Red Joker and "what card is it" (Leave it to Luck)

[Alviaran]

We all know the Red Joker is a 14 with a wild suit. When it is revealed, you choose the suit. No where does it state what card it is, only that it has the suit now. 

 

The reason this matters is that Leave It To Luck has a rather unusual wording in that it treats all Mask cards flipped/played as +2 value and Tomes as -2 value. No where else in the game do you have the language of a "Mask card". That implies to me that a "Mask card" is a card with a Mask printed on the card not one that can gain the suit. My friend disagrees and says the rules state that the Red Joker is that suit for all intents and purposes but I find nothing of that sort. 

 

So which is it? And I don't want what you THINK. If you do not have a rules reference that directly backs it up one way or another or are Justin/Rules Marshall, I'm sorry, but your opinion doesn't matter on this. It is a matter of the intent behind the wording which only Wyrd can really give us. 

[Makrar]

Page 12 in the Mini rulebook

 

"When the rules refer specifically to a fate deck card's suit they are referring to the printed suit on the Fate's Deck card."

 

This to me would mean that a red joker does not count as a suit in tannens "leave it to luck" as the rule is specificialy referring to the card flipped/played suit

[bertmac]

Id go the other way and say it is whichever suit you choose it to be.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I agree with makrar.

[The Godlyness]

Red Joker says immediately choose the suit when it is flipped and that is what it counts as."The Red Joker has a value of 14 and a wild suit. When the Red Joker is flipped or played, the owning player must immediately announce which suit the Red Joker will be during the Action."

 

(Leave it to Luck) Until the end of the Turn, models within 6 treat any cards which they flip or play as having +2 value, and any cards which they flip or play as having -2 value.

 

So it would be affected by Leave it to luck. so i flip or play the red joker and choose   so now i have played or flipped a and leave it to luck effects the action.

 

Also welcome back to the forum. some minor changes

 

1: there is no Rules marshal and any thing Justin or any other Admin/moderator says is purely their opinion and is not rules

 

2: Its a Rules Discussion and people have to think to answer you.

 

3: Saying the forums opinions don't matter and only the Word of Law will ever satisfy you wont make you any friends but i chaulk that up to not knowing statement 1:

 

4: also on the intent it is clearly affected since in previous forums Justin has commented on the Red joker being affected mainly for summoning Teddy with the dreamer which is a thing.

[Ausplosions]

The Red Jokers in the new Arcane decks have all the suits on them.

So what now?

For what it's worth, I think it's fairly obvious that if the Red Joker counts as all suits, then Leave it to Luck works off it. It's not a difficult one.

[Ausplosions]

So which is it? And I don't want what you THINK. If you do not have a rules reference that directly backs it up one way or another or are Justin/Rules Marshall, I'm sorry, but your opinion doesn't matter on this. It is a matter of the intent behind the wording which only Wyrd can really give us.

Also.

No. That's not how this works....

[Webmonkey]

For what it's worth, I think it's fairly obvious that if the Red Joker counts as all suits,

But if this is the case, and it counts as all suits at the same time,... wouldn't then the +2 for the mask, and the -2 for the tome, cancel each other out?

[Lupercal]

But if this is the case, and it counts as all suits at the same time,... wouldn't then the +2 for the mask, and the -2 for the tome, cancel each other out?

It doesnt say it counts as all suits in the rulebook, it says you declare a suit immediately when you flip it and it counts as that suit for the duration of the action.  I think this is fairly easy to understand.  In addition this has been adressed by Justin before and while that isnt an official ruling there are no official rulings on the forum anymore and it certainly adds some weight to what the intent might be. 

[The Godlyness]

Lol He was being Facetious. i think he understands that the joker is not all the suits. i believe it was the comment of the OP that said mask cards have masks therefore only they can benefit. then the Ausplosions comment of the RJ in an Arcane deck has all the symbols lol. which then the clues us all in that he is being funny. which i did laugh so it worked.

[Lupercal]

The thought had crossed my mind it could be a joke but I wasnt sure.  I think this whole thread is very silly.  The original point makrar made about the suits needing to be printed on the card comes from the actual definition of what a suit is on page 12 and if that isnt twisting the intention of the rules then I dont know what is. 

 

Point taken though, and I did think it was funny(It would have been whether he was serious or not).  

[Alviaran]

Also welcome back to the forum. some minor changes

 

1: there is no Rules marshal and any thing Justin or any other Admin/moderator says is purely their opinion and is not rules

 

2: Its a Rules Discussion and people have to think to answer you.

 

3: Saying the forums opinions don't matter and only the Word of Law will ever satisfy you wont make you any friends but i chaulk that up to not knowing statement 1:

 

4: also on the intent it is clearly affected since in previous forums Justin has commented on the Red joker being affected mainly for summoning Teddy with the dreamer which is a thing.

It isn't a welcome back. I left the forum because of the community here and I will not be staying. I even see some of those same people are still around and still vocal. 

 

The lack of official rulings is silly. 

 

Any link to this intent bit from Justin then at least? 

[Webmonkey]

yes,.. it was my rather poor attempt at humor.

[The Godlyness]

Search for Tannen and dreamer. Or dreamer summoning or summoning teddy or any combination of the above. If you haven't seen it the Faq which is located in the download section has some clarity on other issues that might come up in your gaming group. And it is also the place to find official rulings on things. It is bi monthly and the next one comes out shortly.

[Uktena]

ITT: "Haha you fool! Lightsabers DEAL damage!"

[Cats Laughing]

The lack of official rulings is silly.

There are no official rulings on this forum to keep us from having to search through the rules forum to find those "official" rulings, or the problem of having conflicting "official" rulings.

Official rulings can be found in the FAQ-Errata document that is updated every 2 months.

[Pierowmaniac]

It isn't a welcome back. I left the forum because of the community here and I will not be staying. I even see some of those same people are still around and still vocal. 

 

The lack of official rulings is silly. 

 

Any link to this intent bit from Justin then at least? 

 

 

We all know the Red Joker is a 14 with a wild suit. When it is revealed, you choose the suit. No where does it state what card it is, only that it has the suit now. 

 

The reason this matters is that Leave It To Luck has a rather unusual wording in that it treats all Mask cards flipped/played as +2 value and Tomes as -2 value. No where else in the game do you have the language of a "Mask card". That implies to me that a "Mask card" is a card with a Mask printed on the card not one that can gain the suit. My friend disagrees and says the rules state that the Red Joker is that suit for all intents and purposes but I find nothing of that sort. 

 

So which is it? And I don't want what you THINK. If you do not have a rules reference that directly backs it up one way or another or are Justin/Rules Marshall, I'm sorry, but your opinion doesn't matter on this. It is a matter of the intent behind the wording which only Wyrd can really give us. 

 

From the attitude of your posts Im surprised you received any help at all.

[No Gods or Kings. Only Man]

It isn't a welcome back. I left the forum because of the community here and I will not be staying. I even see some of those same people are still around and still vocal. 

My God, I can't believe how civil everyone else are with that attitude of yours. And the sheer audacity of your entitlement to think you should still be provided with things like links. I doubt anyone will grieve when you go back to whence you came.

[Mason]

As noted above, the only official responses to rules questions are found in the FAQ/Errata document which is updated every two months, so that everyone can go to one location to find rulings instead of hunting for them individually across the forums (which is very unfriendly to casual or new players). 

 

Since this thread has pretty much moved away from the original question and turned into bickering, I'm closing it out.  Feel free to start a new thread if you want to discuss the subject further.