Me2 My opinion:

[Voidwalker]

Comment 1: Great Job Wyrd, You have put out a very good product and it was a lot of work, by a lot of people.

Comment 2: I like Most of the new models and the rules have been cleaned up.

Comment 3: Everyone get to have their own opinion.

I had to get those three basic things out. I have seen a lot of negativity about the second edition out there. Yes, everyone gets to have their own opinion, but stop and think what all of the just plain complaining is doing to your favorite hobby. All new players see is angry people. They are normally louder than the people, that are enjoying themselves(mostly).

Let people and the companies know what you think, without that there would be little improvement, so thanks for the feedback. Now drop the volume a bit, let others be heard.

As far as change goes, their is a spectrum of people, from love change mix it up to why did you have to change that one stat, I rely on that stat for EVERYTHING. This is good and great. My take is that you can never hit everyone. There are one or two things that I was not a fan of, I have left my feed back on those. Now is the time to adapt and play on. Overall the game has been cleaned up, some of the more game ending combos have been removed and some more options that allow payer strategy to have more weight. That is what I personally enjoy.

And last a message to Wyrd. Thank you, it takes a lot of work, a crazy amount to make changes on this scale. From what I have seen, you have done a great job so far. Just do not forget( And it does not appear that you will), that these games are made for the players and not purely for make a profit. You have done well by me so far and I think a lot of people feel the same way.

Thank you all for letting me share my opinion. Now get all the models, books,cards,novels,tshirts,coins and cross over merch out so I can spen my money!!

[Duck21]

Everyone entitled to their own opinion.

I think Malifaux 2nd edition has both strengths and weaknesses.

And there was less negativity towards 2nd edition then towards 1.5

Moderators managed to get this under control, but it was unchecked for more than a month. I’m still recovering from the trauma.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Duck21

[PierceSternum]

I'd be interested in knowing where the op is seeing or hearing negativity as of today that promoted this thread.

To my eye, people that could not find anything to like in m2e have moved on.

All the posts I read more are questions about rules or shipments and such so it just seemed odd to me to see a "can't we all just get along" style post.

Was just wondering.

[Duck21]

Oh my God. There's just 3 of us left. Dracomax, PierceSternum and me. We're endangered species.:1_Exhausted_Puppet:

[Mister Shine]

Technically you'd be Critically Endangered or possibly Extinct in Wild if you consider the forums a zoo like I do

[Justin]

Technically you'd be Critically Endangered or possibly Extinct in Wild if you consider the forums a zoo like I do

It also depends on whether they can produce viable offspring together.

[Duck21]

It also depends on whether they can produce viable offspring together.

I think there are only males left.

So the forum rules reform came too late.

[FearLord]

It also depends on whether they can produce viable offspring together.

Nature finds a way...

[Hagisman]

All new players see is angry people. They are normally louder than the people, that are enjoying themselves(mostly).

Let people and the companies know what you think, without that there would be little improvement, so thanks for the feedback. Now drop the volume a bit, let others be heard.

As a new player I can agree with this. It has been hard for me in the past to play games where half the player base decides in one day that the game is ruined and leave. I don't know how my local store is handling it. There were about 10-16 people the other day to play I think so I think I'm lucky not to see this.

[Voidwalker]

Lets be hopeful, we cannot be only males left.

Most of the negativity has been in the 3 game shops that I have been to. The groups seem to drop back to Warmachines/Hordes and 40K.

The great news is after my Gencon delivery, we had a group of newbies/Old hands gathered around the tables, drooling over models and asking rules questions. It will come back, but my desire is to optimize this. There will be a delay now before others get their hands of the cards and book. So the Malifaux lending library is open!

It rises!!

Now back to sleep for me. Glad you are still here.

[Duck21]

Lets be hopeful, we cannot be only males left.

Most of the negativity has been in the 3 game shops that I have been to. The groups seem to drop back to Warmachines/Hordes and 40K.

The great news is after my Gencon delivery, we had a group of newbies/Old hands gathered around the tables, drooling over models and asking rules questions. It will come back, but my desire is to optimize this. There will be a delay now before others get their hands of the cards and book. So the Malifaux lending library is open!

It rises!!

Now back to sleep for me. Glad you are still here.

Oh I see you were talking about Your local scene, I thought you were talking about the forum.

It’s very different in LGS. No negativity here. All my friends sticking with 1.5 but that's only 3 people. Me and Doctor Loxley managed to attract another half a dozen people who all bought starters, some bought more then one and a lot of single figures. (My painted miniatures attracted lot of attention and Loxley was giving demos.) But they don’t play in a store. I still see them, they come for card tournaments. They would probably be interested M2E ( I know one of them was very exited about it, I was actually promoting it before the public beta) but Loxley is no longer a henchman and I’m exhausted from the forum. (We just two punks who run out of steam.)

[doubledragon]

I'd be interested in knowing where the op is seeing or hearing negativity as of today that promoted this thread. To my eye, people that could not find anything to like in m2e have moved on. All the posts I read more are questions about rules or shipments and such so it just seemed odd to me to see a "can't we all just get along" style post. Was just wondering.

I seem to recall you being one of the haters, PierceSternum? To quote you from one of your own threads:"Now comes my dislike.I *HATE* most of the art in the book. I happened to open it up the first time and saw some sort of garish eye-shadow lilith staring back at me. I was VERY disappointed. I flip the page and Candy looks as bad or worse to me.I am on the fence about the new sort of suckerpunch/punk/anime aesthetics that the game seems to be taking universally, but the execution of the actual art I just find bad. (With a few exceptions)"Malifaux is at a point where it can really take off and become big with the release of 2nd Edition, but it will require the help of us existing players.We need to talk the game up. Talk about the positives and what we enjoy about it. All the "hating" on the forums turns away new players.So here's to hearing about what we love about this game!

[PierceSternum]

You read selectively.

I said I like the look and heft of the book and found the format to be far better than others had made it out to be and a large improvement over the original M1E book.

Then I talked about how much I dislike a lot of the art.

The HATERS are gone.

People like me that now get branded as the new haters are simply those that have things we dislike in this version to go along with the things that we like.

If that's the new "hate", then guilty as charged.

[caen]

I'd be interested in knowing where the op is seeing or hearing negativity as of today that promoted this thread.

To my eye, people that could not find anything to like in m2e have moved on.

All the posts I read more are questions about rules or shipments and such so it just seemed odd to me to see a "can't we all just get along" style post.

Was just wondering.

Peoples that do not like M2E (or like 1,5 more) simply do not posts on WYRD forum any more - there is no point in posting negative opinions about M2E ... "Twelve o`clock and all is calm"

Edited September 3, 2013 by caen

[Hagisman]

True, you'll at worst have people who play the game, but hate some aspect of it.

[doubledragon]

You read selectively.I said I like the look and heft of the book and found the format to be far better than others had made it out to be and a large improvement over the original M1E book.Then I talked about how much I dislike a lot of the art.The HATERS are gone.People like me that now get branded as the new haters are simply those that have things we dislike in this version to go along with the things that we like.If that's the new "hate", then guilty as charged.

Definitely. Not everybody is going to like everything. I am just one of those people who does like everything about M2E.I feel that there needs to be a bit more "love" shown in the forums and a little less "hate" in general. Especially if we don't want to turn away new players or potential new players.

[edonil]

True, you'll at worst have people who play the game, but hate some aspect of it.

Which is fine, and to be expected. Not everyone will love every part of the system, and they don't have to. Whether their critiques will be dealt with immediately or not, I know I for one want the chance to see those opinions. I don't want to see the poison of the past few months, but I do want to hear from people who disagree with me, because otherwise discussions become very boring quick, if nothing else. And those things they dislike may change as the journey goes on, as more feedback is given to the company. That feedback is necessary. For a good example of what happens when a company isn't getting feedback or is ignoring it, see the current direction GW is going.

No offense, doubledragondy, but your statement of 'talk about the positives and what we enjoy about it' is something that I find unsettling. There is a place for polite dissent and debate, and disagreement. Someone saying that they don't like a particular thing (be it the art, a particular rule, the way a certain model turned out) is not being a 'hater'. That's being a customer with a different opinion, and that needs to be equally valued as those who love the game as it stands. To create a culture of 'everything must toe the line' is equally as abhorrent in my eyes as a culture of pure poison.

[mythicFOX]

I think what's important is taking a good tone and being constructive. Something like;

I preferred the art style in 1.5, where things were a little more clean and cartoon like rather than gritty and realistic.

Is much better than;

I HATE the art style in M2e, it's so rubbish it angers me.

That last one is pure emotional response which doesn't help anyone, the first one is a constructive point.

I'd also agree we seem to have a tendency to over stress the negative and forget the many things we love about this great game.

[Helm]

I seem to recall you being one of the haters, PierceSternum?

...

Malifaux is at a point where it can really take off and become big with the release of 2nd Edition, but it will require the help of us existing players.We need to talk the game up. Talk about the positives and what we enjoy about it. All the "hating" on the forums turns away new players.So here's to hearing about what we love about this game!

"Hater" isn't a word I'd use anyway, but in this case you're talking about someone who had negative things to say about the art of the game. That was the only thing I recall being critisised in the post. It seems strange to me that someone could be categorised like that just because of their taste in art, when they've made it clear that there are things that they like about the game overall.

As caen says, a lot of people with legitimate reasons to dislike parts of M2E just don't post any more, and I'm guessing it's partly because of this kind of attitude. The game isn't perfect (no game is), and we're in a unique position right now to improve a lot of the problems as Wave 2 is being finalised. If people weren't allowed to voice their problems with the game, we'd still be stuck on original Dreamer from 1.5 and Perdita's gun-sucking art for 2.0.

[Jonas Albrecht]

That last one is pure emotional response which doesn't help anyone

Same thing applies to the statements of gushing praise, really.

[doubledragon]

I'm not saying people should not voice their opinions. I think player feedback has been a large part of what has made this game what it is. What I do think is that people who say they enjoy this game, should not use words like "hate", "horrible", "sucks" etc. because it will definitely turn away other gamers who potentially want to play this game.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I'm not saying people should not voice their opinions. I think player feedback has been a large part of what has made this game what it is. What I do think is that people who say they enjoy this game, should not use words like "hate", "horrible", "sucks" etc. because it will definitely turn away other gamers who potentially want to play this game.

I agree, throwing around negative terms like "whining" and "haters" doesn't really help do anything to build the community's reputation.

[Dracomax]

I just want to point out that most of my "anti-M2E" posts have been in defense of people who didn't like M2e, rather than against M2E itself. I hate hate hate when peoples are treated the way that some of those people were simply because you disagree with them, and thus I was ecstatic to hear about the new moderation platform.

That said, I find M2E to be a mixed bag. I think it does many things better than first edition, and several things worse. I don't think the upgrades system in general is quite where it needs to be, and I'm starting to think it might have just as many balance issues as M1E, we just haven't found them yet. On the other hand, the core rules themselves are almost without exception better, in my opinion, both clearer, more intuitive, and less time consuming.

I should mention that I went into the private beta with every expectation that I would hate the game. Every thing I had heard in podcasts filled me with dread. However, I went in determined to keep an open mind and give the game a shot, with the intention of working to mitigate or change things that didn't work--and honestly? most of those things I knew I was going to hate I actually like better than the M1E version.

That being said, I understand why people wouldn't like it. Some of my gaming group outright prefers first edition, and I still like M1E, and will continue to play it. I find the individual models' abilities to be more interesting in general than their M2E counterparts, and like the added complexity therof. I will continue to ask for and hope for Wyrd to somehow continue to support the M1E community, even if by doing nothing more than making the model cards available in some kind of pdf form and providing a sub-forum. I not only think there is a market there, but I would bet that it does a lot for those who feel they have lost their trust in Wyrd through this process. I think disparaging people for "not getting with the times" does nothing but drive people away; Saying we aren't going to continue supporting this, so if you want to play the outdated version, here's what you need, have fun, and buy some of our models occasionally will tend to do the opposite.

[PierceSternum]

As another "hater", I am similar.

I prefer most of the M2E core rules over M1E.

I also agree that schemes needed an overhaul.

But...

I do not like dual-faction.

I do not like the simplification of the models and would rather that the outlier models had been specifically addressed and the lionshare of models could have stayed the same, with some cost tweaks.

I think that gaining grounds 2013 was the direction that strats should have continued on.

I was at a 1.5 tourney last month and had an absolute blast. In particular playing against a Lynch crew I just loved how it all worked together.

I will greatly miss the dynamics of that crew in that version. (Its also the only neverborn crew I ever bought and played. So much fun)

Its also a little sad to me that my first love Nicodem is going away. I get that he is better at summoning now, but I gotta say that as much as I might have complained about old Nicodem in regards to certain strats and schemes, he could be super fun to play for someone that likes "control" crews. (Always gravitated to blue-black decks in magic)

Getting weepy... <wipes tear>

[Nathan Caroland]

Oh lord, lets stop pointing fingers and labeling. Fanboi, Hater, Gamer .. whatever.

I like chocolate .. add caramel to it though, and bleh!

I for one am happy to see the forums getting back to what they were (got a ways to go though) and yes, happy to take that critique. Pierce and others here dislike the artwork - and that's fine. Hell, don't get Jonas started on the story for Perdita, he'll rip your ear off about that one.

And you know what .. perfectly fine. It's how you present yourself.

It's like politics on the news, there is usually this one person who is all calm and collected and talking ... and then they bring on the firebrand who is spitting and wild eyed and talking over everyone and not allowing a word in edgewise ... cut to commercial ... hey, we now have a panel of one and the wild eyed fella is gone. I laugh a little bit because I was watching something very similar to that here a month ago on the news, the guy was seriously unhinged.

Anyhow, erm ... good morning all.