Can I start with Lucius?

[Sixgunsexpistol]

So right now I own a Lucius box set. I haven't played since the initial release for the game. Is this an ok starter or to complicated and should I stick with one of the originals?

[Omenbringer]

It isn't a bad starter though you will want to augment the crew a bit to bring it up to 30-35 Soulstones.

A standard recomendations is the Drill Sergeant Totem and the Guild Austringers though the Guild Riflemen can be pretty potent as well. I also like adding in a few more Guild Guardsman and or Guild Hounds.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Omenbringer

[dgraz]

If you start with Lucius, he'll finish it.

Sorry - not constructive. I have hardly any experience with him - couldn't resist the quip.

[PokiePrawn]

Yes he is. His box is also good (insert Lawyer argument here). You do likely need at least one Austringer and a couple other Warden/hounds/guard/riflepeople to make him tournie competitive. But, for casual games you can win with Ryle, a Guild Guard and the Guard Captain. Play in a 20SS game and you should be fine.

Lucius augments and improved his minions, so the more options he has the better he can perform. I love him.

[Agreen53]

The lawyer is a beast (pun intended) to use well. Big disadvantages are his movement and card dependency. Big advantages are buffing friendly models with hard to wound and paralyzing or scaring enemy models and cover from most targetted attacks (casting and melee I think).

[Mr.Soulstone]

Have played some proxy games with him and a few games against him, generally his themes arent too hard to get to grips with so its fine as a starter! The trick is just practicing his techniques like with any master. I would agree with all of the above model selections (basically if it has guard, then take it!).

Cam.

[Mr. Goggles]

One thing I've learned about this game is there really is no master that you can't start with. I started with Colette, and everything I read said that was a terrible idea. But in Malifaux, every model is so unique anyways, you're going to have a learning curve to get around regardless, so I say start with whoever you want and you will do fine. Once you play a couple of games you should figure out what they can and cannot do, and that's really what you need to know to "learn" a crew.

[Sixgunsexpistol]

You guys have been an awesome help.

[Aramasu]

Lucius is a perfectly fine master to learn the rules of the game with - he will present your opponent with some tough decisions, as it is very hard to attack him directly, and will give a lot to learn (but not overwhelmingly so!) in terms of learning how to position your models and get the most use from tight-knit teamwork and a healthy dose of Issue Command. Give his box set a couple tries, but the Lawyer tends to be more useful in a Marcus crew than a Lucius one. If you like him and want to pick up more models, then you absolutely cannot go wrong with an Austringer.

[i_was_like_you]

Fortune favors the bold.

Try out some tricks when you get the chance, and hopefully they work out. If not, be sure you have the cards to back it up.

[GKP]

So I'm currently deciding between and Lucius Crew and a Ramos Crew. I've read the wiki page on each, and posted a bit in the Arcanist forum, so I thought I'd come here next. What do you think? Lucius is a henchman, so that handicaps me a bit, so what should I do to overcome that?

Thoughts?

[Omenbringer]

Lucius is a henchman, so that handicaps me a bit, so what should I do to overcome that?

Thoughts?

When Lucius is acting as the Master he isn't really that handicaped. As long as he has the Drill Sergeant and 1-2 Guild Austringers the rest is just gravy.

[Ulfarr]

I think Lucius is one of the best Guild Masters myself. I may be biased .

Consider picking up a couple of hounds as they are a fairly cheap, high speed model that can be good for grabbing objectives or chomping a weak minion.

I'd strongly reccommend picking up the Drill Sgt. and then either two Austringers or three Riflemen - *crazy* shooting potential (if you are lucky with casting "Issue Command" you can conceivably pull off seven austringer shots a turn.)

Add in what you get in the box and you have a very versatile jack of all trades crew with some cool tricks. You may also want to consider a Warden or maybe even the Guild Guard Captain when you expand into larger games as they have some cool tricks and a little bit of melee punch (the main weakness of a L - Dawg crew)

[MisterSparkles]

Lucius would be my choice, but like Ulfarr I'm biased. I also haven't had too much experience with Ramos. With that out of the way, let’s talk about Lucius!

First off, he’s a blast to play! I own quite a few different masters and he generally has the most fun/interesting games for both you and the opponent. He has plenty of tricks to keep himself and the crew going. He is capable in most strats as he has movement tricks and can support a guild gun line when things need to die. Oh and he can do a free reflip if you really don’t like the strat you flipped. As for being only a “henchmen”, I’ve never felt totally unable to win with him, even after most of the crew gets taken out Lucius can make it happen.

He is limited to choosing only guardsmen, but they have plenty going on for them. For instance the basic Guardsman I feel is generally overlooked in how capable they can be. CB 6 close combat with possibility of crits can threaten a lot of things. Their CB 4 ranged might seem a little weak, but once you add the drill sarge (you should ALWAYS add him) that becomes a positive flip on both attack and damage (damage being built in). Then you add Lucius to the mix and they can get +2 cb on up to 3 more attacks! All from a model that will more than likely not be a priority for your opponent.

You can also include the Austringer, who we all know and love. CB 7 with a positive flip (Drill Sarge again) that threatens the board. Again, you can add Lucius in for +CB and attacks. Fun for you, but not so much for the guy with a bird in his face.

I also give love to the Guard Captain. He brings survivability to the mix with hard to wound and armor. I generally leave him behind the troops next to and linked to the Drill Sarge. When the opponent gets into melee with the gun line you can companion him with Lucius. Lucius goes first and reinforces the captain next to the baddie and proceeds to tell the captain to beat face. Captain goes next and continues the beat down. So this results in up to five CB 5 (meh) attacks at a positive flip (Link from Drill sarge gives the Cap’n positive flips on melee attacks) with built in Crit. You can then leave the Sarge behind to continue to give those range boosts to the rear. Link doesn’t end until end of closing so the captain will only get the five boosted hits, but it leaves the drill sarge behind out of harms way to keep up the good fight. Oh and if whatever is engaging you isn’t dead the captain can have another guardsmen pick up the slack to finish it off (0 action).

The dogs are also an interesting choice. They add in the possibility of more companion and speed. Riflemen add more blam blam and can mess up the opponent’s charges. Wardens… are quick? Haven’t used them and don’t see the point. The lawyer is something I don’t generally use but adds some more support. I don’t really like Ryle with the crew as he has, as I see it, limited synergy with Lucius who loves to synergize.

The crew does have limitations, in any war of attrition you won’t fair too well. I really hope the next book gives them something like a Guild field medic and have it be similar to the Freikorps Librarian.

Lucius will also give you a great starting point in the Guild. Add Lady J and the Captain reinforce trick becomes even more awesome. Lady J, Judge, Captain, Drill Sarge, and Student of Conflict. Have lady j give them melee expect, SoC adds fast, and Drill Sarge adds positive flip. Lucius slings them forward straight into combat one at time. Even though your opponent will have a chance to respond, Judge and Cap’n will probably live through the one activation and proceed to put at least four positive flip hits on some unlucky soul.

Finally for the intangibles. Lucius looks awesome and so is his fluff. I also love having a crew of the basic Joe six-pack making things happen in a world of giant monsters and machines. Hope I didn’t ramble too much here and I know you’ll choose the “Good” guys.

[Jewomie]

I've had Lucius for a long time now, and somehow your post made me appreciate him all over again. haha

Great write up!

[Ulfarr]

Good review sparkles! One thing though - Wardens. They are super nippy (15" move a turn if you drop a card), 6 wounds and armour 1 is reasonable resilience, and paralyse trigger on the ranged attack! They aren't the last line in guardsmen models but they add a nice bit of speed to an otherwise slow crew and have a nifty trigger.

[Hardlec]

When starting with Lucius pick up the third guild guard and both Austringèr models. They will be useful right away.

If you like the hounds get 2 packages and put 4 hounds out. I have used as many as 6. They can swarm a big creature and have lots of mobility. Six dogs have up to 12 attacks. Lucius can sacrifice a hound to gain an additional activation. As long as you have 2 dogs they are significant. A bigger pack works better.

[GKP]

So what does 35ss Lucius look like? What plays well? I see Austrigers a lot, but what else?

[i_was_like_you]

When starting with Lucius pick up the third guild guard and both Austringèr models. They will be useful right away.

If you like the hounds get 2 packages and put 4 hounds out. I have used as many as 6. They can swarm a big creature and have lots of mobility. Six dogs have up to 12 attacks. Lucius can sacrifice a hound to gain an additional activation. As long as you have 2 dogs they are significant. A bigger pack works better.

If you do decide to pick up the hounds, they'll pay off even more should you ever decide to pick up McCabe. He's able to run them, as well as the rest of Lucius' Guardsmen, regardless of whether you run him as Guild or 10T (except Lucius himself if you go 10T). McCabe's totem, Luna, works well with the other hounds and as long as she's out there, they all get to ignore the consequences of his netgun.

[Omenbringer]

So what does 35ss Lucius look like? What plays well? I see Austrigers a lot, but what else?

It will typically look something like this:

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Lucius

--

4 Pool

Drill Sergeant [3ss]

• Guild Austringer
  [5ss]
  
  
• Guild Austringer
  [5ss]
  
  
• Guild Guard
  [4ss]
  
  
• Guild Guard
  [4ss]
  
  
• Guild Guard
  [4ss]
  
  
• Guild Hound
  [3ss]
  
  
• Guild Hound
  [3ss]
  
  
• Guild Hound
  [3ss]
  
  
• Guild Hound
  [3ss]
  
  

You can also swap in the Guild Riflemen though they are best in threes so will necessitate removing somethings. The core though is really the Guild Austringers, Drill Sergeant and Lucius, the rest is pretty much just gravy. I prefer the Guild Guard (successfully cast Cordon can make it difficult for your Ranged Models to be engaged).

[GKP]

What is there that can replace hounds? I hate the model alot. Would something like this work?

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Lucius -- 2 Pool

Drill Sergeant [3ss]

Guild Austringer [5ss]

Guild Austringer [5ss]

Guild Guard [4ss]

Guild Guard [4ss]

Guild Guard [4ss]

Guild Rifleman [4ss]

Guild Rifleman [4ss]

Guild Rifleman [4ss]

Edited March 28, 2013 by GKP

[Adran]

In all honesty, whilst I own a couple of hounds, they don't get onto the table much.

I have a decent result with other models.

I find Reenforcements can be great for objectives. The Warden can be pretty fast, and is in effect 2 hounds cost wise, and generally more durable.

I'm not going to give a 35ss list, as it depends what you are trying to achieve, and whilst Lucius has the tools for most jobs, he needs to select the right tools on a case by case basis

[MisterSparkles]

GKP I wouldn't worry about not having any hounds, they generally don't do too much and I usually don't expect them to do anything. However I have always been surprised by how efficient they really are. My last lucius game had a hound be the clear MVP. But like Adran, I usually don't include them.

I like your list and it will be great Gunline, just be careful of lists that can move quickly or with a Fog. But if a melee crew gets in your range you'll be able to clean house.

I'd still suggest a Cap'n for the ability to give your list Alpha ability, but his points are sometimes a waste and I like your list without him. If you replaced 2 Guardsmen with the cap'n for an alpha, your activation order could be Companion Lucius, Cap'n, Drill. Start with drill put up bubble, > cap'n to have a Austringer go. He delivers orders to the next Austringer, who delivers to a riflemen that companions with the other riflemen. Really all this will do for you is to have th drill sarge go, but that positive flip might be worth it.

I'd say try a few games with your list and then figure out what you are missing from there. Your list has a lot potential and can perform in a vaiety of situations.

[Omenbringer]

What is there that can replace hounds? I hate the model alot. Would something like this work?

Guild Crew - 35 - Scrap

Lucius -- 2 Pool

Drill Sergeant [3ss]

Guild Austringer [5ss]

Guild Austringer [5ss]

Guild Guard [4ss]

Guild Guard [4ss]

Guild Guard [4ss]

Guild Rifleman [4ss]

Guild Rifleman [4ss]

Guild Rifleman [4ss]

That is actually the list I prefer. The Hounds are great and really fast objective grabbers(when employed in teams) but I really like the additional firepower the Riflemen bring (especially considering the support they like is already there).

I like your list and it will be great Gunline, just be careful of lists that can move quickly or with a Fog.

This is where the Guild Austringers really shine. Between Lucius and a pair you can generate up to 7 Ranged Strikes that Ignore LOS at 12" or 3 Ranged strikes at 12" (that ignore LOS) followed by 2 more at range 18 that also ignore LOS).

Add in the Riflemen's 0 action Stand and Fire and a Cordon screen (tied into some blocking terrain) from the Guild Guard and the fast moving crews will have trouble getting to them (without Flight or Float). Additionally, the Guild Guards auto-trigger (except on Black Joker for damage) Halt can assist with taking the bite out of those fast melee oriented crews by denying the Charge.

I'd still suggest a Cap'n for the ability to give your list Alpha ability, but his points are sometimes a waste and I like your list without him.

I have never been a fan of the Alpha Activation. It leaves the crew "frozen" in place with out the ability to react (except for the Guild Riflemen if they used their Stand and Fire ability). I much prefer to try to out-activate my opponent (and a crew of 10 has a decent cahnce against a lot of crews) but to each his own.

I really like the Captain but I do wish he would have done a little more for the common Guardsman (perhaps like assisting them with establishing those Cordon's by throwing in a :rams to the casting flip).

[MisterSparkles]

Add in the Riflemen's 0 action Stand and Fire and a Cordon screen (tied into some blocking terrain) from the Guild Guard and the fast moving crews will have trouble getting to them (without Flight or Float). Additionally, the Guild Guards auto-trigger (except on Black Joker for damage) Halt can assist with taking the bite out of those fast melee oriented crews by denying the Charge.

I think I'll have to start playing with cordon a little more! I usually overlook it or think that using a shooting action would be worth more. But in hindsight, I can see that cordon could have been put to use quite well!

I also understand about the alpha. It's been about a 50% success rate for me. Sometimes I will be able to knock my opponent down enough to make me having nothing to worry about from any counter strike. However, there have been times were the guardsmen didn't do anything and left me wide open, had I had anybody left it might have changed things. Maybe it's the gambler in me wanting to have that go big or go home turn.