Expanding Seamus

[fengor]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm planning to expand my Ressurectionists collection to give Seamus a few more options and wanted your oppinions.

 

Currently I have the Shadows of Redchapel plastic boxset consisting of Seamus, CCK, Sybille and 3 Belles. Those are already painted and playable. 

 

For a tournament in a month I have another Box of Belles and Bete to assemble and paint. As well as 2 metal performers whom i want to paint and play as Doxies. That is basically the models I will content the Tournament with.

 

A second tournament is in November and I am looking for models to expand. I find the Necropunks fascinating but they arent available over here. So my second choice would be to get either some new plastic Canine Remains or some old metal Crooligans either a s a solo package or the old metal molly set. What do you think?

[mjungledog]

Crooligans are a solid choice.  I would also suggest some punk zombies.  They are very good at dealing damage and are very tough to eliminate.

[Hateful Darkblack]

The Hanged are very brutal, surprisingly durable and mobile, and really help Seamus out.

[Kadeton]

I'd second both the Hanged and the Crooligans. I don't think you'll need the second box of Belles, but YMMV.

Slightly more exotic models to consider next would be Bishop and Yin, in my opinion. They both offer fantastic synergy with Seamus.

[Parker Barrows]

I would advise waiting on getting Molly until her plastic comes out. It will be the only way to get Phillip and the Nanny.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'd get a Nurse before anything else personally, even before Bete. Make sure you contact your TO before the tournament and verify your performers will work as Doxies. Some TOs won't care and some will.

[Clement]

McMourning box.

The nurses can take advantage of the reduced wp. The flesh construct is good for both taking advantage of all your discard tricks and a big base to help block LoS. The dog makes a good scheme runner. McMourning, Sebastian, and the Chihuahua are of course also good, but now you aren't playing Seamus anymore.

[zFiend]

First ones I'd take are a Nurse, Flesh Construct and Bishop! 

[fengor]

Here are my experiences now that i have a few more games under my belt:

 

Bete Noir:

Very situational most of the time enemies go for her like a homing rocket as soon as she is on the board. This can screw up the opponents plan maybe but I have to keep a high card in hand for her. her damage output hasn''t been that good for me since mostly she is gone before she can attack and by starting her buried i have one less activation which leads to me being outactivated by 1 activation on average.

 

Nurses:

Still couldnt get hold of the model and while there are some pretty nice tricks to play with them on the forum i'm stil not quite sure. Looking into getting the McMourning Box though. But that is only the secondary preferred option

 

Bag'o'tools vs Sinister reputation:

Basically if Seamus gets into melee he dies for me. Thats partly because of play errors on my side (not remembering terrifying tests and other wp to heal him, overextending him, etc) and partly because there arent that many things that could still be standing after getting a fully buffed Vik or similar thrown into their face. Even the Mad habedashery didn't change that. Seamus works better for me by hanging back, running schemes and strats and taking the occassional potshot. Live for pain comes in handy as a secondary shooting attack so i tend to run him with sinister rep instead of the bag unless schemes like spring the trap or plant explosives are in the pool.

 

Copycat Killer:

the little one has been underperforming for me in the trial games (he really needs that focused action to hit anything) so i left hima t home for the tournament. Haven't missed him that much. So unless I have 3 points to spare in a crew I guess i wont play him much in the future.

 

Where to go next:

 

Summoning/Being outactivated:

Summoning with Seamus made quite a different in some games, but in general you need an early kill and a free high card for it. Later in the game you often can't get a decent chance to pull it off since I had to reserve a high card for Bete. Out activation was a problem too. So I'm tempted to run Seamus wit Sinister Rep/Redchapel/Manical laugh for a few games to see if mindless zombie help me outactivating the enemy.

 

Willpower duels:

Right now I am tempted to get The Hanged and The Valedictorian to run a terrifying bubble with Seamus and Sybille. This is actually my preferred option of expanding Seamus further atm.

[Kogan Style]

With regards to having Seamus die in melee, remember you can lure him out with a Belle, so if the situation is not to your liking, just have him stroll out, or use the Belle to companion him out.

The Valedictorian will be less useful here as part of a Terror list, as the Hanged strip immunity to Horror (including duels already passed) so you are more likely to get the healing from failed WP duels if the opponent keeps having to take Horror Duels to deal with your group. I'd also look into Yin to help with the Terror (her 0 action spell 'Gnawing Fear' can connect for  flips to all Ca and Wp duels.... profit!)

Canine Remains, Crooligans and even the Carrion Effigy can all be used to bulk out a crew and help with Activation control. 

[fengor]

Kogan the problem is Seamus doesnt live long enough to be lured out by a belle :/

 

And i want to run the valedictorian alongside a the hanged.

[Math Mathonwy]

I like Bete. It takes a bit of forethought on when to bring her out but she can be really devastating in combat. In one game of mine she killed a Ronin and both Vickys (and paralyzed Blood Vic for a round).

Most of the time she should come out at the latter part of a round since she isn't very card-reliant due to the on her attack unless you're going for a specific trigger. Also, bring her out of a dying friendly model, rather than an enemy model (most of the time), preferably one that died to melee, so that you can activate her straight away and hopefully flurry away.

[Kogan Style]

SS to heal at the every least, you only need to keep above 2 wounds to keep Hard to Kill active for at most 3 AP from another attack, but without seeing control cards or opponents set up we can know for sure what is happening.

[zFiend]

Still couldnt get hold of the model and while there are some pretty nice tricks to play with them on the forum i'm stil not quite sure. 

 

Nurses are amazing. Take Your Meds with the crow trigger on enemy masters, henchmen or key beaters. With Seamus' WP -2 aura it is a guaranteed win in most cases.  

[kross1]

are you focussing when shooting w/ Seamus, cuz if you aren't you should be. I have one shoted Zoraida, the Rail Golem, and countless others by doing this.

I like Bag o' Tools, but you have to understand that Seamus isn't a melee master, he is a minion and enforcer killer. I use him as my vp getter/ denial guy, killing his scheme runners, forcing my opponent to change his game to deal with him. The best trigger on the bag is the one that let's him drop a scheme marker in base contact w/the model he damaged. This is perfect for plant explosives, plant evidence, protect territory, breakthrough and so forth. Both upgrades have there place, it just depends on the scheme pool, and your model collection.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Well that, and others:

I'll use my Nurse to give that enemy model in base 2 base with Seamus +2 melee dmg to its attacks. You let it through? Awesome. Now ill accomplice or Companion a Belle to lure that model away from melee range of any of my models, so its effectively paralysed.

Give an enemy model in base to base with bag o' tools Seamus +2 walk. They can only now take walk actions, and getting away from Seamus' 7 melee will be difficult.

Ill use my nurse to give Seamus +2 dmg to his attacks and accomplice him to go next. Seamus uses a high crow in hand or spends a stone for a crow and attacks you, most likely for weak of 3, triggering another attack which will most likely hit for 3 dmg. Repeat twice more.

Seamus has sinister reputation and is almost dead? Heal him to full but paralyze him. Even without his activation his -2 wp aura is very useful to the rest of his crew. If you brought Chiaki or Johan, and they are in range and haven't activated yet you can now use them to remove the paralyze.

You just weathered the initial blood vik storm but are nearly dead? Walk the nurse up and paralyze her, and keep her perma paralyzed for the rest of the game. In addition heal Seamus for 2 fir doing so. For added fun have belles tag her with slow as well.

You brought Shikome or canines? Poison things so the Shikome or canines can charge for a 1 ap action.

The enemy is ignoring your nurse? Use her to drop scheme markers, but always keep her within 12" of Seamus so She is in walk/cast range.

The enemy is attacking your Nurse? Save a mask, take a hit and use the mask to push her out of LoS and into position to drop a marker.

The thing I'm most interested in is how Seamus is dying so fast. He is very easy to hit, very true, but it sounds to me like you are either positioning him badly, IE putting him into a position where the entire, or majority of the Enemy's beaters can all jump on him easily, and or are not bring a crew designed to synergize with him.

If Seamus starts dropping in HP you need your models around him to start casting wp duels left and right at the enemy models near him. Lure the enemies to get them away from Seamus and heal him 2 in the process. Have your belles slow the enemies via undress and heal Seamus for 2. Have your Doxies take the lead, move the enemy away into a pounce bomb, and then heal 2. Have Sybelle focus a shriek to get blast dmg and heal Seamus 2. Have Jaakuna hit people or use her disengaging strikes to keep the enemy where you want them as heal Seamus 2 per strike. Have Yin Debuff the enemies wp, and then hit them with Sybelle's personal attention, potentially healing Seamus 4 and locking the enemy down.

Or utilize Seamus as a bait. Get the enemies to go out of position to kill him, and as they try to get back into the thick of things once he drops keep luring them back with Belles.

You do have to be mindful of where you put him, but if you are and you bring a crew that can assist him well enough he shouldn't drop that often. In all the games I've used him since the very start of the play test he's only died a handful of times on me.

What situation and models are contributing to his dropping so fast, especially if you have the Hat?

Additionally as Kross mentions, I have found you are best suited us ring Seamus to kill the weak and vulnerable. In general don't go after SS users because they can stone to offset a focus if you take one, and since your gun can only be used once per turn ss spent on prevention have a comparatively larger effect on mitigating his dmg.

Instead focus on killing their weak but important scheme runners, or their powerful but weak defensively enforcers. Models with a low df and no ability to use SS are some of his favorite targets.

Ideally you want him, in tandem possibly, with the CCK to kill at least 1 model a turn. As long as the model was important in some way to the enemy it doesn't matter if that model was a terror tot or an ice golem. You want to kill their activations, and give them Less ap to actually be able to spend getting VP. Additionally its great if 1 or 2 of the enemies then rush out to deal with Seamus, provided you crew can support him. All the ap spent trying to deal with Seamus is often AP not spent gaining vp, and with the proper builds and crew construction the model trying to deal with Seamus is as good as paralyzing itself for how effective its ap are going to be to the wider game.

[fengor]

As earlier said I'm prone to overextending him, and then cant get him healed up fast enough. With the viks it's usually getting hit 4times for 5min damage. stoning that is kinda ineffective for me so far. then i usually dont have enough heal available to not get jumped  or blasted the second activation.

 

Some other times it's stupid positioning errors and such.

 

Crew i played in tournament last Saturday was

 

Seamus with sinister rep, redchapel, mad haberdasher

madame sybille with bleeding tongue and not too banged up

bete noir with decaying aura

2 Doxies and 2 Belles

 

I did kinda good with that (2 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss) but feel i could have gotten more out of it, especially since the loss was against an Ophelia crew where i should have been able to rung rings around him willpowerwise. Still gaining play experience though since the nearest malifaux player is over 100km away as far as i know :/

[Fetid Strumpet]

Interesting. I've played the Vicks many times and Seamus has come close, but I've never lost him to the viks even once.

It sounds like you are massively unlucky, getting hit 4 times for 5 dmg is very anomalous. The viks rarely get better than weak against me, and the hat is for that lucky red joker.

[fengor]

Getting hit for 5 weak damage is usually pretty normal for me against Viktorias.  Vik B plus active Sisters in Fury are 5/6/8 with to attack build in and usually a    to dmg from the (0) Lonely path . If i am lucky she won't have Mark of Shezul, but if she does she can ignore hard to kill. Add to that fast from either Student of Conflict or discarding Oath keeper...

[Kadeton]

Getting hit for 5 weak damage is usually pretty normal for me against Viktorias.  Vik B plus active Sisters in Fury are 5/6/8 with to attack build in and usually a    to dmg from the (0) Lonely path . If i am lucky she won't have Mark of Shezul, but if she does she can ignore hard to kill. Add to that fast from either Student of Conflict or discarding Oath keeper...

If you've got three Soulstones and the Hat, it's pretty unlikely that four attacks from Vik B (even with Sisters in Battle and Shez'uul) will kill Seamus, and that's without any other considerations (having a Hanged nearby forcing constant Horror Duels at Wp 3, for example). Assuming you survive, she's done - any Wp attacks you like will stick easily, and heal Seamus.

An option against the Viks is to pull Vik B out of position before she's ready to strike. Two Belles can pull her across the table pretty easily in a chain activation, and then she's in a bad position - she could kill both Belles, but the rest of your crew will kill her. Depending on how well you manage to position, you could also give her Slow and maybe even pull her out of LoS of Vik A - now she likely won't kill anything before she dies (assuming no Oathkeeper). The Viks rely heavily on positioning, and Seamus excels at mucking up the opponent's position.

[Fetid Strumpet]

There is also advantage in getting V. O' Blood out of LoS of Ashes, as she will lose Melee Expert if out of LoS of her partner.

[fengor]

All valid points and i will try to remember them when i play them next. Tried the chain activation with two belles once but didnt got her out of los from vik a though. Have to think more about how to place my belles in the deployment zone.

 

Luckily the vik player is one whom i can visit more often than the rest.

[fengor]

Current Model Count:

 

Redchapel Box (Seamus, CCK, Sybille, 3x RottenBelle)

Box of Rotten belles (3x Rotten Belles)

2 Performer conversions (2x Dead Doxy)

Bete Noir

Body of evidence box (Mcmourning, Sebastian, 2x nurse, Flesh Construct, Zombie Chihuaha)

University of Transmortis box (The Valedictorian, Student of Sinew, Student of Steel, Student of Viscera)

The hanged box (2x the hanged)

 

where to go next:

debating an old molly metal box for the crooligans or nicodems open graves starter

[Fetid Strumpet]

I'd wait on Molly if your budget is tight. The new sculpt of the rogue necromancy is most likely going to be heaps better, and the only way you are going to get Philip is in the new box when ever it comes out. If your budget is elastic then getting Crooligans isn't a bad idea.

I do find that with Seamus, especially if you bring sybelle your belles can often be fast enough to serve as scheme runners.

I'd personally consider Yan Lo and Yin next. Yin has good synergy with Seamus and sybelle, and Chiaki is a model that needs to almost auto slot in if you go up against ressers, or possibly outcasts. Seamus is only resilient if you can heal, and if he gets tagged by a hanged it can be game over for him. Added to that his biggest weakness is that he is easy to hit and this toss conditions on and a model that not only can strip those conditions off, but with her upgrade can serve as an additional slow casting machine gun can make her very useful.

[fengor]

hmm I don't like yan lo and the asian resser models that much (purely model/theme wise) but will think about it.

 

Budet has a bit of flex but gonna wait till the next year before expanding again anyway. Crooligans are mainly interesting to have options for the scheme running role. Although I'd prefer Necropunks or night terrors if i could get hold of the models :/

 

Main difficulty atm is selecting a 60SS pool for the tournament (just the models i want to hire, no summons or upgrades)

 

Seamus

CCK (3)

2x Belle (10)

Sybille (8)

The Valedictorian (10)

The Hanged (9)

Dead Doxy (6)

Nurse(6)

Bete Noire(8)

 

would be the current iteration