Barbaros

[stinkoman]

been unable to find a barbaros on eBay.  though i dont care for proxies much, i dont want to buy the lilith box just for him.  any ideas?  or would you think there is a market for her box contents (minus barbaros)?

[SurreyLee]

Tots seem popular scheme grabbers for a neverborn crew so suspect they'd go on eBay but not sure about lilith or the totem.

You could try converting one of the metal young nephilim by adding a huge sword...that might work as would look different to the new plastic ones?

[Somnicide]

One of the guys I play against used a metal Lelu as base and gave him a chainsword for his weapon. I forget what he did for the armor but I'll try and take a pic. It actually looks really good.

[Omenbringer]

Another thread lamenting the lack of availability for Barbaros (or any of the increasing number of new models only available in crew boxes). Perhaps these will eventually validate the desire (and request) for an individually available version (even if only obtainable via the online Wyrd Store).

 

 

or would you think there is a market for her box contents (minus barbaros)?

There isn't a secondary market for Liliths box contents unless it happens to be Barbaros. This is why you dont see them floating around on EBay.

[Lupercal]

Another thread lamenting the lack of availability for Barbaros (or any of the increasing number of new models only available in crew boxes). Perhaps these will eventually validate the desire (and request) for an individually available version (even if only obtainable via the online Wyrd Store).

 

 

There isn't a secondary market for Liliths box contents unless it happens to be Barbaros. This is why you dont see them floating around on EBay.

 

 

I think the desire has been valid since the start and Wyrd agrees. There are other reasons they have stated for not selling him individually and they have said it is very unlikely he would be exclusive to the webstore as that would anger game store owners(I was in favor of this at first as well but now I see their point)

I would second that the Tots will probably be fairly easy to sell on the second market, lilith and the totem probably not so much but I have seen them all sell as single models on ebay in the past. So while I can understand your statements here and in other threads that there is no secondary market value to the lilith box, I think it is much more accurate to say there is simply a lot less demand for the other models in the box than barbaros. This may be obvious but I am tired of seeing you tell new people that there is no way they will sell the contents of their lilith box ever and there is no point in trying. If you absolutely cant afford to pay for a lilith box minus what you can sell the Tots for, then your arguments start to hold more weight, but if you can afford to be out that much waiting for lilith and the cherub to sell when they might not, I think it is perfectly reasonable to get a lilith box and assume the Tots will sell fairly easily.

They may not be a regular sight on ebay but plenty of people have cut up plastic m2e crews and sold the models individually on ebay, and the models always seem to sell(I have seen most every malifaux model on ebay in the last 6-8 months and check pretty much every day). Dont underestimate the power of the internet to bring you together with the one person on earth who just wanted lilith or the cherub for a conversion and nothing else.

I could buy a lilith box set right now on ebay for 25 dollars. Terror tot boxes are 13 at the cheapest and somebody has a set of 3 without the box (so from a lilith box) for 9 dollars. Assuming you can sell the three tots for 8 dollars total (cheeep) and barbaros costs what 10 bucks? That means you are out 7 more for pandora and the cherub. Really not that terrible especially as barbaros is probably worth a bit more than that especially if he was sold separately from the box on the secondary market.

In short if you can afford to be out 7-15 (more like 7 if Tots sell) dollars for the forseeable future, give it a try and see if you can get them to sell. Even if you sell them cheap at least you can get barbaros and get something back. 

[Bengt]

Barbie might go for $11 like most single model boxes, but looking at his sprue on gmort he could very well go for $16 like Willie as well. If Wyrd were to sell him that is.

[Aleal]

From what I understand, one of the big reasons to not sell some of the individual models outside of the box sets is to keep the number of SKUs down so that store owners don't have to add many. Coming from a call center/warehouse background I can understand that but at the same time I don't see why Wyrd wouldn't sell individuals on the web store. If it came down to making sure that store owners didn't get angry about having web exclusives then it could be mitigated by offering them the ability to use the extra SKUs if they were so inclined. If store owners didn't want to import the extra SKUs it would be on them instead.

 

I don't know what Wyrd's warehouse system is like, but based on the Gencon orders threads and the glimpses there it doesn't seem like it's a very efficient set up to begin with so holding some products out of boxed sets for individual sales shouldn't be a problem. Since it seems like it's a very rudimentary pick and pack set up with a small crew that they have going they wouldn't necessarily even need to keep individual models aside at first. To test the waters, they could place the individual models on the web store and with a limited quantity each. When an order for a model is made, they could then open a box set and ship out the requested model while adding the rest of the models to their respective inventory counts. This would allow them to sell the individuals and gauge interest in which models to keep in stock separately. 

 

If the individual model market was good enough they could order more of the most requested models and keep them outside of the box sets and then give the retailers the option to use the new single model SKUs or not. At the very least they could give the retailers the option to special order the models for customers.

 

Sorry, this was a bit off topic and I know there are likely details that I don't know or I'm not privy to which could make things more difficult to accomplish this. But I also know it's not outside of the realm of possibility to offer it. It seems like there are many avenues that could be gone down to make the experience more efficient and better for the customers than always relying on eBay or the secondary markets to get the models people are looking for.

[Uktena]

Where is this hunger to use Barbaros without Lilith or tater tots coming from? I get that he's a stellar henchman, but if you have him, why not use the rest of the Mother of Monsters box?

[Bengt]

Where is this hunger to use Barbaros without Lilith or tater tots coming from? I get that he's a stellar henchman, but if you have him, why not use the rest of the Mother of Monsters box?

IIRC Barbie didn't have an old metal model so some people who have a metal Lilith crew want just him.

[Fetid Strumpet]

You'll see the same issues regarding the steam trunk from Von Schill too.

[Loveless]

With Wyrd abandoning old metal models, this is becoming true for just about everything that's "crew box exclusive"

 

If you can't find a metal, you pretty much have to get Rasputina's box for an Ice Golem.  Most of the Henchmen are starter-box only.  All non-generic totems only come in their starters (which is a right pain if your master didn't have a totem last edition - see Von Schill).  If you want an Ortega, you have to buy all of them (except for Abuela).  And several 10T models only come in starter crews.

 

If you already have a full Lilith crew, it's redundant to get it again just for Barbaros.  However, in my opinion, given that the plastic versions look 10x better than the metals, I'd sell off the metals to the eBay crazies who prefer them and just buy the box at a nice hefty discount.  Shouldn't be that difficult

[Mastershake]

With Wyrd abandoning old metal models, this is becoming true for just about everything that's "crew box exclusive"

 

If you can't find a metal, you pretty much have to get Rasputina's box for an Ice Golem.  Most of the Henchmen are starter-box only.  All non-generic totems only come in their starters (which is a right pain if your master didn't have a totem last edition - see Von Schill).  If you want an Ortega, you have to buy all of them (except for Abuela).  And several 10T models only come in starter crews.

 

If you already have a full Lilith crew, it's redundant to get it again just for Barbaros.  However, in my opinion, given that the plastic versions look 10x better than the metals, I'd sell off the metals to the eBay crazies who prefer them and just buy the box at a nice hefty discount.  Shouldn't be that difficult

 

Yeah, as much as it might be annoying, the new models are better by at least a factor of 10, so maybe selling off the old metals and upgrading is the winning strategy.  Also you can never have too many Terror Tots (I have 9).

[Omenbringer]

In short if you can afford to be out 7-15 (more like 7 if Tots sell) dollars for the forseeable future, give it a try and see if you can get them to sell. Even if you sell them cheap at least you can get barbaros and get something back. 

So this is considered a reasonable expectation for every crew box exclusive model that is released for a crew that has already been purchased once? I (and many others) bought in very heavy to Malifaux in the first edition ( there are only a small handful of crews I dont own from the 1st edition). I am not looking for a handout or a freebie, I am more than willing to pay a fair price for a product. I am not willing to up size the purchase then work to sell the stuff I dont need or want on Ebay (and yes Ebay is work) the entire time hoping I might end up eating only a small loss.

[Lupercal]

So this is considered a reasonable expectation for every crew box exclusive model that is released for a crew that has already been purchased once? I (and many others) bought in very heavy to Malifaux in the first edition ( there are only a small handful of crews I dont own from the 1st edition). I am not looking for a handout or a freebie, I am more than willing to pay a fair price for a product. I am not willing to up size the purchase then work to sell the stuff I dont need or want on Ebay (and yes Ebay is work) the entire time hoping I might end up eating only a small loss.

 

My point was not that the current situation is ideal, it was that you CAN sell the tots and at least try to sell Lilith and the Cherub on eBay.  I think this argument has been beaten to death and you know I agree with you about the fundamental idea that buying Barbaros (and anything that doesn't exist in metal) separately would be great.  The fact that you are not willing to eat the small loss of money or invest the time/effort to make the loss lesser is your own prerogative, my post was only directed at you because you claim in this thread and in many others that there is no secondary market whatsoever for broken up Lilith boxes and other boxes.  I only wanted to express my opinion that you can indeed break up and sell a crew box, even if you are incurring a small loss from what you would be if the model was sold separately.

 

Really at the end of the day I don't think the situation is all that bad.  As much as people will deny it, miniature wargaming is not a cheap hobby.  Wyrd could be packaging models together on purpose and it would be a legitimate (and decent from a money making standpoint) business strategy.  I think that if they were obviously doing it on purpose people like you would have a bit more of a leg to stand on but as it is you are just complaining that you can't get the model separately without spending a little more money or putting in a little more work.  It sounds to me like you just don't want an official Barbaros model that much, which is entirely fine, but you have your options, you have Wyrds reasons for not selling the models separately, they know we want them to sell the models separately, and they have said they do not intend to in the near future.  

 

So yeah I don't think it is that unreasonable of an expectation.  As we went over in the other thread, I do think that what you want (for Wyrd to repackage and sell separately a bunch of models they currently have in circulation as part of other boxes before they move on to their already busy and behind schedule) is fairly unreasonable.  At least admit that it would be a lot of work to split Barbaros and the other models like him out separately and that it goes against the idea that Wyrd should be getting all the plastic box sets out as soon as possible and keeping up with their schedule.  I can't understand how people like you, especially a couple of weeks ago when this subject was getting a lot of discussion, can simultaneously complain about Wyrd being behind schedule and still say that they should do a bunch of work to split models they are already selling into separate boxes, just so that people who already have the metals don't have to "work" on eBay to make back their 10-15 dollars or just bite the bullet and buy the damn plastic set.  

[Omenbringer]

Off topic but...

 

We could argue all day about what Wyrd could have done differently. Such as they could have released the new stuff that wasn't available in metal first while they allowed existing metal stocks to dry up just in time for the "new" plastic crews' release. They could have laid the sprues out to allow for easier separation should a desire or need arise down the line (such as the need to replace missing, broken or miscast parts). They could have decided to place any models that were not available in metal in their own blisters so as not to distance those in the community that have already bought in heavy.

 

If I come across as to curt well blame it on extreme frustration at continuing to see Wyrd consciously decide to release new crew boxes with models that are only available in them despite knowing there is a quantifiable portion of the community that wants/ desires/ needs those models separately. Had it only been Barbaros it probably wouldn't bug me this much but he isn't unique in this regard. I am also frustrated by seeing this thread show up every month or so when new players join the online community after having bought old metal stocks and asking.

 

I am a fan of Wyrd (and have been for longer than most) and perhaps that is why I am so frustrated by this. I remember the days when Wyrd sent out v2 cards at their expense, when they wouldn't sell the Oirin at GenCon because they had a flaw, when they held up release of Terraclips because they weren't up to their standards, when they mailed out replacements for the Amazonian Vik's because they were out of scale, when they decided to offer Arsenal decks so those with existing metal crews could transition to the new edition without having to purchase new crews. That is the company I am nostalgic for.

[Uktena]

Now that I understand the situation Omenbringer is talking about I understand why it would be frustrating. It's basically knowing that you're at the end of a line that may never meet your needs. That said, I agree that prioritizing the 2nd wave blisters and crew boxes over making every model individually available is better for our hobby overall. It seems like the lesser of two problems. Every player has some of what they want in wave 2 soon, and we all have to be patient before we can have everything.

Upgrading all your models to 2nd ed may not be preferable or even possible for some players, but I think that's better to deal with immediately as opposed to endless demands for a Kaeris or Collodi box for the next year. If it makes it more palatable for you Omen, I'll buy a spare Lilith and 3 tots off you for $15.00 if you live in the US. Kinda want an alt paint scheme as is.

[Omenbringer]

Appreciate the offer and I may just take you up on that.

[Lupercal]

Off topic but...

 

We could argue all day about what Wyrd could have done differently. Such as they could have released the new stuff that wasn't available in metal first while they allowed existing metal stocks to dry up just in time for the "new" plastic crews' release. They could have laid the sprues out to allow for easier separation should a desire or need arise down the line (such as the need to replace missing, broken or miscast parts). They could have decided to place any models that were not available in metal in their own blisters so as not to distance those in the community that have already bought in heavy.

 

If I come across as to curt well blame it on extreme frustration at continuing to see Wyrd consciously decide to release new crew boxes with models that are only available in them despite knowing there is a quantifiable portion of the community that wants/ desires/ needs those models separately. Had it only been Barbaros it probably wouldn't bug me this much but he isn't unique in this regard. I am also frustrated by seeing this thread show up every month or so when new players join the online community after having bought old metal stocks and asking.

 

I am a fan of Wyrd (and have been for longer than most) and perhaps that is why I am so frustrated by this. I remember the days when Wyrd sent out v2 cards at their expense, when they wouldn't sell the Oirin at GenCon because they had a flaw, when they held up release of Terraclips because they weren't up to their standards, when they mailed out replacements for the Amazonian Vik's because they were out of scale, when they decided to offer Arsenal decks so those with existing metal crews could transition to the new edition without having to purchase new crews. That is the company I am nostalgic for.

 

We already did argue all day about what Wyrd could have done differently.  We actually agreed quite a bit on the fundamentals I just don't think getting angry at Wyrd makes much sense here.  That was a different thread but this is part of my point. 

 

I don't mean to be antagonizing myself, and I also understand that you are frustrated that they continue to release models this way, I just don't understand what you were expecting when they said they would continue to do it this way when the question was raised before. 

 

I really don't take issue with your opinions or anything like that, and I really am not trying to make you mad, I only started this discussion again in this thread because it is the second or third time I have seen you advise someone against buying a box set and trying to split it up on ebay by saying there is "no secondary market."  I don't even take issue with this sentiment, I just think it goes a little bit to far and it is more accurate to say that the secondary market is tough and you will likely only be able to sell the Minions from any box set easily, the Masters and Totems will be much harder.  I realize this is a small point but I think it matters as being out for the entire box just to get 1 model sounds a lot worse than selling 3 models, keeping 1 to use, and having 2 that are dead and difficult to sell. 

 

I am also a fan of Wyrd and have been playing the game since 2010, maybe not as long as you but it is still a long time.  I don't see how their decision to release their models differently for valid reasons (even if it is inconvenient or we might not agree with the reasons) invalidates their past good deeds as a company.  They obviously still hold things up for not meeting their standards, as evidenced by brewmaster and any other number of delayed releases.  Their decision to make arsenal decks was a great one for many reasons, even if you could buy the new barbaros separately you could still just get an arsenal deck and proxy him, arsenal decks make more sense than selling individual cards from the companies point of view and if people want to replace missing or damaged ones how else would they?  In other words I don't think the purpose of arsenal decks is invalidated by the fact that you cant get some models separately.  I get what you are saying about the Viks for sure, and it is disappointing that the TTB females will apparently not even be fixed for retail.  I think that Wyrds decision on that is strange and doesn't make a lot of sense but maybe it would cost too much money or take up too much time to be worth it right now. 

 

I guess I just don't think that you need to be all that nostalgic because Wyrd is still a pretty great company.  I think they have bitten off more than they can chew recently but I still have hopes that they will catch up with the plastics and things will settle down a bit.  Hopefully they will sell at least the henchmen and enforcers separately in the future but only time will tell and in the meantime they have models that don't exist at all, let alone in metal, to make. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

The situation is larger than omenbringer brings up though. In 1.5, and as I'm sure there will be again, there were alot of models that came in the starter sets that just plain were bad models for the level of power the game got to.

I started playing just after rising powers and by the time I got around to collecting certain masters I had realized that models like Sebastian and Mortimer and many others just weren't worth buying the starter box to acquire. And because I was able to buy any model, I did. I don't have Sebastian and have no way to get him other than through the starter box. So not only is it the likes of barbarous, Philip, and the steam trunk, their decision to not sell all the models seperately bites more than just the people who want models that never existed before, as metal supplies dry up even models that were at one time easy to get now become harder.

Do I wish it was otherwise yes, am I angry or upset at wyrd for this, no. This to me is a business decision, and unlike the business decisions of some other game companies this one at least I can understand at least a little of why it was made.

I don't think they decided to try to figure out how to stick it to customers who have supported them for a long time. I think they looked at what they thought would be the best long term plan for their business and ran with it. We're they aware they might "force" a certain segment of their older player base to buy their products again, I'm

Certain they were aware, and I'm certain they were most likly not giggling themselves silly with all the ill will they knew it would generate, nor were they gleefully counting all the stacks of money they were going to pry from us to buy the same things over and over. From what little I know of their business id be hard pressed to say if I were in full possession of the numbers that I would have done anything differently.

For the long term health of their company the issue of models not existing before is a total non issue to all brand new and future players who won't be able to buy the metals. So long term health says non issue for future growth. Long established supporters who have invested alot are the potential issue then.

For those the edition change showed that no matter what they do they aren't going to please everyone. Even if they did nothing different, didn't do the edition shift, and continued operating as before they were going to lose people, even highly invested people. Anyone remember sandwhich, calmdown, and magic pockets? All people who as far as I could ascertain left the community before there was even the shake up of the new edition. So regardless of what they do they are going to cause some people to leave with varying degrees of amicabiliry.

Should Wyrd take steps to sell individual models at what is most likely a great loss in profits, due to extra sorting, shipping, and storage of single minis, to support a small segment of the MALIFAUX community who regardless of how much money they have given the company already has a turn over rate, even if they did sell the new minus as a one time event like the v2 cards some people are going to miss out and get crushed in the gears of the ponderous behemoth that is running any enterprise involving people.

I'm suffering this situation worse than many because I didn't buy hardly any of the boxed sets, and while I wish it was otherwise and I am annoyed by it, from a purely black and white perspective I can't fault the logic that lead to it.

That isn't to say omenbringer isn't perfectly justified in being annoyed, I'm annoyed, I just don't see a way they could have gotten around it.

[Omenbringer]

I hear you and dont necessarily disagree with the logic Lupercal, however this isn't just a Barbaros thing. For me it's a Vonschill's Steam Trunk, Lucius' Scribe and Sergeant Dashel, Kaeris Totem and whatever they release with Wong and Jack Daw that isn't available separately.

 

I appreciate the offer of Uktena up there but even if getting a good deal on the crew box from an online retailer (like FRP games) I am still on the hook for shipping to me and then to the buyer of the "bits". Happy circumstance that he is interested and stumbled into this thread but is it likely to happen for each of the "new" individual models that will only be available in the crew boxes that I'll want to fill the metal crews I have already purchased?.

 

Oh and I'm a Marine it takes a lot more than that to antagonize me

[Lupercal]

Yeah I didn't really think I was antagonizing you.  Still it doesn't hurt to say as other people and mods are reading and I want to make my intentions clear.  I do think the discussion is good to have. 

 

I hear you about needing all those different models though.  The more into the game you were before the more the new way of doing things bites you in the ass.  I guess I was fortunate in the crews I picked as I played quite a few in 1.5 and have not been hit as hard by this as many people it seems.  Although I am probably the wrong person to be judging this as I am biased in the other direction and willing to spend entirely too much money on shiny new plastic.  If I own something in metal it will probably delay me buying the plastic, but it won't stop me all together. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

The only thing I bought in plastic again was Seamus, mainly cause I wanted more belles and I wanted the new sybelle very badly. The ONLY other model I've been tempted to buy again cause of the sculpts are the nurses, but I have two already and with a newborn son its tough to jystify buying something I already have, and won't use four of, just because the new sculpts are beautiful.

[Tuttleboy]

I'm having a hard time talking myself out of picking up the new Dreamer and Zoraida boxes. I've got everything for both crews owned and painted and a nightmare Chompy to boot, but the new sculpts are so damn good looking.

[StaticVortex]

I'm having a hard time talking myself out of picking up the new Dreamer and Zoraida boxes. I've got everything for both crews owned and painted and a nightmare Chompy to boot, but the new sculpts are so damn good looking.

I'm right there with ya!  I have everything for Dreamer (sans nightmare Chompy), and am looking at picking up his box as well.  For Lilith, I picked up both the old and new boxes (more tots!) and will likely convert extras into something fun (I rather enjoy that).  Came across a Collodi that is just begging to be converted into Vasilisa...and will soon be.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I got my Barbaros by winning a Lilith box in a tournament, keeping Barbaros and the additional tots, and giving the rest of the box to a friend.