read any fluff that thematically ties them to Arcanists although I guess magic is loose enough.

[LunarSol]

Raspy tends to serve a hired goon role for the Arcanists, but as a character she's driven by things largely removed from the rest of the faction.

[Betterthenlife]

I still can't work out why Marcus and Rasputina aren't Outcasts, I haven't read any fluff that thematically ties them to Arcanists although I guess magic is loose enough.

 

Raspy is recruited by Ramos part way through book 1 after being attacked by Lilith and follows Ramos (sort of) due to the soulstones he brings to the table. Marcus is less clear but I always pictured him and Ramos being close friends or at least academic equals and so he's tied in that way. It is also worth noting that "Arcanist" does not mean "M&SU" in the fluff.

 

And on the topic of Daw I think he works in Outcasts simply because he doesn't work anywhere else, which is the point of the outcasts is it not?

[Loveless]

 It is also worth noting that "Arcanist" does not mean "M&SU" in the fluff.

 

It just means "probably M&SU"

 

I could see Marcus being Arcanist/Outcast, though.  Honestly, the whole "Beastmaster" thing doesn't fit in as well with a lot of the other magical/Union stuff that goes through the Arcanist faction - he also seems to be relatively ignored in stories as of late...

[Boshea]

Does any Outcasts (existing or expected) starters aside from possibly Hired Swords and Hired Guns match thematically? 

Tara and Leveticus are professional mercenaries/contractors. Jack and Hamelin share no allegiance to any faction, though you can argue Hamelin leads the Rat Catchers who are mercenaries. Jack is the biggest outlier of faction theming, but Jack never has any allegiance. He hates the Guild considering most of the them are the source of his rage, he hates the Neverborn (both regular and swamp variety) for what they did to him, pretty sure he's not the biggest fan of the Resurrectionists, and the 10T and Arcanists wouldn't be able to control him.

 

Outcasts have always been the faction of "left-overs" more or less. If it doesn't fit somewhere else its an outcasts. We have an over-arching theme though of individuals only out for personal gain for the most part, or working towards goals that don't meld with other factions. Jack fits this profile since Jack doesn't care about anything other then being vengeance incarnate.

[Parker Barrows]

Raspy and Marcus make sense as Arcanists. Arcanists seem to fairly decentralized. It is not surprising that some factions within the organization (such as Marcus and Raspy) are loosely aligned. But they are still a part of it. The Rezzers are an organization that is probably more loosely aligned than the Arcanists, but with their bond being a certain type of magic, they simply appear more unified.

 

Jack Daw is undead, but has no affiliations with the Rezzers. And while the Rezzers as a faction are probably arguably the least cohesive group (discounting the Outcasts for obvious reasons), they are still a group with common purpose rather than just a blanket faction to throw all undead into.

 

Levi isn't in it for the same reasons. His necromancy is also probably radically different than the Rezzers since he's almost certainly been practicing before the Breach reopened (not sure of my lore enough to guess if he was practicing from the first Breach or if he started practicing Earthside). While Rezzers all come up with similar practices (possibly influenced by the Gorgon), it's quite possible is very different.

 

Tara.... yeah. She doesn't make much sense. Or at least not enough that puts her obviously as Rezzer over Jack Daw and Levi (either of whom could be given excuse to justify dual faction). Karina gives her a link, but just seems to be a excuse. I hope there will be future fluff of her working with a (the) Rezzer(s) to make her feel more than "filling faction slot."

[LunarSol]

Raspy and Marcus make sense as Arcanists. Arcanists seem to fairly decentralized. It is not surprising that some factions within the organization (such as Marcus and Raspy) are loosely aligned. But they are still a part of it.

 

I think the primary issue is that while Arcanists were originally loosely aligned, Mei Fang, Kaeris, and Ironsides all drove it the same direction towards a much more unified feel that doesn't include Marcus and Raspy.  I don't think it would be as noticeable if Kaeris didn't have the mechanical wings and was just literally a Fire Mage counterpart to Raspy and if Colette didn't have the marionette  mechanical stuff snuck in with the showgirls theme.  

[decker_cky]

I think the primary issue is that while Arcanists were originally loosely aligned, Mei Fang, Kaeris, and Ironsides all drove it the same direction towards a much more unified feel that doesn't include Marcus and Raspy.  I don't think it would be as noticeable if Kaeris didn't have the mechanical wings and was just literally a Fire Mage counterpart to Raspy and if Colette didn't have the marionette  mechanical stuff snuck in with the showgirls theme.  

 

I don't really care too much gameplaywise. Colette for example has a hugely different selection of models, which happens to include a few constructs. But I guess she kind of fits the fire/construct gameplay theme that goes through the faction.

 

Marcus and Rasputina just don't fit thematically - they're closer to reluctant acquaintances than they are to actual members of the Arcanist movement. 

 

Marcus, for example, is fluffwise as tied to Ressurectionists (through McMourning) as he is to Arcanists. The only time he ever came close to having a proper storyline tying him to the Arcanists (where he picked up the girl who heals), it quickly got dropped. Rasputina at least seems to have a current storyline that's moving in that direction.

 

Marcus fits the arcanists as a practitioner who operates outside the law, much like the Outcasts and Ressers do, he doesn't thematically fit into the machinations that link Arcanists. And I'm not considering M&SU and arcanists to be the same thing - Mei Feng and Colette are both masters operating outside that (though closely tied in). Really...in my mind the line between Outcast and Arcanist fits most naturally at that juncture - between those working for Ramos' cause and those not. 

 

I actually thing Hoffman's background implies more Arcanist activities than Marcus or Rasputina. Now, there's foundation for them both to be more involve that's been laid, but I think the story needs to push forward to both of them to have them working with the Arcanist cause, rather than them being independent forces that happen to have had a half dozen conversations with Ramos. 

[Mason]

It's really skewed as a faith (as it is literally putting faith in an extant lack of faith) but the idea of a Cult of Jack Daw doesn't sound too far-fetched in a world where religion is rather sparce in the lore.

 

I'm totally going to use that in my TtB game.  Thanks!