Gencon Releases: A General Quandary

[Twisted Metal]

Hey guys. Lately I have been thinking a lot about Gencon, the plethora of models that will be released and how im going to approach it this year. Lets face it with a whole new faction being unveiled there are a lot of things to be taken into consideration. As a result I wanted to share with you a few dilemmas that I have with how Gencon is run. Keep in mind that this is not meant to be a hostile post it’s just something that I think isn’t thought about when the Gencon shopping spree begins.

First off I wanted to address something that was revealed on the Gamers Lounge during the Eric J interview. In that interview Eric stated that approximately 70% of the models will be PRE-released for Gencon and then pulled off the market for a structured release schedule. This in my opinion is a risky maneuver which directly hurts one of Wyrds best product promoters, the Local Gaming Store. By releasing such a large number of models and at the same time making them unavailable to the Local Stores, Wyrd is drastically reducing the number of sales which the gaming store can make in the future. If the store can’t sell the product then there isn’t any real incentive for them to stock the product. For instance, when Gencon rolls around this year all of the hard core players jump on the online site and order everything that appeals to them in one shot. (Face it, we are all gamers which means we are impulse buyers and impatient) When that player receives their shipment from Wyrd they will have all of the new toys months ahead of the actual release and will have no need to purchase anything new from their local store. With 70% of the models in the book being released that will leave only 30% of the new product that the local store can fully capitalize on. If you think im exaggerating I can assure you that I am not. During last years Gencon all of my local players ordered the new book and all of the Avatars for their respective masters. When my local store got their shipment of “Newly Released” product it sat on the shelves unsold collecting dust. My local store had 7 copies of Twisting Fates and 2 to 3 copies of each of the avatars which sat untouched literally for months. The books were later sold to another store at distributor cost. As a result my local store owner has stated that he will only stock one of the new books and one of each of the new models from his years Gencon Releases. This of course leads into other problems such as models being unavailable to new players and such. I Guess what im really trying to say is that Wyrd should take the local stores into consideration when declaring a fire sale such as Gencon. They are after all the front line of Wyrds business.

Another issue that could arise from a massive prerelease such as this is the negative impact that it may have on new players that start up after Gencon. Let me lay out a scenario here to make my point. Two hard core local players are in the middle of a game shortly after Gencon and one of the players is using the brand new faction called Ten Thunders. A prospective player walks up to the table and is head over heels for the game mechanics, aesthetics, and more importantly the kick ass Ten Thunder models. He starts asking question and wants to learn about the game. You give him a demo and he’s sold. He states that he wants to play and decides his faction is going to be the Ten Thunders. Damn, now you have to break the news to him that 70% of the models that you are currently using won’t actually be released for several months and that he cant actually play the crew that he just fell in love with. The prospective player is clearly disappointed and decides to hold off because the other factions don’t interest him quite as much. Do you think that that player is going to return in four months time when the models are again available? Probably not. Again, if you think im exaggerating im not. Last year this very scenario played out in my local store only it was Avatar Zoraida that hooked the prospective player. He walked out when we told him it wasn’t going to be available for months and we haven’t seen him since.

Ok on to a slightly different Gencon dilemma. With all of the past Gencon’s there were five factions and you had a general idea of how each faction worked and could get a general idea of what models worked in some capacity with what master. For instance when Colette was released you could at least logically assume that the other show girls worked with her. If a resser model was released you could assume with a level of certainty that it would work with the existing resser masters, Avatar Lady J would work with Master Lady J ect ect… This year a whole new faction is being released and based on the previews these Ten Thunder Models all seem to be a hodgepodge of the existing factions that seen to stand alone but have the potential to be used with the existing factions. The problem is that we don’t know how the Faction works, how models are hired or what models work with the existing masters. For example. Eric just released some new preview pics of some totems. How do we know what master those totems can attach to? The fire fox could work of Sonnia, Kaeris, or perhaps a master that we have not yet seen. Now I know its still very early and the previews are just starting to come out but it would be nice to eventually get a list explaining what works with what. It doesn’t have to be detailed, just something to give us some insight into what we are buying. How about something like…

1)Fire Fox: Dedicated Totem for Sonnia

2) Creepy Skeleton necromancer: Ten Thunders minion also available to all resser masters

Anyway I know this is kind of a long post but it was just something that I really wanted to get out there. I look forward to the incoming debate.

[edonil]

Honestly, I'm not about to debate you, I think you've definitely got some good concerns... Granted, my LGS could be a little more accommodating to miniatures gamers, and I don't personally care myself, but it isn't that way everywhere (nor should it be!).

Edited July 16, 2012 by edonil

[GrAYFoX]

Good topic. Not sure if you caught this, but Point 1 was raised in another thread and answered by Nathan and other Wyrd staff in the subsequent pages:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?31465-Wyrd-Miniatures-at-Gen-Con-2012/page5

Point 2 is certainly not ideal, but perhaps something could be done to incentivize pre-orders if the minis aren't available?

Agree with point 3. For me personally, the reality is I won't buy minis unless it's a Nytmare or an alt prior to reading the book. Ideally, I would have liked Storm of Shadows to be released 1 month prior to Gencon. I have no doubt that copious amounts of impulse purchases will take place though

[Iamwyrd]

As for the two new totems, we just got the artwork for them, like every year im sure we will get a detailed list of what's gonna be released and it will say what they are for. So no worries there.

As for the lgs dilemma, it may just be a location issue, I know my lgs stocked what came later and it sold when they got it. This pr-release is just a way so us hardcore impatient (*looks in mirror and smiles*) fans to get ahold of models months before they are released. Yes I can see it hurting lgs but like it said before it could be a location thing.

[Twisted Metal]

Good topic. Not sure if you caught this, but Point 1 was raised in another thread and answered by Nathan and other Wyrd staff in the subsequent pages:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread...Con-2012/page5

Nope some how I missed that or stopped paying attention to that thread before it got good. Its intresting though because MrCrazyCarl is one of the big local players in my area and a good friend of mine. I guess we are both passionate about supporting our LGS.

[Illustrange]

I hope this doesnt sound harsh (I have a tendency to say things harder than intended).. but Ive got the perfect solution for you that solves all the complaints.

dont buy the gencon presales and wait untill they come in regular sale again !?

that way you 1.) support your LGS, 2.)dont freak out new players and 3.)have read the book so know exactly what you will be getting.

its that simple.

I really dont get this wyrd-change-this attitudes while the solution and thus to a certain degree the problem lies in people's own hands ?

edit:

pretty much what nathan says I see now

[Twisted Metal]

I hope this doesnt sound harsh (I have a tendency to say things harder than intended).. but Ive got the perfect solution for you that solves all the complaints.

dont buy the gencon presales and wait untill they come in regular sale again !?

Nope its not Harsh at all. Im actually surprised that your the first one to say it as I was expecting this response from the start. This year I plan on buying the book and the limited edition nightmare models only. Once I have given the book a look over I'll pick up the rest at my LGS when they are released. Im not trying to start a giant 'OMG DONT BUY AT GENCON" movement here. Im just saying that as we approach Gencon dont forget your LGS.

[nilus]

Gencon pre-sales are just something that FLGS have to deal with. Every company does them and although it irrates my game store there is not much they can do.

The fact is that only a fraction of players go to Gencon(or order online during the con) so it doesn't effect the bottom line nearly as much as it seems. My game store still sold out every Malifaux new release, even those that showed up at Gencon first.

Its also worth noting that its very expensive for a company to go to Gencon so preselling at the booth is one way to recoup loss.

At the end of the day the best thing you can do is what others said, try to reserve some of your purchases to your FLGS and not buy everything at Gencon. I personally work on a spread the love mentality. I buy at Gencon, I but at my FLGS(several of them now) and I buy directly from Wyrd upon occasion(usually for exclusives or to spend my henchman stones)

[Gruesome]

I stated a lot of concerns in the original thread on this too, so I understand where you are coming from.

I do believe that our pre-sales opportunity should perhaps, in some way, allow us to specify our "home store" that keeps us active in the game so that they could, in some way, get some sort of partial credit for our online purchases. I know GW does this when you order onsite at the store.

However, I also think its great to be able to buy the models before they logistically could be at the stores months in advance.

The example you gave of a new player coming in and seeing the Ten Thunders models and falling heads over heels for them is a reasonable concern I suppose.

But, I think there is the opposite scenario of "veteran players" such as ourselves having had the opportunity to play the same models in advance and really being able to talk about them in an informed way the day they DO finally hit the shelves at the LGS.

The way I try to think of it now, especially as a new henchman is that rather than hurting sales at my LGS by my own purchase being in advance from the site or Gencon itself. I am instead making myself a better salesman for the day that my LGS does get them in stock for bringing NEW players to the game.

I also believe that if LGS's are that concerned about it themselves, they could buy demo-models for in-store use only and hook new players with them so the day they come out, they have a bunch of pre-orders on file. I am suggesting this to my LGS.

(But seriously, a store identifier on web purchases would be cool too. )

Edited July 11, 2012 by Gruesome

[pigi314159]

Having to used to work at my FLGS (granted we did next to nothing in minis), I see a way around this that makes sense for henchmen specifically.

Go to the con, buy the new stuff, but don't break it out for demo purposes until the month before its scheduled release. This way if you run into point 2, you build the hype engine. Granted you cannot stop players from bringing the con stuff home and playing it early, but it's very easy to tell the new player: "That was a Gen Con pre-release and those models will be out later. When it gets closer to their release I will be happy to show you what they do, but for now I recommend you stick to playing with/against Masters X, Y, Z." It might not be the shiny thing to do, but it's the right thing to do. (Altho this assumes that a Ten Thunders box set will not be available come September and I highly doubt that as IIRC, all book 2 box sets were out by november at the latest.)

As for your FLGS, be polite to them. I'm sure minis represent a small fraction of overall sales, and if you intend on buying something at the con when they would normally order it for you TELL THEM YOU HAVE IT ALREADY. It's a sign of respect towards the store. Yes they lost a sale, yes they can now buy a different product which has an equal chance at selling. If the store has a more accurate picture of what they need to buy in order to keep their customers happy, they will make a better decision.

My 2 pennies.

[Dustcrusher]

My LGS owner knows there are some things he just can't get for us, and that it's fine if we buy those elsewhere.

Alkemy is a perfect example; I've been holding off on SAGA because I want to buy it from him if possible (some online retailers have it on preorder- I'm hoping this means some of the distributors will be getting it when it finally releases outside of their official online reseller in the US...but I digress).

In any event, I kept my order last year to the exclusives plus one early release (alternate Justice), and I plan to do the same this year.

[fishtank]

I have no LGS to sell me Malifaux, but I buy plenty of stuff from Online retailers that I would likely buy from an LGS, and that's on top of the stupid amount I dropped at the Wyrd booth at Gencon last year (walked away with a free aZoraida from Eric's bag o' stuff lottery as well. I don't play NB but that's an awesome model!).

Buy some stuff at Gencon. Save some stuff. Be sensible. Gencon is so full of shinies that you CAN'T get at your LGS that you really don't want to buy anything other than the "I really cannot wait to buy this model!" stuff anyway.

[Evaine]

Don't forget economics as well. A lot of people (I'd actually probably say most) can't afford to drop $500 in one shot on non-essential items. I certainly can't. So my Gen Con purchases will be limited to exclusive models, the new book, and maybe 1 or 2 other models. The rest will have to be bought slowly over time as I can afford them, thus sending money to the smaller retailers.

[Sliver Chocobo]

It looks like mess beacuse we've only seen a small amount so far and no masters, that we know of

And we don't what made for the old masters from what made for the new ones

[Gruesome]

I can tell the new releases are going to be awesome, because I am pretty tight on money at the moment.

ergo...

[ooshawn]

I share a conern that Gencon is hurting sales in local gaming stores. Though I think alot of times, it's the players and possibly the store owners responsibility to support what I like to refer to as "buy here, play here" mentality, that keeps brick and mortar stores healthy. It definitely screws over the local guy when you order 10 or 15 copies of a rulebook only to find out your player base purchased a few days later from Gencon. While it's definitely a issue, I don't really know how to go about solving it. STore owners need to charge a nominal fee for time and space used in there store if people aren't going to pay for product in that store. even if its a dollar per player per day.

[Keltheos]

There's a responsibility here on both the customer and the store owner as well. Customers should be willing to let their store know they're going to Gen Con and may/will be buying items there. It's a courtesy a regular should give their local shop. And, store owners should know their customer base. If those 15 copies of the book are mainly going to the 'regulars' who play Malifaux and a few of those regulars are going to the con, odds are most/all of the regulars will have bought the book there. Ask and adjust initial order numbers accordingly.

When players are intimidated about communicating with their LGS, and the LGS doesn't bother to poll its regulars then there is going to be some stock collecting dust post-Gen Con. That'll happen whether or not Gen Con vendors adjust their plans or not.

[Omenbringer]

This comes up every year around this time.

I dont see a huge problem with it for a few reasons

1. Not everyone can go to GenCon (or send Ninja Shoppers) due to costs or distance.
   
2. Most people focus their purchasing on the limited edition, only purchaseable at the con (or select web events) merchandise.
   
3. Not everyone has a huge pile of cash to drop on all the early release stuff.
   
4. The community isn't static, as the game is played in the local stores the communnity will grow and new players will purchase the normal release product.

Granted this impacts game stores that are closer to GenCon much more than those that are say 400+ miles away, but I cant think of a game company that doesn't do the same thing at the con. Hell Privateer Press just had an event that released a lot of the new models and book weeks to months before they will be available in stores (and the colosals aren't exactly a low priced item).

It is a valid concern but one which is also often blown out of proportion.

[ThePandaDirector]

I kinda hope that most of the starter boxes for the new Master come out in September, that way it doesn't take too long for new people to get the core of that new awesome crew they saw a veteran playing. It also means I have less time to wait should I break bank before I get to them (Puppet Wars first, women and children later).

But yeah, I have no FLGS that I go to, and I most certainly can't go to Gencon (we're gonna need to bring back the "special" avatar...) I'm not sure what Wyrd is trying to achieve with the 70% thing; perhaps 70% fits into the starter sets with a few singles (like the first release of the game) or they have more in pipeline to overcome the loss of 70% post-Gencon shiny factor. Who knows

[Kuro]

I had the same concern about the early releases, but I also understand that Wyrd has to get people energized about their new products. Hopefully, whatever an LGS would miss out on, would be recouped by people buying even more product, paints, etc. through them. Anything that gets people playing and interested in collecting is good for the health of the hobby and in the long run, is probably good for the stores.

Personally, I plan on waiting until I can purchase through my FLGS. (Coincidentally, I believe I'm loyal to the same store as the OP.) Though, I'm super excited about Ten Thunders... so admittedly, it will feel like a very long wait.

:1_Exhausted_Puppet:

[Boscotopia]

There's a responsibility here on both the customer and the store owner as well. Customers should be willing to let their store know they're going to Gen Con and may/will be buying items there. It's a courtesy a regular should give their local shop. And, store owners should know their customer base. If those 15 copies of the book are mainly going to the 'regulars' who play Malifaux and a few of those regulars are going to the con, odds are most/all of the regulars will have bought the book there. Ask and adjust initial order numbers accordingly.

When players are intimidated about communicating with their LGS, and the LGS doesn't bother to poll its regulars then there is going to be some stock collecting dust post-Gen Con. That'll happen whether or not Gen Con vendors adjust their plans or not.

+1