Rostislav Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Just now, jphealy said: And you have maybe 5 models in your army? That list would get out activated and destroyed hard. I believe the term for that is cute. It will work once and then never again. 7 models. The list works pretty well. When you are in opponents deployment zone on turn 1 you don't worry much about being outactivated. You just kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 So here is a fun question. Is Hoffman going to become one of the most popular choices for guild into guild? Or do we just do enough damage to get around the non-reducable armor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostislav Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, 4thstringer said: So here is a fun question. Is Hoffman going to become one of the most popular choices for guild into guild? Or do we just do enough damage to get around the non-reducable armor? My favourite master is Sonnia, but i expect hard play Sonnia vs Hoffman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, 4thstringer said: So here is a fun question. Is Hoffman going to become one of the most popular choices for guild into guild? Or do we just do enough damage to get around the non-reducable armor? Lady Justice won't have much trouble dealing with him. Pinebox the biggest meanie and kill the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Myyrä said: Lady Justice won't have much trouble dealing with him. Pinebox the biggest meanie and kill the rest. To be fair, that is currently my solution to everything with guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 5 hours ago, icebreaker said: P.S. promises + new hofman's jump looks very interesting, his mi attack have good damage thanks to power loop and promises it can have MI 7 with . It looks pretty tough @Kharnage! Preach! I'll mostly be trying stuff I already did with the emissary and burying friendly models, but at the cost of 2ss+master AP, not 10ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphealy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Myyrä said: Lady Justice won't have much trouble dealing with him. Pinebox the biggest meanie and kill the rest. Why why why do people think the Pinebox is so good? Swordfigher Vendetta is much better. Coffin effectively lets you remove 1 model that game. Swordfighter + Vendetta does that basically every turn. Its such a damage Cuddle on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, jphealy said: Why why why do people think the Pinebox is so good? Don't get me wrong, I like Swordfighter Vendetta better, but Hoffman (for example) standing next to a riotbreaker/peacekeeper with a malifaux child giving him his patchwork plating with advanced harness is going to unavoidably reduce 4 damage a hit. Before soulstone use. One duel with a value of 7 into his WP and I don't have to deal with that for basically the rest of the game. As a Lilith player, getting one value 7 attack into WP 5 in to box my master for basically the rest of the game would be a nightmare. It gets rid of problem children who like to avoid dying, is basically what I'm saying. Swordfighting Vendetta is good, but (and you have no idea how hard it is for me to say this) there's more to life than damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphealy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Kharnage said: Don't get me wrong, I like Swordfighter Vendetta better, but Hoffman (for example) standing next to a riotbreaker/peacekeeper with a malifaux child giving him his patchwork plating with advanced harness is going to unavoidably reduce 4 damage a hit. Before soulstone use. One duel with a value of 7 into his WP and I don't have to deal with that for basically the rest of the game. As a Lilith player, getting one value 7 attack into WP 5 in to box my master for basically the rest of the game would be a nightmare. It gets rid of problem children who like to avoid dying, is basically what I'm saying. Swordfighting Vendetta is good, but (and you have no idea how hard it is for me to say this) there's more to life than damage. If it could bury leaders I would agree. Problem is its still trading damage every turn to remove one model. Which can still get back out if they have the right cards and you don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, jphealy said: If it could bury leaders I would agree. I'm an ape. I missed that bit. Changes the game quite a good deal, actually. That being said, there are still things that could be procrastinated to be dealt with later. Lady J managed to deal damage before these upgrades, so I don't know how far behind she's going to feel without them, but I haven't seen it in action quite yet. And into incorporeal models, it's actually pretty good with that cast action she gets against buried models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, jphealy said: If it could bury leaders I would agree. Problem is its still trading damage every turn to remove one model. Which can still get back out if they have the right cards and you don't. They really can't get out for good. They would have to essentially pass 4 Wp duels against Wp or Ca 7. Not really going to happen. The only practical way to release the model is kill Lady Justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphealy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Yea its a long shot but its still gimping Lady J's strength for a one trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 minute ago, jphealy said: Yea its a long shot but its still gimping Lady J's strength for a one trick. I don't mind gimping her damage a bit if it means I don't have to deal with a Peacekeeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 It's tough not taking badge, but man after you've killed a model with swordfighter, getting the chance to take out another beater is pretty wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphealy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Just now, Myyrä said: I don't mind gimping her damage a bit if it means I don't have to deal with a Peacekeeper. Its a lot more than a bit. Your basically giving up 2-3 attacks most turns. Thats a lot of damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, jphealy said: Its a lot more than a bit. Your basically giving up 2-3 attacks most turns. Thats a lot of damage. Are you referring to extra attacks from vendetta? They aren't as good as her normal attacks and come with extra limitations, so 2-3 seems like an overestimation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Lady J vs hoff being the power guild v guild matchup. Who woulda thunk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I disagree with pinebox and personally love the upgrade. Last game I played with Justice FFM was in the pool. I ended up boxing Toshiro for the entire game denying my opponent 3pts and removing an annoying model to take out with 1 activation. I've did a similar thing to a rail golem (was not the FFM target, but 1 action to pretty much take it out of the game). Edit: Add Francisco and her totem in the crew and good luck getting out of that box. I played against it once where she boxed my Fingers, I lost the duel to escape when I flipped a RJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: Lady J vs hoff being the power guild v guild matchup. Who woulda thunk it. It gets better. They're both dispatching death marshals to stuff the other in a box, disregarding the giant honkin' greatsword and horde of stompybots respectively. 36 minutes ago, Kharnage said: I'm an ape. I missed that bit. Changes the game quite a good deal, actually. That being said, there are still things that could be procrastinated to be dealt with later. Lady J managed to deal damage before these upgrades, so I don't know how far behind she's going to feel without them, but I haven't seen it in action quite yet. And into incorporeal models, it's actually pretty good with that cast action she gets against buried models. And if Lady J ends up winning the pinebox slap fight--which isn't a given since Hoffman will have range advantage if she is silly enough to get caught at her charge range--she's at least got a 1/2/3 damage track when she opens the lid and pokes the sword around in there. A recruiter could get a queller buff and hit for full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrans Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 15 hours ago, jphealy said: And you have maybe 5 models in your army? That list would get out activated and destroyed hard. I believe the term for that is cute. It will work once and then never again. Mate, that is the sort of thing most hoff lifts rely on. Cute maybe, but it is a thing. Emissary is almost a universal take for Hoffman, giving you Df6 and Sh6, you then add in 2 more big beaters. Hoff activates, gets a free looped in agent ( Emissary), then loop for 1AP (make sure you get a tome somewhere) then get the free one off. You then have 2 AP left with Hoff. Don't activate hoff until end of turn 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 15 hours ago, jphealy said: Why why why do people think the Pinebox is so good? Swordfigher Vendetta is much better. Coffin effectively lets you remove 1 model that game. Swordfighter + Vendetta does that basically every turn. Its such a damage Cuddle on her. It's not a massive damage cuddle in my experience. If we assume we use the stone used on a mask to get a ram instead you get 6 damage from a single Vendetta declared (and you might need two high cards to push that through instead of one) compared to 5 damage from just using the crits on the original attack which also saves you having to use the card. If the target has a single point of armour crit strike is tied for damage and if they have armor +2 declaring crit strike is ahead (apart from not needing to cheat as much). You might also topdeck a high ram which lets you use the stone to actually score the same damage as two attacks. There are situations where extra attacks are really useful too, like htk but I don't think it's as easy as saying vendetta is straight up damage added. If there's a high likelyhood of facing someone like Joss I would say the possibility of just burying him and keeping him gone is better than trying to hit through that armor +2 and htk with soulstone use and risk reactivating him. If facing Molly spamming those horrible htk undead I would lean towards Vendetta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 59 minutes ago, Ludvig said: It's not a massive damage cuddle in my experience. If we assume we use the stone used on a mask to get a ram instead you get 6 damage from a single Vendetta declared (and you might need two high cards to push that through instead of one) compared to 5 damage from just using the crits on the original attack which also saves you having to use the card. If the target has a single point of armour crit strike is tied for damage and if they have armor +2 declaring crit strike is ahead (apart from not needing to cheat as much). You might also topdeck a high ram which lets you use the stone to actually score the same damage as two attacks. There are situations where extra attacks are really useful too, like htk but I don't think it's as easy as saying vendetta is straight up damage added. If there's a high likelyhood of facing someone like Joss I would say the possibility of just burying him and keeping him gone is better than trying to hit through that armor +2 and htk with soulstone use and risk reactivating him. If facing Molly spamming those horrible htk undead I would lean towards Vendetta. The deduction relies on the assumption that Lady Justice would be doing weak damage, but that really isn't the most probable case with the amount of she has for damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 21 minutes ago, Myyrä said: The deduction relies on the assumption that Lady Justice would be doing weak damage, but that really isn't the most probable case with the amount of she has for damage. Still haven't gotten my upgrade deck so I forgot that she can get even more positives now and just jump away from any target she doesn't like. I guess swordfighter really ups Vendetta's usefulness. There's going to be a lot of crying over new LJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Plaid Hoffman a lot in gg16 so please take following with a pinch of salt. the 'no reduce' aura is great, and helps him especially early game, but it's not the panacea for all ills, especially for the cyborgs. It's really to stop you being auto-shanked by Outcasts in particular. most times I will be taking OSA over this, but it's great to have in the back pockets. Cannot imagine dropping field mechanic or arcane assets for this, I just love my metal gamin to much for that, and a nimble watcher or ryle :). cyborg doesn't appeal to me - yes it adds diversity but I'm not sure it's super needed unless you are starting with the Hof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchrisobrien Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 The point of the upgrades are twofold: to increase the power of under performing masters, and to add diversity to the play style. Hoffman benefits from both: harness definitely makes him more powerful, the cyborg one adds diversity. Same applies to lady j. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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