F

[i_was_like_you]

It looks like GW's shenanigans have led to the closing of another games store.

Edited April 12, 2013 by i_was_like_you

[Boshea]

Wow, didn't expect that.

[edonil]

I'd be angry if I was surprised...that's just dumb.

[Sliver Chocobo]

How is that even legal?

[edonil]

It probably falls under the 'signing the contract makes it legal' argument, unfortunately. Ah well, yet another reason to consider my walking away from GW a good thing...

[Ausplosions]

It probably falls under the 'signing the contract makes it legal' argument, unfortunately. Ah well, yet another reason to consider my walking away from GW a good thing...

Makes me glad i did that years ago.

[pixelante]

Whenever I see the flamewars that spring up over whether XBox is better than Playstation or vice versa, I can't but help wonder if such rants aren't fueled by a little bit of envy on both sides.

"I REALLY, REALLY LIKE [iNSERT GAME/SYSTEM/MERKAN/McGUFFIN] BECAUSE IT IS SOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN [iNSERT GAME/SYSTEM/MERKAN/McGUFFIN] AND I DON'T FEEL ANY DOUBT OVER CHOOSING X OVER Y!!!!1111!!!!"

Or something to that effect and I can't help think there is a bit of this envy when it comes to the miniature hobby.

Do I think GW marketing department is from an alien dimension? Sure I do.

Am I going to stop playing GW games solely on the strength of their obtuse and unknowable, eldritch marketing strategy? No. I like the setting. I like the way the game plays and so I will continue to play the game as long as I enjoy it.

Furthermore, though my armies are complete and I do not need to buy any GW models I know I can always look to the secondhand market if I wanted to expand my present armies or purchase a new one. Especially when it is amply fueled by people rage quitting GW.

You say that you've had it with GW and its reassuring to see GW being so unfriendly to its market, makes you feel good doesn't it? Makes you feel like you made the right decision selling you two hundred piece Space Marine army on eBay at a loss....

...but I know better, I know you still crave a bit of that plasti-crack. Go ahead, its ok, the first space marine is free

[Boshea]

If we're going to make plasti-crack jokes I find they fit PP better. We refer to the starter boxes as "crack baby prices" around here for a reason.

[Pierzasty]

I usually prefer "Play like you've got a pair or go play something made of plastic" to PP players *grin*

BTW, what are crack baby prices?

[Sliver Chocobo]

Whenever I see the flamewars that spring up over whether XBox is better than Playstation or vice versa, I can't but help wonder if such rants aren't fueled by a little bit of envy on both sides.

"I REALLY, REALLY LIKE [iNSERT GAME/SYSTEM/MERKAN/McGUFFIN] BECAUSE IT IS SOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN [iNSERT GAME/SYSTEM/MERKAN/McGUFFIN] AND I DON'T FEEL ANY DOUBT OVER CHOOSING X OVER Y!!!!1111!!!!"

Or something to that effect and I can't help think there is a bit of this envy when it comes to the miniature hobby.

Do I think GW marketing department is from an alien dimension? Sure I do.

Am I going to stop playing GW games solely on the strength of their obtuse and unknowable, eldritch marketing strategy? No. I like the setting. I like the way the game plays and so I will continue to play the game as long as I enjoy it.

Furthermore, though my armies are complete and I do not need to buy any GW models I know I can always look to the secondhand market if I wanted to expand my present armies or purchase a new one. Especially when it is amply fueled by people rage quitting GW.

You say that you've had it with GW and its reassuring to see GW being so unfriendly to its market, makes you feel good doesn't it? Makes you feel like you made the right decision selling you two hundred piece Space Marine army on eBay at a loss....

...but I know better, I know you still crave a bit of that plasti-crack. Go ahead, its ok, the first space marine is free

It's not stupid it's smart and revolting

The easiest way is via GW, now the only way GW get models is via online or a LGS which mostly be the a GW store or there own website mean newer players wont find other games by other company's are avilible

[Boshea]

BTW, what are crack baby prices?

The starter boxes are drastically under-priced compared to everything else you'll need to play.

[Math Mathonwy]

Eh, GW wishes to support the brick and mortar stores, which, I believe, in the long run is the correct choice for the whole well-being of this hobby. Seriously, we need those twelve-year-olds walking into a GW store or FLGS and starting 40k who then grow up to be like us. Online sales are really killing brick and mortar stores and that's not a good thing.

Now, I'm not saying it's all roses and bubbles, GW is essentially going for a similar strategy as Apple in their attempt to dominate. But I can see the reasoning as well.

As for killing the bitz trade, well, wanting their stuff to be sold in their original packaging doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing to wish for. Again, I don't see brick and mortar stores buying battalion boxes to sell them on the cheap as bits.

I dunno, I feel that the straight up, unthinking rage reaction this has garnered is stupid. There are many sides to the story and certainly both view points can be argued, but most don't seem to stop and think. They just throw knee-jerk rage into the Internet.

[edonil]

If I thought it was about fixing the online sales problem, I'd be more behind this. I agree with you Math, the brick and mortar stores need support to be able to have this hobby thrive. However, that doesn't seem to be following the trend that I see in America, where there's only a handful of stores run by GW and lots of independent retailers, all of whom are hurt by some of these decisions. It seems to be less about fixing the online sales problem and more about making sure those sales are going directly to GW's website, where they make the most profit.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Eh, GW wishes to support the brick and mortar stores, which, I believe, in the long run is the correct choice for the whole well-being of this hobby. Seriously, we need those twelve-year-olds walking into a GW store or FLGS and starting 40k who then grow up to be like us. Online sales are really killing brick and mortar stores and that's not a good thing.

Now, I'm not saying it's all roses and bubbles, GW is essentially going for a similar strategy as Apple in their attempt to dominate. But I can see the reasoning as well.

As for killing the bitz trade, well, wanting their stuff to be sold in their original packaging doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing to wish for. Again, I don't see brick and mortar stores buying battalion boxes to sell them on the cheap as bits.

I dunno, I feel that the straight up, unthinking rage reaction this has garnered is stupid. There are many sides to the story and certainly both view points can be argued, but most don't seem to stop and think. They just throw knee-jerk rage into the Internet.

What about those that don't have assess to an LGS, there is not that many around also that limit on direct sales is going to hit any non-GW sales, which is what GW what to get rid of

[Math Mathonwy]

What about those that don't have assess to an LGS, there is not that many around also that limit on direct sales is going to hit any non-GW sales, which is what GW what to get rid of

I, unfortunately, simply don't understand what you are saying. I'm not a native speaker *worried*

[Sliver Chocobo]

I, unfortunately, simply don't understand what you are saying. I'm not a native speaker *worried*

No worry

What i was trying to say is that i'm worried about GW limiting the amount of special orders sale to brick and mortar shops that GW don't own thus the best place to get GW stuff is is from GW.

this means the newer players only get to see what GW want them to see

[dgraz]

No worry

What i was trying to say is that i'm worried about GW limiting the amount of special orders sale to brick and mortar shops that GW don't own thus the best place to get GW stuff is is from GW.

this means the newer players only get to see what GW want them to see

The direct sales thing is one of the worst problems I think. No brick and mortar can stock the thousands of products that GW has. The brick and mortar carries the most popular and newest things.......then they special order the rest. This new rule kills a lot of that special ordering.

What are they supposed to say? "Sorry, I can't get that this month. You'll have to wait a month or you could buy it online from GW." That's not supporting the brick and mortar at all.

[i_was_like_you]

WGC weighs in:

Edited March 23, 2013 by i_was_like_you

[ThePandaDirector]

For a moment I thought this was a thread to discuss the film "F" - a gawd awful British horror flick I recently had the misfortune of seeing (thanks for that Film4) =]

For me the only thing GW is guilty of is pushing away potential gamers (since it remains the doorway to the industry, and an inaccessible one at that), and its pricing policy is at the heart of this contradiction. They're not the only ones, and they do attract gamers too, but at this rate getting into 40K feels like trying to afford to go to university in England

[i_was_like_you]

For a moment I thought this was a thread to discuss the film "F" - a gawd awful British horror flick I recently had the misfortune of seeing (thanks for that Film4) =]

Sorry about that. My phone didn't want to cooperate with posting this thread. I'll be sure to steer clear of "F".

For me the only thing GW is guilty of is pushing away potential gamers (since it remains the doorway to the industry, and an inaccessible one at that), and its pricing policy is at the heart of this contradiction. They're not the only ones, and they do attract gamers too, but at this rate getting into 40K feels like trying to afford to go to university in England

It is just such a different mindset between skirmish games and these super mega army battles. I used to think Battletech was expensive, which, while somewhat true, does not compare at all to 40k or Fantasy in prices. Just gotta buy a star or a lance of mechs and maybe the rules to support them. Heck, after at least one person owned enough to spare a crew, our biggest expense was getting to a copy machine to print off a few dozen sheets for marking damage, heat, and disabled weapons.

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------

The real issue, I think, is like you said about GW being the doorway to the industry. When someone goes to a gaming store, what do they see? GW paints, models, etc. Then there are the other brands, which, while good, don't always have the huge banners that stores are encouraged / required to display.

Perhaps if Privateer Press or Vallejo or some other paint company can overtake that particular part, instead of just being a vastly smaller paint display sitting near the extensive Citadel paint rack, then stores could break the leash of needing GW just to operate, when the cost and conditions become too high.

Take our Malifaux for example: How much inventory does a store need to keep on hand? One box / blister of each of the older models and maybe a couple of each of the newer ones usually suffices, with any outs being filled generally within a week, depending on the store's sales volume for 'Faux. Keep one of each book available, along with some Fate Decks, some basing accessories, and you're good to go. How much space does that tend to take up? A whole shelf or section of pegboard.

Warmahordes has been around a little longer. For it to just keep one of each box / blister around, it takes up about 10 to 20 feet of wall space.

Now, GW, on the other hand, to just keep the bare bones box / blister around, takes up about 30 to 45 feet of wall space.

What do you do with all of that merchandise that is just sitting there, taking up space, that you 1) had to pay for up front, and 2) isn't likely to move any time soon unless you can get new players to the game?

In the case of 'Faux, you can probably convince a potential new player to pick up the Rules Manual (if you don't just suggest that they download it or have them borrow yours), a a Fate Deck, a crew, and maybe a few models they might want with that (specifically totems for old crews). They'll have what they need to play quite a few games at the 25 and 35ss level until they decide to drop another $20 next month to add to their options.

In the Price Thread (or was it back on the Traps thread?), the crack baby pricing for a starter of Warmachine or Hordes might get someone started, but they still aren't going to have quite what they need to play competitively. Depending on their budget, you might get someone into it.

But for Warhammer, 40k or Fantasy, how many car payments does it take to field an army? The more units in the army, the more that need assembled and painted. The more that need assembled and painted, the longer it takes to get them on the field to actually play with them.

Sure, it used to be that Games Workshop was practically the only game in town, with your choice being Do I play Fantasy or 40k? So, from that era forward, plenty of people have put in quite the investment into the game. Getting them to try something new might be difficult. But now, there are just so many more options, at the skirmish level, that are a lot friendly on the wallet, both for the players and for the store owners.

[ThePandaDirector]

It just seems odd for a company to push in opposite directions - you need lots and lots and lots of minis to have fun, but we'll make it more and more expensive to buy less and less (£15 for 20 goes to £18 for 20 goes to £18 for 10). Also, since GW is targetting younger gamers, they are going to increasingly alienate parents who control their children's wallets. While other companies who produce games at the same game size are no where near GW's ability to deliver customizable minis and variety of sculpts, the mindset for large games usually doesn't spare much thought about the minis (since you'll be shovelling them off the table anyway). If GW brings back the specialist games then they will segment their presence in the industry for many years to come, but either way I certainly hope to see an increased levelling of the playing field and the surface of the industry's doorway become far greater and more representative of the true industry.

I can never find the energy to rage over GW, but what does get to me is when my local gamers maintain their opinions of GW and the industry without having experienced anything beyond GW. Variety and new experiences are what keeps this hobby so rewarding, and it's sad that some will rage quit GW and miss out on all the wonderful alternatives.

[xKoBiEx]

I plan to keep an eye on GW's systems but I am temporarily not dealing with them. That said, I haven't bought a GW mini in almost 3 years. Their policies have been very poor for a long time...this is just one more bad move.

[ThePandaDirector]

I'm still fully up to date on their latest releases, though I can't be bothered with the rules. If I go back it'll be for the Hobbit because I loved their LotR skirmish game. But to get any games of that would mean going into a GW, and it's very rare you find one you can actually be comfortable in (and not sit in fear of paranoid staff, which is rather ironic really). Kudos to GW for trying to move more people towards their stores, but the atmosphere in their stores has gotten a lot worse over the years. I miss my local GW =[

[Mako]

But their policy in England is supposedly to get people that aren't new to the game out of their stores and into local gaming clubs. So surely, they now want you to not buy anywhere but from them, and they don't want you to go in their stores....

[ThePandaDirector]

@Mako: Yeah, they do certainly seem to have a weird attitude to long time gamers. The staff tend to ignore you after a few discussians about their vast collection of (GW) minis. They also like to promote big games where everyone throws as many models on the table as possible, even though those games never actually go anywhere. But I just don't like how I can't have a simple, honest conversation with their staff. I felt a bit like this at a locla tradeshow, but I could certainly empathise with the smaller manufacturers who had yet to break into profit, but they were more than happy to discuss other products too. In GW you can barely talk about what you watched on TV without being asked to move your discussian to something more "relevant".