Dead doxy

[Huang Da Wei]

Ii have just ordered 2 of the lovely ladies as they look good and seem to be worth the points game wise. Any opinions from people who have used them and any good trick ?

I have most of the ressers but was thinking of running them with Seamus and his ladies of the evening.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I haven't found them to be worthwhile in any role other than just if you need a model to cover alot of ground. Really haven't found them useful at all. One of the players from Nix's group who comes on the Gamers Lounge often, said in a podcast that he doesn't find them useful either. Omenbringer however has said he finds them useful as a tarpit. Try them out. Love the models, LOVE belles, but actual use on the table... negligible in my experience. You however might find different.

[rancor709]

They are an interesting piece, they can really cover ground well, but they aren't as survivable as your standard belle and seduction is a such a hard spell to cast, I love the model and thematically they are great, but in actual game play your mileage may vary. Final Encore is interesting way to bring another belle into place and has some minor uses with sybelle or molly but giving half wounds to sybelle or molly is a great way to have them killed.

[CannonFodder]

I like them, especially with aSeamus, and they have terror. The (0) to move forward is rarely stopped, which leads to the casting of the spell that gives :-fate, this is usually cheated when defending, Now considering it uses a :tomes which few other Resser models use you can save the high :tomes for the Doxies with minimal worry about who else in your crew gets to use it. This leads to an effective Auto trigger for a free Shot or melee attack. People don't usually see that. Since the spell needs the :tomes, and she has the :crows its a freebie. While the Rotten Belle has the lure she doesn't do much damage. The Doxie has a 6 inch ranged shot that has a little more punch.

If playing with the Conv Gunslinger a Belle is better, but in aSeamus having a terror model move forward I think helps a lot. The biggest downside is the 6 wds instead of 8. If they had 8 I would say they are better than Belles all the time. With 6... its a matter what else are you bringing with them.

[Pierowmaniac]

I haven't played them yet, but I also was thinking surely they would be fairly useful when it comes to card suit's?

[Omenbringer]

I agree with CannonFodder's assessment of their offensive capability and definately think they have a pretty good defensive capability as well.

[Sandwich]

They're kinda niche, but not really.

So I don't have to write any more,

I've got about 20 minutes of downtime in between house cleaning so I'll write up a real quick Dead Doxy tactica, just for you!

Dead Doxy - 5 Soul Stones

The Dead doxy is the new Belle introduced in the third expansion of Malifaux, Rising Powers. She fills a specific niche that is more tailor-made for a Seamus crew, that is, the in-combat summon damage / support.

A big problem most players are going to have when looking at the Doxy for the first time is that she brings very little to the table for Seamus (Or any other Resurrectionist master, for that matter.) She's got the standard 'Low Df, Hard to Wound, moderate Wd' combo that most Resser models have. However, the Dead Doxy also has Strangly Attractive, which makes them pretty effective Spell Tanks versus quite a few crews that rely on multiple models laying down the law. It also works to slow down crews like Von Schill (Or several Vicky lists) from absolutely chewing you apart. Keep in mind it's a Simple duel, so Stubborn won't come into effect and no talent can ignore it.

Doxies are fairly more mobile than Belles, they only have a maximum Wk of 7, (9 with Molly, 12 with (1)Imbue Vigor) which is only 1 higher than your standard Belle, but they also get a Ca 7 push that has a debuff attached to it, so they do move significantly faster than your run of the mill Belle.

They're fairly solid 5 Pt. models without Molly Squidpiddge, with a decently reliable debuff that has incredibly powerful reprecussions (:-fate to Defense and Resist duels spells certain death in most cases. Their (1)Undress will work only slightly better than a Rotten Belle's but does help to increase the usage of the spell because you often spend all of a Rotten Belle's AP on (1)Lure.

If you're bringing in Molly Squidpiddge, the Doxies' (1)Seduction can be stolen and then cast with a Ca 7 and Use Soulstone, which pretty well ensures a successful cast.

(1)Seduction is probably in the top 5 most powerful spells in the game, especially with Resurrectionists (Or Levi.) Because they're all very spell reliant, (Yes, even McMourning needs to cast spells) and (1)Seduction downright guarantees things going your way on whoever is afflicted.

- - - - -

Abilities

Flirtatious Wink: Gives the Doxy 7 Ca when casting (0)Inviting Approach. This is often either an autowin, or a forced high card. It makes the Doxy fairly menacing in most games because it allows her to drop onto a model, cuddle its defenses, and then still have 2 AP to run the hell away. (Or try, try again.)

Hard to Wound 1: Makes this girls super tanks, even with 6 Wd, against ranged and spell crews. Moderate Wp makes them pretty hard to hit in the first place with a lot of spells and medium low Df means that you can actually compete in flips with smaller models.

Part of the Harem: Just lets Seamus summon them. Which is always a good idea to do as soon as possible. Always gauge the situation, "Who would be better here, a Rock(Rotten Belles) or a Hard Place(Dead Doxy)?" Remember Rotten Belles have a higher melee Cb than Doxies and will be better for keeping a model in place, but Doxies can whittle down an enemy model and run away easily. So pick wisely which you're summoning.

Shambling: Standard issue mobility buff.

Slow to Die: I'll explain a trick on when this is great in a second.

Strangely Attractive: Models 4" or more away targeting the Doxy with an Attack have to win a Wp->12 duel or the Action immediately fails. Please for the love of [generic deity] do NOT forget about this ability. A Doxy can stand in front of a gun line and flash them all in to absolute failure. It's ridiculously powerful for such a simple ability.

Actions

(1)Final Encore: This is pretty useless unless you have the Avatar of Dread on the table. Why? Because then all of your models become Terrifying->12. If a model has already pass the Terrifying Duel to hit the Doxy and you pull a switcheroo, that model has to beat ANOTHER Terrifying->12 immediately. It took me a little to figure this out but it is stupid powerful with Avatar Seamus. Try it out a few times and tell me how many people go for the Doxy afterwards.

Triggers

Fatal Distraction: Gives you a free swing if you succeed in casting (1)Seduction or (1)Undress. It's an autotrigger for (1)Seduction because you need to flip a :tomes anyway. You'll occasionally hit things with your gun, so it's always worth a try if you can pull it off.

Rot: It's nice when you flip a crow in a melee strike, but I just don't really see the practicality of it. This trigger is present for the fluff and nothing more.

Regret: Super situational defensive trigger, works great when it works, completely forgotten when it doesn't. It's nice to stop Teddy from instabanning your Doxy, but doesn't do much else.

Spells

(0)Inviting Approach: Usually an autocast, you need 6 of anything to get it off. It gives you a free push towards a model and a free (1)Seduction if you end within 4" of that model, which you usually will. Fairly powerful mobility tool.

(1)Seduction: Has a pretty difficult cast, you need a moderate-high :tomes to get it to go, but it has incredibly destructive capabilities. A :-fate to Defense and Resist duels usually spell D E A D for whatever model failed to resist. It can be annoying when you have this spell and no reliable means to cast it, but when you've got that high :tomes sitting in your hand and a 9 point model right down the road, it feels great.

(1)Undress: Moderate CC, decent debuff. You'll be casting this more often with the Doxy than your Rotten Belles, so don't be shy to blast an enemy model with a Focus Cast undress to pave the way for Seamus' gun, or meaty green giant fists.

- - - -

Final Thoughts,

1. Is the Dead Doxy worth getting?

Hell yes it is. They're powerful niche models with high mobility, powerful defense and sleeper OP Spell. It's great to drop a fate twist bomb on a clutch model and then just wreck it with your crew. They're low cost models with a high movement rate so starting with them isn't always taboo, and they can be summoned into the middle of things if you're in a pinch.

2. What counters the Dead Doxy?

Fast models. The Doxy is pretty solid in the defensive area, and is moderate high speed compared to a lot of other models. But anything that can outrun her will just leave her in the dust. You can always focus down bigger models with the Doxy but if your opponent is someone like Colette, you'll just be constantly frustrated with how little they accomplish.

3. What does the Dead Doxy Counter?

High Risk, High Reward models like Von Schill, Cassandra, Shikome, or Nix. She can easily lock down models when you couple her with a Belle, can drop a bomb on objective Grabbers and can escape a lot of dreary situations that players will use for counters versus her.

4. How well does a Doxy work for

• McMourning: Badly, sort of. They can move with your crew and increase McMourning or Simulcrum's damage output, but that's about it. You've got far better tanks and way better damage dealers than the Doxy that will be replaceable. I'd skip the Doxy for this one.
  
• Nicodem: Pretty great. They can be summoned, so mobility isn't an issue. They're great tools to use with Punk Zombies and can actually deal respectable damage because of (0)Bolster Undead. Definately suggest using them.
  
• Kirai: They aren't terrible, but most experienced players will skip them. I haven't had much playtime with a Doxy and Kirai so I can't say definitively, but, they're too slow, don't fit the meta and aren't very useful for anything.
  
• Leveticus: You tell me, I've never tried it.
  

[Omenbringer]

Sandwhich, you could have just provided the link to your thread (though I did like reading the write up again).

One correction though, Strangely Attractive can be ignored by Lady Justice's (and any of her crew effected by it) spell Blind Justice since it is an effect not a talent.

[Valcurdra]

I play Seamus and I just got them and haven't tried them out yet but to me they seem awesome on paper.

Seduction is an awesome spell that destroys the defences of anything it is successfully cast on.

Aside from that they have some other useful abilities.

I would defiantly not start with more than 1 for Seamus as you can always just summon them in later. Starting with 1 could be useful for quick objective grabbing though.

Also sandwich as far as I can tell rotten belles cant use cb6 to make disengaging strikes as it is only a range 1 attack and you can only use your longest melee range strike

[Adanedhel]

Sandwich, Leveticus likes them, a lot , with double minus he doesn't even need to do more then beat CC to reliably get something killed, and if you're taking molly anyway (she has quite some use with Levi) they become quite awesome

[Omenbringer]

II would defiantly not start with more than 1 for Seamus as you can always just summon them in later. Starting with 1 could be useful for quick objective grabbing though.

Actually Seamus cant Summon them in game (Arise my Sweet only allows him to summon Rotten Belles). Molly however can summon them in game via Undead Construction (as well as Sybelle).

[Wyrdbeard]

Actually Seamus cant Summon them in game (Arise my Sweet only allows him to summon Rotten Belles). Molly however can summon them in game via Undead Construction (as well as Sybelle).

The doxies can be summoned by seamus. Their ability "part of the harem" allows Seamus to summon them.

[Omenbringer]

Thanks for the catch, I always forget about that one in play. I usually just have Molly do it since by the time I have lost one, Avatar Seamus is on the field and cant do it.

This does make me wonder though if you need to have a Dead Doxy in play in order to be able to summon another one with the Part of the Harem ability, since otherwise you wouldn't have access to the ability.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Omenbringer

[Fetid Strumpet]

If that was true you'd never be able to summon a rogue Necromancy, as the ability to summon it is printed on its card, and it is rare 1. Also Zoraida wouldn't be able to summon wicked Dolls as again their ability that allows Zoraida to summon them is on their card.

I can see why you would say that, but it is pretty apparent that abilities on cards which affect how they can be summoned do not have to already be in play for them to function.

[Omenbringer]

Never gave much thought to it until now actually, but it does raise the question if you need to have hired the model to begin with or had it in play in some other way (Molly summons it first) in order to use a special ability on its card that allows you to summon it via a differnt method (would apply as well with the Rogue Necromancy and the Wicked Dolls). I assume you don't but it probably wouldn't hurt to have an official answer either way.

[Ausplosions]

Never gave much thought to it until now actually, but it does raise the question if you need to have hired the model to begin with or had it in play in some other way (Molly summons it first) in order to use a special ability on its card that allows you to summon it via a differnt method (would apply as well with the Rogue Necromancy and the Wicked Dolls). I assume you don't but it probably wouldn't hurt to have an official answer either way.

No, it is quite clear.

Stop complicating something that does not need complicating.

It's rare 1, so to have one on the field, so you can summon one is redundant. You can't summon another one till it's dead, and when it's dead it's not in play. So you are back to not having one in play to summon the other.

Please just don't.

[Omenbringer]

Not complicating it at all, meerly trying to clarify it (since it is not really 100% clear).

This is the reason I asked if you would have had to have hired one to begin with (or had another model that could summon it bring it in first) before you had access to the summon modification ability of the model (Granted the Rouge Necromancy may be Rare 1 but once it dies you could summon another one).

I am assuming that you don't, however can also see arguments that you would.

[Ausplosions]

Not complicating it at all, meerly trying to clarify it (since it is not really 100% clear).

This is the reason I asked if you would have had to have hired one to begin with (or had another model that could summon it bring it in first) before you had access to the summon modification ability of the model (Granted the Rouge Necromancy may be Rare 1 but once it dies you could summon another one).

I am assuming that you don't, however can also see arguments that you would.

So, your argument is that you need to have these models on the board in order to summon them. So:

RM is hired > RM is on the board > You can summon another RM > It is Rare 1 > You cannont summon another.

The ONLY way you can summon a RM is if you DONT HAVE an RM. And if you don't have one/it dies, then you can't summon one.

This does not work.

It is absolutely, 100% clear that you do NOT need to have hired them first.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ausplosions

[Omenbringer]

So, your argument is that you need to have these models on the board in order to summon them. So:

RM is hired > RM is on the board > You can summon another RM > It is Rare 1 > You cannont summon another.

The ONLY way you can summon a RM is if you DONT HAVE an RM.

It is absolutely, 100% clear that you do NOT need to have hired them first.

You are not understanding the question at all, so let me be clearer.

You hire a Rouge Necromancy in to the crew which would allow the modification of the Summoning spells of Nicodem or McMourning. During the game it dies which would allow you the opportunity to summon another one in game. Because it was hired initially and modified the relevant spells, Nicodem or McMourning would now be able to use the modified spell to summon another one.

This is a lot different than never having had the Rogue Necromancy in the crew at all but allowing it to modify their spells and allowing them to summon them.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Omenbringer

[Ausplosions]

But if it is not on the board, how can it modify their spells/summoning ability?

Does the Primordail Magic continue to give an extra card once it's removed from play?

[Omenbringer]

Because it was originally hired into the crew allowing the modification of the requisite spell.

[Ausplosions]

You are not understanding the question at all, so let me be clearer.

You hire a Rouge Necromancy in to the crew which would allow the modification of the Summoning spells of Nicodem or McMourning. During the game it dies which would allow you the opportunity to summon another one in game. Because it was hired initially and modified the relevant spells, Nicodem or McMourning would now be able to use the modified spell to summon another one.

This is a lot different than never having had the Rogue Necromancy in the crew at all but allowing it to modify their spells and allowing them to summon them.

No, it's no different to any ability changing hiring restrictions. Otherwise you couldn't hire Mctavish in a Gremlin crew until it was hired in a Gremlin crew, as it's ability to be hired in a gremlin crew is printed on it's card.

[Toonook]

+1 Ausplosions

[Omenbringer]

No, it's no different to any ability changing hiring restrictions. Otherwise you couldn't hire Mctavish in a Gremlin crew until it was hired in a Gremlin crew, as it's ability to be hired in a gremlin crew is printed on it's card.

This is a bad example since McTavish (and several other models with similar abilities) modify the hiring rules (which occur prior to the game) and not Summoning actions that are utilized during play.

Once again I assume that it was intended to function this way but can see arguments the other way as well. Clarification is always a good thing.

[Ausplosions]

You must be a lawyer.

You are complicating something that is self-evident to everyone but you.

So you are saying that the summoning rules are changed in-game by hiring the RM?

But if that model is killed, it's card is no longer 'hired' or 'in play'. So any changes it makes to the game end. So it's changes to summoning no longer effect the game. So it can't be summoned. Ever.

We can do this dance all day mate, but there is no point. You are trying to find something where there is nothing.

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Okay, will not post this anymore in here. Let's take it to the rules discussion...

For some reason...