Help me explain Freikorps to my friends

[Kaptain_Konrad]

Hello all, I've been playing the Freikorps for a little in 2nd edition and my friends are getting a little frustrated by them and I haven't begun to use Hannah, Trunk, SAS, or Lazarus. I know when I add them they'll get even more frustrated and I want to tell them what the general downside to them, but I might be doing it wrong. I've said they are a jack of all trades, master of none type, Really reliant on VS and his buffs. But VS is a beast, the specialist is beastly, Trapper is good, Librarian heal a lot and keep VS up. So please help me by telling me their general play style and weaknesses. 

 

PS On a side note, They've seen VS take off his shirt to heal, then my friends Lady J, 2/3 Death Marshalls/ Exorsist. Judge all fail there Horror tests since it was at the end of the turn and had no hand. So that probably doesn't help. 

[Kadeton]

Haha, the image of VS ripping off his shirt and the whole Justice crew cringing away is pretty funny (not to mention pretty unlucky).

Anyway, I would have said that the Freikorps' general playstyle motto was, essentially, "No strengths, no weaknesses." They're supremely middle-of-the-road - middling melee, middling range, middling resilience, middling mobility. That's the jack-of-all-trades archetype, I guess - your opponent's crew will probably be much better at one aspect of the game than yours, but you'll be a bit better than them at everything else.

The crew's main weakness, if you can call it that, is their heavy reliance on Von Schill himself to hold them together. If he can be killed (which isn't easy, but is at least much easier than it was last edition) then the rest of the crew becomes significantly easier to deal with. Alternatively, dragging other members of the korps away from Von Schill and the rest of the squad makes them easy pickings. Taking out key models (like the Specialist or Librarian) is also an important consideration.

My advice to your opponents would be to find ways around the Freikorps' survival tricks - split them up from each other, bypass Armor and Hard to Kill, take out their healers, etc. Pick the thing that your crew does better than the Freikorps, and force them to play that game - pressure them into close quarters if you're into melee, make them chase you around if you're good at mobility, etc. Finally, the vast majority of their attacks are resisted by Df, so stack that if you can.

What sort of crews are your opponents playing? People might be able to give more specific advice tailored to certain Masters.

[MasterDisaster]

Kadeton has pretty much nailed it. A good way to beat your way through the Freikorps is to field models that negate their strengths. Ignoring Armour for example takes away a lot of their durability. Don't bother with Pulses or Blasts as they are all immune to damage caused by them. They are a cohesive military unit and as such they work as a team. The key to kicking their ass all over Malifaux is to divide then conquer them. Lady Justices crew can use the Death Marshalls to Charge then Pine Box key targets such as the Librarian or even Von Schill himself. The great thing is they can Pine Box stuff after charging, god knows why it's an attack action but you don't see me complaining! Once you split them up they often start to fall apart as a crew. Ressers can use Belles to Lure models away from Von Schill or drag your own models to safety. Stuff like this really helps against Freikorps. 

[Kaptain_Konrad]

The Crew's they use are Lady J, Sonnia, Perdita, Lillith, Rasputina, Mei feng, and soon to be Brewmaster.

[MasterDisaster]

Lady J, Lillith, Mei Feng and especially Perdita should be rocking Von Schill all over the place. Sonnia and Raspy are at a distinct disadvantage as they can't make any use of thier blasts. 

[Mouseketeer]

Yeah, as has been said.. but, there's a couple of key players. The trapper & Libby are too good to ignore. I'd be targeting them early. Vs is killable, but takes a lot of ap. That being said, dita, lilith, raspy and mei are all decent matchups.. I'd be looking for models that can pull models out of position and out of vs buffing range.

[Mister Shine]

You can use Pine Box on the charge.

 

If a problem comes along you must box it

When something's going wrong you must box it

It's not too late to box it
Box it good

[chris_havoc]

Playing a melee based crew The Specialist is always a good target for attacks. You neutralize one of the major ranged threats by doing so. I've not really looked intensely at the cards but the Freikorpsmann is actually pretty nasty in close quarters and probably best dealt with at range. The Librarian is a key target regardless. Losing the heal is important. Honestly I've found the best way to play against Von Schill is to group up a bit so you can gang up on single models. That's also another reason why it is so important to get rid of the Librarian and Specialist.

[Dracomax]

Sonnia should, if She knows VS is on the horizon, bring DMs and the Handler. Burning hurts Armor badly. Everburning+Witch Hunt starts to look very nice.

 

Also, take out the steam tank immediately, if not sooner. The Librarian as well—the heal is bad, but that aura is a killer. Sonnia is still fairly good at single target kills, and Mr. Hopkins is better. Think about bringing peacekeeper for the horror and the pull. Also, it's quite beefy. If you feel outhealed, bring a healer, you have access to several.

 

As for Upgrades:

Reincarnation is probably least useful against the Friekorps. You can't get any burning from witchlings blowing up, so your burning output is cut a bit right there. still, it isn't useless, just conditional.

 

Using Flame Wall to pen them in, separate them, and block LOS for their weapons is advised. If nothing else, it forces them to move, rather than sit back and gunline.

 

As I said, Everburning +Witch Hunt is going to really hurt them over the course of 2-3 rounds. You get through their armor, and most Friekorps troops are a bit light on Wds. burning +1 always goes through, Burning 4 is still doing 3 Wds a round, + whatever other attacks you get through.

 

Other than that....<broken_record>

• Build your crew for the schemes and strategies, rather than bringing a set crew.
• Focus on getting your schemes and strategy, and denying your opponent
• Only kill if it helps you with number 2. It usually does, but when you have a choice between attacking and scoring a VP, go for the VP.
• Have fun, and talk about the game afterword. Chances are there was a point your opponent was afraid you were going to do something, or that you missed an opportunity you opponent saw. If nothing else, they might be able to give you some tips. Good players usually know their own weaknesses as well as their strengths.

</broken_record>

[Scirian]

As a gremlin player, I have to say Brewmaster v. Von Schill is brutal!

Von Schill's whole crew bunched up on the opposite side of a forest.

Next turn I win initiative, Brewmaster rushes into the middle of the Korps....Drinking Contest.

For three turns he tied up four or five models with minimal support.

I've never seen a harder counter to a whole crew.

[Bengt]

I don't see how Brewmaster would be very effective since Freikorps all have 7+ Wp if near VS. And for the poison Wp debuf to be significant they have to fail Wp duels in the first place.

[rancor709]

Brewie works through the sheer volume of tests he forces at some point you run out of cards

[Bengt]

It just seems like if he is surrounded by Von Schill and 4 mixed Freikorps, who only need to flip 5+ to not partake, he is going to get stomped in short order. I can see how some players might react by scattering instead of clobbering him, allowing the opponent to pick them off, but I can't see how he could tie up a bunch of 7 Wp models.

 

If a tactic requires the opponent to flip a massive amount of 1-4 cards it doesn't seem very viable.

[Scirian]

It just seems like if he is surrounded by Von Schill and 4 mixed Freikorps, who only need to flip 5+ to not partake, he is going to get stomped in short order. I can see how some players might react by scattering instead of clobbering him, allowing the opponent to pick them off, but I can't see how he could tie up a bunch of 7 Wp models.

 

If a tactic requires the opponent to flip a massive amount of 1-4 cards it doesn't seem very viable.

Try it at negative twists.

Hangover is...really filthy.

Rancor is right.

Wanna take a swing at Brewmaster? Drink.

Wanna walk away from Brewmaster? Drink.

Wanna declare a (0) action to clear Poison? Drink.

All the while stacking poison.

 

The really beautiful/terrifying part is he has it on his melee attack, which also deals poison.

You bring Wesley and Fingers, you can drop everyone's WP by 4 while also handing out negative twists.

It is neither kind nor pleasant for the opponent if they do not know Brewie mechanics.

[bowchikawowers]

Ouch, I play Friekorps, and I do not want to face Brewmaster after reading that. Ouch! 

 

... Might invest in him though... that sounds like a ton of fun. Assuming I ever get the time to play again.

 

Anyway, I've found friekorps to be the least effective split up, the friekorpsmen once away from VS are really squishy and easy to take out. Anything with becon, lure, or push or whatever should be able to clobber them, bring them in with a group of your own models, even weaker ones, like rotten belles, can take them out if you have 2 or 3 of them around the poor hapless friekorpsman. That's how a friend of mine tends to take mine out, works almost every time. their goggles must be fogged or something for them to fall to the wiles of a lady who is literally rotting... 

 

They might also want to consider a way to get rid of scheme markers,I know there are models that can do it. Specialist can, and he can't possibly be the only one in the whole game. It's hard to lay markers down when half your crew is gone, so having them removed is pretty rough. Focusing on schemes and victory points, rather than kills, will probably win them the game. 

[MasterDisaster]

 

Anyway, I've found friekorps to be the least effective split up, the friekorpsmen once away from VS are really squishy and easy to take out. 

 

I think as a generalized statement that stands true. There are however at least 2 Freikorps members who kick ass and take names all on their own. Lazerus and Strongarm Suit are the two in question. I run them quite regularly outside of a Freikorps crew and they are always top performers. The regular troops however although very good on their own don't really reach their full potential until VS is around to buff them up, having the Steam Trunk alongside him is just the icing on the cake. 

[Bengt]

Try it at negative twists.

Hangover is...really filthy.

Rancor is right.

Wanna take a swing at Brewmaster? Drink.

Wanna walk away from Brewmaster? Drink.

Wanna declare a (0) action to clear Poison? Drink.

All the while stacking poison.

 

The really beautiful/terrifying part is he has it on his melee attack, which also deals poison.

You bring Wesley and Fingers, you can drop everyone's WP by 4 while also handing out negative twists.

It is neither kind nor pleasant for the opponent if they do not know Brewie mechanics.

And how is Brewmaster supposed to keep all these debuffs up on everybody? They require duels and he only has 3 AP (and on that critical initial turn some was used for movement). For Drinking Contest to add poison they actually have to fail those initial 5+ flips. Both hangover and poison drops off each turn as well. I didn't even think of the Steam Trunk - some heavily poisoned models can cheat to clear their poison, good catch. He will always face some models only needing to flip 5+ to act normally.

 

The original assertion was that Brewmaster by himself could lock down a Von Schill Star, if you add more resources it has a higher chance of success, but it still requires a lot of AP to get anywhere near a self sustaining state.

[daniello_s]

Couldn't agree more about Strongarm and Lazarus

 

[Solicitor 6]

This past week my Colette went up against a contingent of Friekorps (including a specialist) supporting Viktorias crew.

 

One word: Willie.

 

Demo Charge ignores armor.  For once I did not have Willie charging forward to be his usual Kamikaze self.  After sending a dove foward as a scheme marker, Colette cast Disappearing Act to send Willie out of the deployment zone up toward centerline.  From there, he was well within range of all the Freikorps and started hurling Demo Charges inflicting moderate to severe blast damage on those hired guns.

 

I like to imagine the Friekorps suits were working like aluminum foil on a baked potato in a microwave. 

[Kadeton]

One word: Willie.

 

I'm struggling to see the value of Willie in this situation - inflicting 2/3/4 damage (maybe with Burning +1) on a single target up to twice per activation just doesn't seem particularly impressive.

 

Dropped Load and Wheelbarrow of Doom damage is ignored by Freikorps Suit, as are the blasts off Demo Charge and the damage from Set Charge. You Go Near Him works, I guess, but most Freikorps would rather shoot than charge. Willie's got no special defense against getting shot to pieces, so I can't imagine he'd be a problem for long, and would struggle to kill a single Freikorpsmann before getting taken out.

 

Can you elaborate on what made him so effective?

[Bengt]

Is the  symbol, the texts "Blast" and "Blast marker" supposed to be synonymous? That was my first impression but I guess one could interpret the text on P50 that  is a subset of Blasts in general. If that was the case Wheelbarrow of Doom would still work on Freikorps. He still wouldn't be super effective though since WoD is rather short range and doesn't ignore armour.

[Scirian]

And how is Brewmaster supposed to keep all these debuffs up on everybody? They require duels and he only has 3 AP (and on that critical initial turn some was used for movement). For Drinking Contest to add poison they actually have to fail those initial 5+ flips. Both hangover and poison drops off each turn as well. I didn't even think of the Steam Trunk - some heavily poisoned models can cheat to clear their poison, good catch. He will always face some models only needing to flip 5+ to act normally.

The original assertion was that Brewmaster by himself could lock down a Von Schill Star, if you add more resources it has a higher chance of success, but it still requires a lot of AP to get anywhere near a self sustaining state.

Edit: not to derail the thread or anything, but I have mah Brewie pride

No master operates inside a vacuum.

Let us say he is the model that actively stops others in their tracks.

His support?

Student of conflict gives him more AP.

Trixiebelle lets him cheat initiative and drop massive Poison on a single target.

Franc kills a model a turn and has companion.

Freikorps at double negative twists against Franc is well...dead

The insanity of Brewmaster is he doesn't have an attack action with a stat lower than 7

He will hit you if he wants to.

His AP is highly flexible: cast hangover at range for certain negative twists or mix it up in melee to drop poison AND negative twists

Point being when I play Brewmaster he acts as the biggest tar pit.

If you want him to be successful for multiple turns, then you bring a crew to support him, true.

But if you're playing him right, there isn't as much crew to fight after turn 3

[Solicitor 6]

Maybe it was the combination of fate with the lay of the land and the tactics of my opponent.  On the first turn, the Freikorps soldiers were all bunched together so Willie's severe demo charge got two of them with the additional blast markers.  I then used his second action to attack the specialist who was on the opposite side of the opponent's side of the table and hit him with moderate.

 

Willie had cover between him and the Freikorps soldiers, so their shots kept taking negative flips.  The specialist had line of sight and range with the flamethrower, but again, he just kept missing.  Since Willie was the only thing that could penetrate their armor, the Freikorps became obsessed with taking him out, so they kept using both actions to take shots at him and miss, while he kept lobbing Demo Charges that hit for Moderate to Severe damage and had them all gone by Turn 3 thanks to an exploding dove further weakening the soldiers for the final Demo Charge.

 

3 and 4 damage does not sound like much, but consider the number of wounds Freikorps have and their reliance on their armor.  With Demo Charge allowed to ignore the armor, they were banged up pretty bad, pretty quick. 

 

Long story short (too late), my Willie took out three Freikorps with little difficulty and they did not have any impact on any of my other members of my crew.

[Bengt]

The "Freikorps suit" ability makes them ignore damage from  and . This is not "Armor" so Demo Charge does not ignore it and can only damage a single model with each attack.

 

The "Armor" they do have reduces damage by a single point, so while it's nice to have, it hardly makes it essential to use ignore armour attacks to kill them.

[Scirian]

The "Freikorps suit" ability makes them ignore damage from  and . This is not "Armor" so Demo Charge does not ignore it and can only damage a single model with each attack.

 

The "Armor" they do have reduces damage by a single point, so while it's nice to have, it hardly makes it essential to use ignore armour attacks to kill them.

This is true.

 

Armor reads:

Armor +1: Reduce all damage suffered by this model by +1, to a minimum of 1.

But the Freikorps also have their suit:

Freikorps Suit: This model may ignore damage from pulse and blast effects.

 

Willie ignores Armor, but not the Freikorps suit.

It is what gives Freikorps their edge.

They love bunching up against opponents because the biggest disadvantage: pulses and blasts, have no effect on them.