Fixxer

Oh. Dreamer, always with another trick up his pajamas. As much as I use that trigger I dont think of it during list preparation as a thing. I like it a lot though, thanks for the heads up. IMO, not sure if its worth the 1ss, but variety is the spice of life. Serena has really added a dynamic element to building Dreamer crews, the options are practically endless. Really exciting times for us Dreamer fans.

Just reading this now and had to input that the Illuminated doesnt need Warped Reality (if that's what you meant by twisted reality) for anything except being able to deploy from the shadows. He will already heal within 6" of Dreamer as ALL friendly models heal within his aura. Also, his Empty Night tactical action can target minions or nightmares so if you are looking to trigger stitches on the Illuminated to heal, you could do that anyway because of their minion status. I dont own any Illuminated so dont have much input on them, but you mentioned warped reality, which I do have some input on. I'd say leave the Warped Reality for models like Mature Nephilim, Hooded rider, or the Mysterious Emissary. Ive tried with all but the hooded (he isnt assembled yet) and its worked wonders. More so that Daydreams are able to Lead Nightmare on them and possibly accomplice for some quick re-positioning / charging. Empty Night's fast trigger is really something on those models too. My opponents thought it was really weird that I didnt bring a conflux on my emissary the past few games in lieu of Warped Reality. Having the emissary up the field to get an early and close hungry land marker deployed, if you have the card, is a huge disruption. If he feels over extended, Daydreams or even Dreamer can get up there to pull him back with pushes. He's also tough enough to be a nice anchor for counter charges if they try to eliminate him early. Mature Nephilim is in the list also and acts as a nice deterrent as he is typically lurking close enough for a counter charge. Empty Night on these models with Dreamer is a nice option, but I've found that the real value comes form being able to push these dudes with Daydreams, so perhaps trying on Illuminated might not be bad for THAT reason. I mean they're solid 7ss minions and considered the gold standard for that slot among many players.

Doppelganger for cheating initiative, she is my crutch and one of my favorite models in the game. She can be very useful in a Lucius crew for getting initiative or copying one of those Thralls or Graves, if you get him. Im also a big fan of Tannen and Graves. Tannen gets a bad rep from some folks, he's hit or miss. I use him to deter alpha strikes. His cooler ability has stopped many aggressive models in their tracks. That extra card to cheat is a serious drain on resources and they'll be forced to try and kill him first, which puts their attacker in a horrible position typically. Chatty bubble can be really good in Ply and SoA. Graves might be one of the best 8ss beaters in the game. His push is so useful against friendlies and enemies. Df4 sucks but Ruthless, Armor+1, black blood, and HTK all make up for that. Obeying him with deliver orders and giving him a focus before he shows an enemy the door or beats them with a fence post can be wicked strong.

Smugglers have a ton of card draw and allow you to SS for cards and keep the best 5 and the 8. If you have other card draw mechanics, its like free SS's. The Swap is going to be more powerful than anyone expects when it comes out at the right moment. It'll be a game changer, 3" to tie up whoever this models swapped around and the other model could be out of position or put next to one of your beaters.. A lot of power there. If you tie up one of their good models at just outside 2" it can be a REAL problem. Lets just Say the opponent gives you an even card both times you win the duel... that's 4 cards...Lets say they cheat to win these duels? Draw 2 cards for Buy Low, Sell High. I mean, what more do you want? Up Sheet's Creek can totally deny Setup or search the ruins. It can disrupt summoners trying to capitalize on a pile of corpse or scrap markers... Situationally awesome. Gremlin wave 5 models are fantastic, they are not overtly killy if that's what you are all looking for.

I wouldnt focus too hard on the reactivate trick, its nice and works. BUT what I see as being the value of this model "send you.... to the OTHER WORLD" With a trigger you are giving 2 minions or enforcers Faded: After this model suffers damage from an enemy, reduce to 0, and remove this condition. This is really solid... I'd save a 7 for this every turn. His trigger lets you cast the Reactivate spell, if you targeted a Swampfiend with that action. This makes that reactivating model harder to kill and more likely to get their reactivate before dying. Bayou Gators have Ml expert too, so... a reactivating Bayou gator with 6 attacks and a condition to ignore a damage flip is no joke. This model makes Bayou Gators viable in a kill based pool. There are also many pools in GG18' where insignificant models wont be a liability. Wild Boars arent horrible with the Faded condition either. 8 Wds is a lot of damage to do and with one damage flip being negated, I assume you'll get the reactivate off. 2/4/6 will catch a severe from time to time, especially with so many attacks. *In regards to the post and crew. I think Wong benefits big from the bokors being around for those . I think that fitting a boar or gator in there might offer more flexibility in terms of early game disruption/ AP drain/beater. They’ll be forced to deal with them if you get reactivate and or faded off. Perhaps swap a bug or banjo for one of them see if it’s viable.

Ive had really good luck with him in certain Dreamer crews that have the scheme pool to suit his play style. Typically put a thousand faces on him and keep a stone set aside for when its time to switch out so I can attach "On Dreaming Wings" gaining +1 Wk and flight. If we have Symbols of Authority as a strategy and Covert Breakthrough that'd be when I'd consider this particular build. On turn 1 (after he's activated already) or 2 (before he activates) use Dreamer to give him fast. Then I like to position a daydream close enough to push him (out of a combat, if necessary) and accomplice into him to activate. He'll drop a thousand faces for on dreaming wings, (this is mainly to not telegraph my plan even though most will expect this... bluffing can be fun too) At this point he can move up to 24" with flight, he'll be in your opponents back field all alone ready to start dropping markers and pull support models out of the main scrum in the middle. Being terrifying and having 10 Wds, he is going to pull something back that's capable of killing him, which pulls effective models form the main fight. A bonus in symbols of authority is that he's an enforcer so if they took punish the weak, it'll make the decision harder for them. Typically this Dreamer crew is summoning too, which means Insidious Madnesses will be threatening the opposite side Copellius is, just to spread out my opponents crew and force more decisions than they have models, hopefully. In a bluffing circumstance, you just keep him in the middle fight and drop thousand faces for RET EYE or something else. I know he's a 1/3/4 but he has some nice triggers and an attack value of 6. He can hit stuff and with dreamer able to give him extra attacks and lower Wp of threats, he can be really tough to take down. He's certainly not the easiest model to use, but I think he is a lot like the master he comes with; At first glance and without practice, its difficult to see the power. But "in game" when theoryfaux is less applicable, I see him doing really well.

Very excited for this!

Reva with Beyond Death and Decaying Aura, is a rather effective way of dealing with NB masters too. Maybe not quite as effective as a vs Ht but it can wreck as its a Ca vs Df or Wp. I dont think its a bad thing that the wave 4 masters are solid at what they do. I was just saying, they all seem to come up in conversations about being really good picks except Parker, obviously. I mean, vs Zipp its a good idea to try and get LCB out and use his Wd as a buffer for Dreamer. He is less vulnerable to Zipps shenanigans, not saying the player can get around it but its going to be more difficult and drain AP. I think Aether Connection and a full cache will be necessary along with spamming Alps and Daydreams to clutter the field with card drain. Daydreams and other WP debuffs that will be present offer good hand control as terrifying, smother, and manipulative duels will be more difficult. Or they can spend AP clearing them out which is always nice. Daydreams can also push LCB around which can be clutch in protecting him or putting him in position to get the most out of his AP. Generally if i have a high I would try to keep it for a Disembowel trigger to put further stress on resources. Removing the cards from the hand of a master like Zipp is extremely important. The key with a master that you know you cant kill is that you'll have to deal with them the entire game. Most discard mechanics can target any model which will be rather difficult to defend and will leave Zipp without the cards needed to win a dual or drain him of his . Honestly the only discard mechanics I can think of would be manipulative or terrifying duals as most players dont like to fail actions or be paralyzed. Smother and slow can be let go at times. Again, not a hard counter but just crap to make the Gremlin have to deal with. Gremlins mostly offer a similar issue to Dreamer with so I dont see tooling too hard against any of them backfiring. Dreamer is rather versatile, he just relies on a decent # of 7s in hand and his positioning. Sure, shooting isnt going to affect Zipp all that much but it forces his crew to be weary as to where they can be. If the game require interacting in a certain area, Zipp cant do that. So its imperative that the player position his shooters/gun line correctly. Really, with Mctavish its both because his Ml attack can be copied too with Ml6 Rg:3. Doppelganger is nice as she can copy 8" away. Changlings would be good blast targets, so you gotta take risks somewhere. Sure Zipp can use terrain and blast off again and heal, I mean, that's in a perfect world, or living the dream. Opponents still fear a RJ or BJ at the wrong time and pressure is pressure. Shooting isnt completely ineffective now. All in all, I do think that Zipp is solid against NB masters in general I just dont think that Dreamer is as easy to kill as you made it sound in your original post because the NB "mostly" controls when LCB comes out and he can be more difficult for Zipp to deal with.

As for playing Dreamer into Zipp. Shooty Dreamer" would be best, he can summon Alps and Day dreams to turn into Chompy on T2 Early, or T1 if he gets his lucky SH off to wake. The alps and day dreams will slow down your opponent and help you out activate them or at least, catch up. When Dreamer is not on the table and Chompy is... Zipp is garbage. Ht 4 on Chompy, sure, he can Zipp zap him, but we are more concerned with "Up we Go" right? Dont discount Dreamer too hard in this matchup, he has some play here.

I do see the issue here, but its like any other wave 4 Master. Zipp is so mobile, it can be difficult to handle. The common consensus coming from the players that use these masters is that theyre very card and suit dependent. If you take away a few cards in their hand and make them use SS early, they will struggle late game. Not sure how much this helps, but generally that is the case. Basically, if you know you are facing a wave 4 master, you will need a discard mechanic present. If these crews dont have their suits or SS left they will lack resources that put them over the top. We Malifaux players have a tendency to want to kill everything, sometimes resource drain is more important. For example, Zipp can get rid of conditions if he discards 2 cards, we may see that as him getting out of a paralized or a Rooted, but he is now down cards, which should make him more manageable. Plan A is never going to work anyway, as NB, improvisation is key and we certainly have the elements For NB, I think incorporating a decent amount of Shooting should help against this crew. Changelings, Angel eyes, Mctavish, trappers, doppelganger. With all the mimics, we should be able to be flexible in our damage output. Mctavish is best for that, as his ML and SH attacks are pretty solid. Ignoring terrain and engagements with his rifle is pretty solid against mobility. Not that its a hard counter, you'll need to play it correctly, but its a start.

Im totally down with writing stuff on the cards with a marker and just going with it that way. Unfortunately the formality of events can be tricky with something like that. I dont think a TO would really enforce the rule of needing the up to date card so close to an errata but you never know. With that, I have been noticing that other factions were also lacking a full set of cards too and a minion or two only had a single print while others got the full 2-3 cards. The thing with Survivors was that I was taking one at 5ss and now that they are 4ss I plan on running 2-3. I foresee them outclassing a standard Bayou Gremlin in terms of reliability in GG18. Its not the biggest deal, but again is another step I have to take to keep my collection current and "event" ready. I would have also gladly paid more than the $2 if we could get ALL the cards at once. Just my two cents. I love this game and never try to find reasons to be negative about my experience with it but this is kind of annoying.

I just received my updated cards and there is only a single survivor card. There are 3 of these models and at 4 stones I was planning on running all 3. Perhaps at an event too. The bushwhackers and moon shinobi have all the cards, why not survivors? It’s not the biggest deal ever but is enough.

Tuco is absolutely scheme pool dependent. This all looks like what I assume can happen with him. If they spend high value models dealing with him, then he is doing his job keeping our other high value targets in miss matches. If they ignore him he'll just go drop markers in their backfield starting on T2. Of COURSE this is in a perfect world, there is always resistance, and its about making the right decision in the moment, which takes practice and experience. Thanks for your input. The Claw is very similar, perhaps BOTH could be fun. More options to put enemies on -s to DF could be a nice strategy in a murder based crew. I have him, he seems fun to paint, perhaps I'll add him to the mix too. Thanks for the heads up.

As a Zoraida player myself I absolutely never play her without Will o the Wisps. 2 at least ,sometimes 3. With the addition of powerful control you really dont want Zoraida wasting her AP summoning dolls. Other than that, your plan looks solid. You could forego a couple changelings for Wisps or one of the Illuminated. I do like the illuminated for obeying an enemy to attack it and cheating a low card to lose a horror duel and paralyzing them. Not something you'll do all the time, but I think its a solid play when the opportunity arises.

And how quickly a year goes by... Its really a fantastic method to keep the game interesting. Kudos to the developer who thought of that one.

Heard some guys talking Dark horses on a podcast, thought I’d share mine. I’m a NB player and run Dreamer, Zoraida, and Lilith mainly. I think this is one of the more underrated and underused models in the game. I may be wrong but I’ve never even seen anyone take him or even mention him for consideration in a crew. I think this is a miss by NB players as I see his value in a couple of schemes that are as common as they come, Leave your Mark and Frame for Murder. If they are both in the pool your opponent will be forced to make difficult decisions about what to do with him. Df5 Wp5 Wd8 Wk5 Cg5 He is disguised (amazing) and has black blood. He deploys from the shadows, can’t interact on T1 but that’s no big deal, as he’s in position already and can activate late in order to take best advantage of his forward position. His Df trigger gives a -1 wp in pulse 4 after taking damage which segways nicely into his 0 action which is a Resisted by WP. His 0 action is a CA6 TN12 push that has a trigger to give -flips to Df duels. Tuco has a sh6 shotgun that 2/3*/4** with a solid trigger for yet another WP duel. His MI5 is a 2/3/5 with A flay trigger. This is all solid IMO for a 7 stone model. Need a lot of suits to make him work, I get that... but that can be true for most mid range models. As an independent operator and early threat that can situationally cheat most of your cards to wreak havoc on an enemy crew early can be devastating. I plan on using him in normal rotation as I just picked up the model. Perhaps in lieu of doppelgänger as she is becoming a crutch that I don’t think is producing as much as I’d like. Anyone else use Tuco or have any other dark horses ? Am I missing something with him?

Doppelganger... no question. There are times a different 7ss model would be better for the pool/master. Either way, she is like my NB totem enforcer now... I take her because she is really good, I'm not saying she isnt. BUT, she is a crutch of mine. I could be better if I learned to play without her from time to time.

I have had quite a bit of luck running the Emissary with Dreamer. Firstly its a strong enforcer that can tank really well and leaves all the stones for Dreamer. I am a big fan of strong enforcers backing Dreamer up for this very reason... Widow Weaver and Nekima make appearances, but for the most part I stick with Graves, Teddy, Emissary, type models. I typically take the Mysterious Conflux to allow my stitched together and summoned changelings to have +flips to their attacks, its worked really well for me. Obviously being able to summon changelings is paramount as you can run Growing up dreamer and not worry about an inability to summon fresh minions to the table. I think changelings are some of the best minions in the NB and focusing on this summon has been pretty powerful for me on the table . I do realize that a Scheme marker is needed and you're using a mask that you cannot stone for, but with Tannen on the field, it makes it a lot easier to pull off with a little set up. NB always relies on prior planning, so this shouldn't be too far out. Tannen typically lays the scheme marker on T1 and 2 for a changeling to be summoned anyway, so he works out for the most part. A nice target later in the game to bait people into your kill box too. +flips on your minions with "leave it to luck" in play is nice synergy that all seems to come together with this build. Also I have been summoning more alps lately and forgot how annoying those little dudes can be. Valuable in game flexibility with a card drain mechanic going off, engaging enemies and establishing/regaining activation control. Not being able to summon anything better and needing guaranteed waking, this comes in handy when you need to get the chain activate off (Sleep cycles)*a must take now! . Usually going for Alps early game not to kill my puke-snake then daydreams later in game as they have a 2/2/3 attack now... YES! The mysterious Emissary gets a bad rap for the most part, except by NB players, LOL. Kind of weird to me, but I think he is an excellent option for Dreamer led crews. Maybe not an auto take but certainly has viability in competitive play.

Just my opinion.... The First Mate is an amazing henchman who makes it into every Zipp list I have played so far. His leap is only a 4 and with the upgrade to eat enemy scheme markers, he is a model your opponent MUST deal with. That pulls attention away from Zipp, which ultimately makes him better. I highly recommend including The First Mate over a Sammy or Francois LaCroix. . Versatility and mobility are what makes any Zipp crew solid. *a good control hand helps too*

@Ludvig OK. I understand what you mean by power level only being relevant in a game with two veteran players. I was just speaking freely on an experience that gave me the opportunity to grow into a better player. Didnt mean to insinuate that Mei was a top tier master or anything. Just that she caused frustration to me the first few times I played against her. Our meta isnt the largest so please pardon my limited scope. Reading the cards and seeing it play out on the table are two different things... for me at least. But I do feel that Mei Fang is a strong master because of the - flips aura that effects her friendlies. Many masters can hand out - flips, just not to Most of their crew all at once AND for CA+SH actions. Thats heavy and its a challenge even for a good player to figure out where to funnel AP into focus and what to target in the bubble to start taking it apart.

Truth. This topic just sticks out with me in regards to Mei Fang because she can be frustrating to face for a newer player that doesn't understand certain aspects. + and - flips arent an end all either... they can go either way depending on luck. Good post.

As for the topic, I think most has to do with player skill and the crew support choices. Some masters arent as good in themselves/alone/solo but have better synergies with other models. 50 stones leaves quite a bit of room for flexibility as to who you bring with a "bad" master. Sure some have to be better than others but with so much variation a skilled player will find a way. The game of chicken is typical in most war games I've ever played. Those models do die, can whiff, and cannot be everywhere. If you think that's boring, dont bring expensive beaters and try the being everywhere strategy with smaller models. Luckily due to schemes and strats, I see both approaches completely viable.

I typically see vented steam twice in a single turn, which means that you'd need to use a henchman, focus and burn a stone to get to that straight flip for the duel. (I use McTavish or Angel eyes typically) OR if you are lucky enough to have a master that hands out obey or focus, you can set yourself up for success. I see what you are saying but 3x vented steam is overkill and eliminates Mei Fangs ability to really do anything else AND dictates her having to activate early/first. I was just offering the counter to that gimmick which most newer players overlook (myself included). I dont see a lot of focusing outside of 10T and never see people using stones to add a +flip, typically its a suit. AND when the Mei Fang player knows that you know how to get around their 1 or even 2 vents, they play differently with her which is the edge in defeating her "castle" play style.

Gotta find the value of focus or spending a stone for positive flips to get around vented steam. The +flips (from focus) carry over to damage, so just getting through the negatives to actually hit means that when you do, damage should be vast. Took me a game or two to figure that out against Mei Fang, otherwise its an impossible bubble to approach.

I second Thana, I dont see anything to make your opponent fear rushing you. A teddy with a few daydreams to push into a "gobble you up" position is key to keeping Dreamer form getting rushed. Copellius should be swapped for teddy as I find him with Widow Weaver is a fine combo. (1) Playtime was made for teddy and has gotten me a ton of cards, ups his respect factor from opponents as its not just damage he is going to do. Nekima , mature nephilim, or even Graves would give you a little more punch. Certainly lacking a tough model and a model that puts out damage. My Typical Summoning Dreamer list looks like. Dreamer, DoP, On Wings of Darkness, Otherwordly. 2 Daydreams Widow Weaver (upgrades) Teddy (upgrade) Doppel Waldgeist I typically summon 2 models on the first turn to keep my waking at a point where I can still heal 2 on activating models. Then it depends on the schemes and strats AND the cards I have in my hand as to what I summon. Litilu, Lelu, Stitched, and Insidious are my mains and require an 11 max. With a 7 stone pool and daydreams to sack for a mask, high cards are all you need. Take what you can get as an activation is an activation and they are all significant models after the turn they are summoned, your opponent will have to deal with them. Stitched together are the best thing you can summon in terms of damage output and tricks, theyre solid. They heal, gamble, (lose) reactivate, heal again. Just keep them in that 6" aura. Dont forget that dreamer also has a shooting attack that is 12" range that triggers auto paralyze on models with WP 4 or less. You need a crow though. If people want to alpha strike you with WP 5 tough guys, a single Daydream or web marker in range can give dreamer a really nice activation in shutting down a model. This is an underutilized action on his card that can save you in those alpha strike moments. Looks like you are playing Perdita and Ophelia who both shoot insanely well. Are you playing with a good amount of terrain and not letting your opponent get away with shooting you in the open. Calculate those negative flips.