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Not to derail the whole thread, but in our area that is not the list we would use. Maybe it speaks to the strength of outcast. Ours would be... Top: Daw (but never against TT due to all the , and has a hard time against Gremlins as they can usually flip our curse and runaway due to reckless) Second: Viks (around here you almost never see them slinged in turn 1, and thus they last longer, and the kill better then Levi post cuddle), Parker (too many scheme markers needed for him to be 3rd teir) Third: Hamelin (could be wrong here, he does not get a lot of play, but he also does not finish a lot of games in the 1.45-2 hr time limit), Tara (looking better now), Von Schill (does it all ok, nothing great) 4th: Misaki (Viks do it better), Wrath So you can look at this as you choose next leader. Just a difference of opinion and different local meta. Steven

Agree with all, but most are expensive. When I look at outcast for example, the bandido at 5 stones does a great job at taking down scheme runners. PM does a nice job on one runner too for even less. What about Bloodwretchs? 5 stones, walk 6, hit sorta hard? Anyone try them as anti-scheme runners? Not sure they could handle a necro punk, but very few things can.

All, With more scheme needing markers I am seeing more scheme runners I want to stop. Last night the PM did a nice job neutralizing one, but then had to run from him and could not stop the second. I then had to divert Nekima, who took care of it but that is a lot of points. Lets say you see covert breakthrough and leave your mark in the pool, what are some good value anti-scheme runners? I think that the 7 SS knights might be good, tanky, psudo lure, but I have not tired them. Other thoughts? Thanks, Steven

While you leave room for Mad Dog, I find he is almost an auto-include with Parker. He saves a stone on most turns as he is the target of black market or highwayman. He also brings a way to remove cover that makes everyone fear him and Parker. I would also point out that envy does very well with Parker. You are putting out scheme markers so envy get the +1 shoot and the auto trigger for , plus Mad dog is clearing out the cover. These 3 plus doc have been making up the core of most of my Parker crews.

Found this old rules question but not really answered... http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/108699-firing-squad-injustice/#comment-839773

OK, just reread whole FAQ to find something...Found this... 70) If a Trigger on an Action causes a damage flip, does that count as part of the original Action? Is it modified by things like the Accuracy Modifier and Focus? Yes, Triggers that cause damage flips are a part of the Action which caused them and any damage flip on such a Trigger would retain any modifiers to the original flip including Accuracy, Focus, cover, etc. So triggers are part of that attack, and modifiers apply to the trigger. So now I think the +1 modifiers would count on triggers. Thoughts?

So I have a different way of looking at it. Firing squad part that matters is "When this model suffers damage from an attack action it suffers +1 damage". That to me means damage from attack action, not damage from a trigger on an attack action. For bigger they are "...models actions which deal damage deal +1 to non-masters models with one or more upgrades attached." Again I don't see it applies to triggers. So...Daw attacks a minion with no upgrades...First attack hits and does min damage of 2. No bonus for Bigger they are, or for attaching firing squad as that will happen after this action is completed. Second attack hits and does min damage of 4 this time. 2 base from the noose attack, +1 for firing squad, and +1 for bigger they are. Then the trigger of removing the firing squad would occur and do 2 more damage. Just to put that in perspective...over 2 attack, with a CA of 7 and only doing min damage that 8. An average of 4 each attack, again with CA7. That's harder than most masters. To say that it should be more seems way outside the norm. That's how I see it. Please tell me how I am wrong so Daw will do more damage. Thanks Steven

In this case I would say PMF is just wrong, not using shorthand.

So when I and a friend read fugue state and we ready how it is described in pull my finger we can't get the 2 to agree. I will ignore pull my finger for now and just focus on the card. It says, "Monotony: Enemy models within 8 which declare an interact action must succeed on a TV 15 WP duel after resolving the action or suffer 1 damage" So if they fail the Wp duel they can still make the interact action, they just take 1 damage (and 1 for each misery aura as well for failed Wp duel). This is way worse than what pmf says which is "Fugue State - This upgrade focuses on controlling the opponent's ability to score. It provides an aura that forces a TN15 Wp duel before enemy interact actions may be taken" Is PMF just really wrong or am I missing something? Thanks, Steven

Is there a master list of all cards that have been errata-ed and when? That way we have a single reference point to check to see if our opponents should have new cards?

Great call on the free mask if I want to summon an alp or 2. They may see the table a lot more now.

Honestly GG 2016 hurt dreamer more with the change to neutralize the leader.

I think I may be more likely to take Me. Tannen now. On turn 1 I often aim to summon 2 and walk once. One DD and a stone or 5 is not so bad. Turn 2 is the turn I often summon 3. Again use one DD and a stone or 5 is not so bad. Then 3rd summon may drop down to just a new DD. So if I can't get a 5 it will cost 2 extra stones that I could have saved and maybe just a DD instead of a IM or stitched. Not so bad...Levi, Collette, roosters, austringers, and belles all got it much worse.

Dreamer could never summon 3 teddies in a turn. Could only be done if he had a 13 or the red joker. Tannen only made a card be worth +2 so a 13 of crows is still just a 13 and not enough for a teddy. Hope no one did that to you.

So convince me I am wrong, but I still don't see taking Montresor. So he does damage a little early and takes maybe one more hit. I don't see it as enough to take him over Hannah. Thought?

A couple of things...You have to take out the support parts, old cranky, Lenny, slop haulers. NB can do that with lures/Lilith upgrades, or speed (tots, Mature). Keep in mind that certain schemes are very against them are hard and some are easy. I find catch and release hard (lots of activations and that darn reckless), but hunting party can be easy. Last week I had the great game of losing all but 2 of my army to Reva, but won 8-2. The point being that you don't have to kill them, just get your points. I am trying to figure out Pandora myself ( different thread on that), but I think she could do very nice. I have had Lilith, nekema, doppelganger, 6 tots, totem of choice army win against a really good zip crew. High activations, board control, pull power with Lilith, copy lure from his trixebell, and grow. There is no way around it, gremlins in good hands are the scariest faction for us to play, then Resers (we don't have enough good condition removeal). Biggest thing is learn what all those crazy guys do, and be ready. Hope it helps

The 2 abombs just for activation control?

I have tried to come up with some good list, but they all seem bad. Can anyone post a army lead by Daw, Parker, or Viks and used A&D that works? You can even give the schemes and strategy you would use it. Thanks again

So Goth...the answer is Sorrows just do it a little bit better than an IM, as Sorrows could go a little bit more than 8 inched and a IM could walk 7in? But they are more likely to die than an IM.

I can see how sorrow can be good at a lot a schemes, but for the same price you have the IM who seems like they would be just as good at the same schemes. Please enlighten me to why/when a sorrow is better at the schemes? Or is it that they are just as good as the IM, and bring more to Pandora, but Joel you talk about taking them with other masters too, so I am totally missing it.

What are people thoughts on the Sorrows? I always seem to have a hard time taking one when I could take an IM. Am I just missing it?

OK so Sue bit me hard in the rear last night. My opponent pointed out that Sue's anti cast aura would make my Jack Daw have a to his torment only obey. I think he is right. Have other just missed this or they work around it or what? For reference it says "Until end of the Turn, Ca Attack actions which target friendly models within 3 suffer to the attack flip."

So here is a list with roles filled in... 50 SS Neverborn Crew Pandora - On Wings Of Darkness (1) or Aether Connection based on if neutralize is in pool - The Box Opens (2) - Fears Given Form (1) Job - get in their face and kill and lock down, control activation with incite Primordial Magic (2) Job - Extra card, extra activation, maybe be a marker, maybe make thing insignificant Mature Nephilim (11) - A Thousand Faces (1) this becomes Mimic Blessing or Retributions eye if anti armor needed Job - Kill Doppleganger (7) Job - Win initiative, copy big weapon, or drop scheme The Illuminated (7) Job - Second beater Insidious Madness (5) X 2 Job - Scheme runner, and help Pandora live The Illuminated (7) or Insidious Madness (5) to taste Cash would be 5 or 7 based on last choice Thoughts and thanks.

Sorry...added to wrong thread.

So we have no competitive Pandora players in our area. What are some of the competitive builds out there. You can pick any strategy and schemes you want for this question. Thanks