What are the viks afraid of?

[mcmourning san]

As a new player to the viks I was hoping some of the more experienced community could tell me what the viks might not want to see on the other side of the table and how they deal with those threats?

[Ryu]

Moar Viks.

[Boshea]

Crews with a strong ranged presence, and crews that can get the jump on them. The Viks can put out some devastating damage with a decent hand, a late turn charge, and winning the following initiative the flip. However they are likely the most fragile masters in the game so anything that can hit them first, or engage them outside of melee can make your life hard. The more resources you need to throw at keeping them alive, are resources that are not going into a whirlwind bomb. Be smart with your advance and you should avoid walking into a firing line or getting jumped in melee.

[micahwc]

Anything which can survive a turn of whirlwind and do more than 7 wounds back. Lilith and the Viks are always a fun match.

[Gorbad]

Also, anything they can't for one reason or another take out in mêlée. So models that have abilities preventing you from targeting them or who can pass of hits or soul stone users with slow to die can be a real problem. They don't want to have anything standing around to hit them back. Also, I think you need to be decisive with them. Half committing is worse than hiding or going all in.

[Jewomie]

Well, i will admit i have never played the viks, but as a long time opponent i can tell you there are two things Vik players are often frustrated by, and they are quite linked.

You'll be going into every game with a zero cashe of soul stones, so every stone you want to keep in the game has to come right out of your hiring pool, and most of your best pieces are a bit expensive. This hurts you on two different levels.

1. you will often be outnumbered. and the viks don't like that. i see her set up a good attack all the time and wait hoping to go last so there is no time for retaliation till the next turn. When playing against crews made up of many low cost models, like reserrectionists, they will use their low end fodder first waiting for you to use viktoria then come down hard with the big gun once she's attacked. It's not super hard to counter this, but it's something you'll always have to face.

2. Masters with a high cashe will always have more stones than you. Sadly it's just the way it works. It doesn't mean you'll lose. in fact it's often the opposite. But you'll have to be aware that they have more chances than you to spend those stones. or they can at least afford to throw one away on an initiative flip.

Other than that, i'm really not sure what they would be afraid of. My fiance is a long time Viks player and these are the most common issues she faces.

Hope this helped!

Edit: After reading some of the people who managed to post faster than i, i would second the bit about ranged crews. But it's not a hunge issue if you can keep them in cover until the right moment. Perdita and Lilith will both cause problems reguardless of cover though. lol.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Jewomie

[Drool_bucket]

Ranged attacks scare the Viks. They eat up some of your stones or force you to take indirect routes that limit your amount of damage you can cause.

While it sounds crazy, I hate large bunches of enemy models. Whirlwind is awesome but you do eventually run out of Masks... and the Viks just can't sit and take return attacks.

Anything faster than them that's killy, like a diving charge Misaki or LCB bombing in.

Most of these things and what's already been written I deal with in one of two ways, most often.

First, Sisters and Spirit and a little patience goes a long way. Let Von Schill or your other minions get stuck in first and then go in with the Viks. Being able to use two Viks to approach the enemy and make the best choice is gravy.

Two, "Another One?" is often my answer, especially when I get a 13 of Rams in my hand. At that point I know I am bringing a Vik back so a drag a Ronin over to the Viks that is going to survive and then toss (usually Sword) Vik into an unsurvivable mess. She'll do some good damage and then the opponent will waste resources killing her off. I often read/hear that other Viks players never bother with this spell but I find it game breaking in many cases. It's one of the reasons I never leave home with a Ronin and often use the Ronin to complete objectives, not rush the enemy and get killed.

[i_was_like_you]

I agree with Drool_bucket, even more so with Vanessa counting an a Ronin. Leave Ronin / Vanessa out of the fray, grabbing objectives, until you happen to lose a Vik.

Cover and opportunity are your friends against ranged threats. Models like VonSchill who can pull aggro for a bit are great. When taking VonSchill, though, make sure you load up on stones as you'll have three models that are vying for them.

Had a buddy get lucky and pull off Whirlwind 8 times in a row, only two of them were cheated from his hand, after the first six came off the flips. Paired certainly helps with this. Sword Vik bounced back and forth between two targets until they were gone. Gun Vik went next, pulled her sister to safety while entering shooting range, plinking off another model. Fortune favors the bold. That, or it was beginner's luck on his part.

[Ausplosions]

Birds.

[PokiePrawn]

Perdita, Chompy both do lots of damage at range, and can easily kill off a Vic or a couple members of your (small) crew. They are then often unable to be attacked back. They also have mobility.

Outactivation crews can hurt the Vics.

Terrifying can be hard to overcome with some of the Vic's crew.

Ranged crews can be tough to catch, but I have never actually lost to a mostly ranged crew, so I guess that one depends.

[micahwc]

Birds.

Klowns

[Kadeton]

I find the things that scare me the most with the Viks are the anti-melee blob crews, like a Hoffball or a Hamelin swarm. The only way to deal with them is to go in with overwhelming force and hope you kill them before they can kill you.

Also, Lady Justice. If she's got the cards and the lucky flips, the Viks will bounce off her and die.

[Jonas Albrecht]

C. Hoffman + a Peacekeeper.

[hippodruid]

Birds.

As the local Viks player here is terrified of Mechanical Doves, I have to second this.

[Odin1981]

Austringer birds are good as well for the plinking damage they do. Not a real threat to kill unless rj comes up on a - damage flip. But they can have a good effect for inevitability in making the viks spring into action earlier than they want to.

I normally run hamelin over hulk hogan cause I have a love affair with the obey spell in this game. But really the only thing that worries me is aoe damage on death models as well as high armor models (I don't run/own taelor).

[Gorbad]

As the local Viks player here is terrified of Mechanical Doves, I have to second this.

Thirded. Doves are really good at grinding down the Viks, long range, can attack CA(and at -2 at that) and utterly disposable. But mostly it boils down to anything that can actually get to attack them in a meaningful way. Whatever that be through speed, range, not dying etc. The Viks are glass cannons. Although its worth keeping in mind that losing one of them might not be the end of the world. Even if you don't replace her if you do enough damage, or delay/distract your opponent, it might well be worth it. Remember most games are not actually won by killing stuff even if it does help!

[Boshea]

Thirded. Doves are really good at grinding down the Viks, long range, can attack CA(and at -2 at that) and utterly disposable. But mostly it boils down to anything that can actually get to attack them in a meaningful way. Whatever that be through speed, range, not dying etc. The Viks are glass cannons. Although its worth keeping in mind that losing one of them might not be the end of the world. Even if you don't replace her if you do enough damage, or delay/distract your opponent, it might well be worth it. Remember most games are not actually won by killing stuff even if it does help!

Yeah I played one game where I lost stabby Vik very early and just had gun Vik rip through the opposing crew while other models worked on schemes.

[Mr. Goggles]

I was going to reply explaining my success with Dove's against the Viks, but I see now that the explanation is not necessary.

In fact, if they take Von Schill, the Dove trick is even more effective since he will be resisiting with a mighty CA of 1.

[The Godlyness]

And you can make Vonshill a mannequin.

[EnternalVoid]

Really it has been summed up already by others but the Viks are afraid of anything that can trouble them. I know it sounds funny saying it in that sentence but it is the simple truth. The Viks like to be in control, most masters are that way.

There are three main ways to trouble the Viks. One is card destruction. If you can drain their hand you will have a Vik player biting their nails. Heck you will have almost any player doing that but the Viks sit at a unique little spot where they are more vulnerable then some others. They have no built in defensive measures, good defense but not good enough to be safe with the spread of cards, and a wound total more like a minion then a master. If you somehow burn most if not all of a Vik player's hand early in a turn they will be scrambling unless they are already in a good place.

This of course is harder said than done for some lists. Many Vik players try to build their hand the first 2 turns so they have a nice strong one for when it comes killing time. But if you can make those cards go away or at the very least be used defensively than it will help you alot against them.

The 2nd is soulstones. Viks love their soulstones. It can turn a lower Mask that might not hit into a solid hit. It can also make those times where you have to keep hitting to kill that model that is important. As the Use Soulstone ability is only a few models outside Masters or Henchmen have it is not to hard for someone like a Vik to hit. A Solid Cb, combined with a cheated card and Soulstone is often more than minions can handle. Those Soulstones are also their strongest line of defense, but are not limitless. If you can make the Viks burn through soulstones at an 'accelerated' rate then you will put them in a tough place.

Often when two masters go at it, it becomes an exchange of Soulstones, each side spending them on attack and defense, and then again on possible damage reduction. This is often not healthy though as the Viks are a dangerous thing to send your master against. If they are luckier with the Soulstone flips or have the slightly stronger hand you might lose out and find yourself suffering the retaliation of both Viks against your Master. It is better to have your minions attack the Viks, often those with solid stats of their own. Having a Taelor or a similar put into their face bothers the Viks, more so if their hand was already drained a little. Every soulstone they use to stop the attack is one not spend on fighting your master or butchering your crew. And once they are out of stones it suddenly becomes very possible for even little minions to pull down a Vik.

Concentration is another variation of this. If you can't get quality then Quantity is an option. Having a dozen attacks put against a Vik in one turn will either eat their hand, Soulstones, just put them in a bad place, or down down for the count.

The last is Initiative altering abilities. Crews that have the ability to inflict a negative flip or positive flips on initiative make the Viks nervous. Their ideal is to fly in at the end of a turn, hack up stuff, then win initiative next turn and do it again before anyone can hit them. If things are against them for winning initiative their will be more hesitation and pausing. This is helpful for messing with plans and possible giving you time to concentrate on portions of their force or them. Also it might draw the occational soulstone as they might feel they have to gamble on the reflip getting a better result *generally they will not do this unless you flipped a fairly low card yourself*.

[Drool_bucket]

As a long time Viks player I shudder at EternalVoid's advice against the girls... damn you sir, you're ruining it for us!

Edited March 3, 2013 by Drool_bucket

[poulpox]

Yes I must admit this thread is most helpful for non-Viks players like me, thanks!

[EnternalVoid]

As a long time Viks player I shudder at EternalVoid's advice against the girls... damn you sir, you're ruining it for us!

When we started the Viks were the most popular Master it seemed, Of our starting group there was like 3 people that had them *where most of us were playing different faction that tells you what sort of concentration it was*. For a while two made the pair their only masters and one of our stronger players later adopted them *and he hardly ever plays them with out Von Shill*. I might have played the Viks myself back when I first started, but the number of people in our group that picked them up turned me away from them.

I have a deep respect for the destruction they cause so feel no remorse removing them from the table if I see the chance.