Whats your view on cheaters?

[Huang Da Wei]

I stopped playing GW games partly because of the win at all costs people I was meeting, when I charged it seemed I was a 'a few mil short' but when the charged it was 'well its near enough'.

Quite frankly I get fed up with it, guys for f888 sake its a GAME.

Now I have just experienced my first Malifaux player and I just wondered what your take on it is, do you argue, shout, point it out loudly or what?

The person I played managed to make all bar 2 of the flips he needed during the game, every trigger he wanted he got. When we started the game he just went ahead, moved, got his first objective and then said your turn, my reply was 'shall we flip for initiative first then'?

I am a very passive person, if people have a sad enough life that they feel the need to get a buzz out of cheating I will let them, I will play along but they will never get on a board of mine again.

[Mantis840]

quick question, was your opponent playing the collette and showgirls? i know they get to move before the game even starts?

[Huang Da Wei]

nope, LCB

[Math Mathonwy]

So you think that he was somehow cheating with his deck? That's extremely difficult to do efficiently in a way that you won't get caught, so I guess my hat's off to him in that regard. Otherwise cheating is naturally rather pitiful behaviour, but that goes without saying, really.

[Huang Da Wei]

I prefer not to double check every card my opponent flips, but when it goes past the first few 'ah, that gets me xyz trigger' you tend to be a bit suspicious.

[Gruesome]

I prefer not to double check every card my opponent flips, but when it goes past the first few 'ah, that gets me xyz trigger' you tend to be a bit suspicious.

Going before initiative is flipped is rude.

As far as his flips, unless you KNOW he cheated because you saw it, do not assume anything.

At adepticon, I had one round where my flips were so good that I was embarrassed by them for most of the game. My opponent did not say anything, but I reached a point where I was trying to clearly riffle(sp?) shuffle about 6 times out in the middle of the table and asking him to PLEASE cut my deck, then flipping cards with two fingers only just because I felt uncomfortable at my luck. No change, as my hand was still 10+, the only times weak cards were flipped were positive flips, etc.

I think I Red-Jokered for damage 3 times off the top of the deck.

Anytime since where I feel like the cards hate me, I think of that game and realize that I am still making up karma for it.

Sometimes, stuff just happens.

[Ratty]

I somehow doubt he could be manipulating his deck the way you describe. Due to the way the game plays you can't know which order you will flip your card. It could as easily be 2 cards for damage as 1. So any ordering of the deck would quickly go out of sync.

The most I think I could manage is to force a single card into my starting hand or

possibly initiative, and even then I'm not good enough that I would be confident enough to attempt it in a game, even after an awful lot of practice. (I also don't see the need to cheat, but other people might) There is a reason why close up card magic is considered to be hard by magicians.

If he was cheating, and it is very possible he wasn't (I've had 4 or 5 masks come up on a Trigger Happy or an Onslaught before now. Normally during a demo, just after I've explained how triggers work, normally when shooting the new players most expensive model. With me nervously giggling and apologising as it happens. It's almost becoming a cosmic joke.) If he was cheating I would consider it far more likely that he was calling triggers he didn't have. But I can't say without being there. And without you catching him in the act all you really could do is give him the benefit of the doubt.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Ratty

[Soulless Life]

As far as the flips go, sometimes the cards do just go like that. Last week, Sword Viktoria managed to trigger Whirlwind 7 times in a row. I finally cheated on the last one to not get the trigger.

Initiative? Make sure he understands how initiative works, then redo deployment.

'A few mm short'? If it's really that close, measure yourself and verify. But make sure you're consistent. If he's doing it to you, do it to him, and vice versa.

Or if you really didn't have fun, don't play him again.

I'm kind of like you. I'm very laid-back about it, but if they are really causing me to not have fun, I just won't play them again. If they ask for a game, I'll politely tell them that I'm waiting for ______ (insert name here), and we had a game planned.

[cerealkiller195]

never encountered anyone that i thought was intentionally cheating. maybe flipped too many cards or flipped at the wrong time but that was the "worst" things to happen concerning the fate deck

[Huang Da Wei]

I suppose my point is, do you watch your opponents flips? when they say I need 5+ and a crow do you check thats what they turned? At what point do you think, hang on he seems to be getting everything he needs?

Do you trust their flips or do you watch?

[Sandwich]

I suppose my point is, do you watch your opponents flips? when they say I need 5+ and a crow do you check thats what they turned? At what point do you think, hang on he seems to be getting everything he needs?

Do you trust their flips or do you watch?

You absolutely watch.

Make you sure you know their model cards.

It isn't cheating to scan LCB / Dreamer card before the game. [EDIT:] OR DURING.

>

Edited July 7, 2012 by Sandwich

[Keltheos]

...or during a game.

[Sandwich]

...or during a game.

Well, yeah.

[Cats Laughing]

I suppose my point is, do you watch your opponents flips? when they say I need 5+ and a crow do you check thats what they turned? At what point do you think, hang on he seems to be getting everything he needs?

Do you trust their flips or do you watch?

Your experience could be partially an issue with the Dreamer/LCB himself. I seem to recall that he has certain triggers that are basically "any 3+" and he also has paired on his claws (?) and two different triggers related to those claw attacks, meaning that it's pretty easy to get his triggers when he wants to.

I played a game recently against a Guild player who was constantly triggering Critical Strikes. After the first two I needed to look at his cards to remind myself that most of his models have a Ram baked into their CB and he wasn't just getting lucky flips. Blah.

But yeah, you should be watching his flips.

[Mantis840]

Yeah i just played in a tournament recent and I felt so bad for my opponent that I wanted to buy him him a beer. I honest to god throughtout that game made 13 neg dmg flips( we kept count after the first three) and 12 out of those 13 ended with a sev and moderate being fliped, so end result even my negs were dealing moderate dmg.

To ease your mind about "stacking" or card slipping you can do 3 things

A: watch your opponent flip n cheat cards

B:cut your opponents deck after each reshuffle

C: make a list that screws with your opponents deck( god I love my austringers lol)

If you do all three of those I don't think even Rainman could effeectively load the deck against ya heh.

[OldManMyke]

If people want to cheat its pretty easy to stack the deck by mixing multiple decks together. Who remembers how many 11 of tomes has been pulled in a round?

Personally if someone cheats against me, so what. If winning a game of toy soldiers is that important to their ego then so be it, its not going to change my life.

[Mike3838]

I'm curious. Where was he flipping his cards? If they were on the table opposite you, why couldn't you see every card he turned over?

[Mister_Q]

If it happens in one game, then "meh", whatever. If it happens again and you really think they're cheating or if you just don't enjoy playing against them (because of bad sports/no sense of humour/whatever) - then just don't play them again.

I know it can be easier said than done, but it's a game: both players are supposed to enjoy it.

[NinjaBreadMen]

I suppose my point is, do you watch your opponents flips? when they say I need 5+ and a crow do you check thats what they turned? At what point do you think, hang on he seems to be getting everything he needs?

Do you trust their flips or do you watch?

I'm normally fairly visualant about watching my opponents flips, but more because I don't know how a lot of non-outcast/ressers play, so I like to see how car dependant they are. I'll happily ask someone how they had a trigger twice with the same model if they flipped different suits, but I pose it as a "That's pretty awesome, is the trigger built in" rather than a straight challenge.

That said, I played a game yesterday against a new opponent and without thinking placed my deck right behind a building where he couldn't see it (I just always place it on my right) so when he rightfully asked me to move it, that was fine and I apologised - I think it's one of those situations where people aren't going to mind being challeneged unless they've something to hide in the first place.

Like you said, in the end, if you didn't have a good game as you weren't comfortable with your opponent, don't play them again

[scuttlebut]

Personally if someone cheats against me, so what. If winning a game of toy soldiers is that important to their ego then so be it, its not going to change my life.

I'll remember that when I knock you from top spot in the league with a deck of 54 red jokers *grin*

[Soundwave]

Cheaters? Love the lil buggers.

[krystophus]

we caught a guy using a deck with nothing lower than a 7 in it by buying 2 decks and combining them. Got caught pretty fast though playing the red joker twice in a row and he wasn't playing as Hamelin. He just cant get a game at all in our LGS now.

[Mach_5]

That guy wasn't too bright then... kinda like playing with a set of custom dice that all have a "6" on 4 of the sides. A little too obvious for anyone to fall for it for more than a few activations.

[Forar]

This thread seems to have two seperate topics combined; actual cheating (improper decks, conveniently ignoring detrimental rules or effects) and poor sportsmanship (overestimating ones own ranges, underestimating or exceptional anal retentiveness when dealing with ones opponent's ranges).

The former should not be tolerated. Not in a tournament setting, not in a casual setting. Unless everyone is on board with things being extremely lax, it does everyone a disservice to not call this kind of misbehaviour out, not only in being given an unfair disadvantage, but in that it also gives the offender more and more confidence that it's okay, tolerated or even expected.

The latter is a question of who you play with and in what setting. In a tournament with prizes on the line I'd expect my opponent to (within reason) be a stickler on a number of things, including ranges, proper use of abilities/triggers, etc. Within my circle of friends, however, it's generally not that big a deal. It's not like we tack on an extra inch to all ranges and call it a day, but it becomes sort of a social contract; we geneally all err on the side of caution, putting models a bit too close rather than trying to edge away too far, minimizing the need for such disputes and showing some understanding when it's literally down to a hair.

Luckily, we also generally play with others in the room, so worst case scenario an impartial third opinion is often at hand.

[CrazyCarl]

If you're worried about him misrepresenting the things he's flipping, just ask to see all cards as they're being flipped so you can remember what has been flipped that turn. This way you get to see what he's flipping and you don't come across as accusing him of cheating.