Holding the Black Joker in your Hand

[Hansel]

Is it nearly always the right strategy (I say "nearly" because there'll always be exceptions)?

Or is it very situational? Or is it nearly always the wrong strategy?

I find that when I draw it, I hold it without thinking too much about it. The last game I played, I had it for nearly the whole game and I nearly went through my deck on a couple different turns (when it was clear I would hit in a duel, a few times my opponent even cheated lower so I would have to draw more cards and possibly draw the black joker), so it served me well there.

Thoughts? Experiences?

[Necromorph]

I always hold it if I can, for that very reason. Now if I'm forced to do a triple negative flip I can only get lucky and flip the red joker.

Only problem is when I play Levi...he has to discard his entire hand every turn that he dies and comes back...so no dice on that with him.

[osoi]

Black Joker is good to hold, and can actually be good to play say if you have a flesh construct or just discard a card to do an action etc

[Hansel]

or just discard a card to do an action etc

I don't know about this one. If you absolutely have to throw a card and have NO low-ish cards in your deck (like, if everything's 9 or above), then I suppose I'd throw it. But you're served better by throwing, say, a 6. Because if you throw the Joker, it's back in your deck the next turn, plus you don't get any suits if any suits trigger from throwing the card away (I'm looking at you, Librarian).

[Buhallin]

I find this to be a very personal playstyle choice.

I don't hold it myself. It's certainly nice knowing where it is, but you're essentially dropping your hand size by one for the rest of the game to do it. Once you have it in your hand you're guaranteeing it's gone for two turns, and that's usually good enough for me. I'd rather have another card in hand to cheat with.

[naiatoc]

I hold it. That is, until turn 6. Then I don't mind dropping it. I draw a fresh hand, knowing it's in my discard pile. If the game goes on another turn, oh well, but if the game ends then I've maximized my hand while still keeping the black joker from coming up.

[Justin]

No. Never.

[Hansel]

No. Never.

Never hold?

Care to expand?

[poulpox]

Depends the master I play; the only time I try to keep it in my hand is with Dreamer, as if you pull that black jocker when you need to relocate during a hit and run you risk ending up with a singled out Dreamer away in the front of the field, and that most likely will cost you the game, so the safest the best for me!

[Sliver Chocobo]

Hold it in your hand so you can't flip it durring your turn

[ghostwalker]

I will hold it if I can. But if I need a card to discard or need to up my chances of specific suit cards in the draw phase then it can go. Playing perdita nd heroes gambling also gives you no choice.

[Q'iq'el]

Consider, that flipping the Black Joker is not always all that bad. The only cases where it really messes up with you are the damage flip and the healing flip. The former, because by that time you must have already invested a lot into getting the attack off (cheat as high as possible, perhaps toss the Soulstone in) and if it fizzles the cost in resources is rather big. The later, because you can lose your master with a twist of bad luck.

That is only a small portion of all the flips you make during the, even if the really important one.

In all the other flips Black Joker simply means you lose the duel. Could happen anyway (and on bright side you don't waste any Control Cards on cheating). Sucks to lose 1 or 2 AP on an attack which didn't work, but even if you held to your Black Joker, your opponent could have still beaten you with his own Flip/Control Hand. You just can't know that.

If I draw a Black Joker in a decisive turn, where I plan to have all the attacks, when I know I'll have to heal my master etc. etc. I'd hold to it. But early in the game it hurts too much to limit your hand size by 1 and late in the game it may not mater anymore. It's not an absolutely good move to make in every circumstances.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[ChefsDad]

I will always hold it if i can. If im being decapitated, it can go, but otherwise its staying in my hand. I just love the peace of mind it gives me, especially when casting spells.

[Serigala]

Consider, that flipping the Black Joker is not always all that bad. The only cases where it really messes up with you are the damage flip and the healing flip.

That is only a small portion of all the flips you make, even if the really important one.

In all the other flips Black Joker simply means you lose the duel. Could happen anyway (and on bright side you don't waste any Control Cards on cheating). Sucks to lose 1 or 2 AP on an attack which didn't work, but even if you held to your Black Joker, your opponent could have still beaten you with his own Flip/Control Hand. You just can't know that.

If I draw a Black Joker in a decisive turn, where I plan to have all the attacks, when I know I'll have to heal my master etc. etc. I'd hold to it. But early in the game it hurts too much to limit your hand by 1 and late in the game it may not mater anymore. It's not an absolutely good move to make in every circumstances.

As above.

Black Joker is usually only a tiny bit worse than a 1, and noone would ever dream of keeping hold of low cards in their hand, in order to avoid them coming up at a critical point in the game.

The only time it might help are when you know your opponent is card counting, and modifying his actions because he knows the Joker hasn't come up. But if he is smart enough to do that, then there's a good chance that he will suspect you might be holding the joker anyway.

[Drake]

As a Colette Player, if I have it in my hand I keep it, as that almost guarantees she will live through the game as no Black Joker on Slow to Die healing flip! Bodyguard scheme anyone?!

[ghostwalker]

True drake, you prefer it coming out when your trying to kill Nino on the damage flip whilst holding the red joker in your control hand lol.

[Carcosannoble]

I will always hold it if i can. If im being decapitated, it can go, but otherwise its staying in my hand. I just love the peace of mind it gives me, especially when casting spells.

Peace of mind is probably the nicest thing around. In the hand it stays for me too.

[karn987]

Nope never hold it in my hand. I don't want to use up one of my precious card slots for my hand with that and really it's only sheer chance that has the Black Joker pop up at a bad time. I've won more games by not holding it then I've lost by not holding it and I feel I can safely say that.

But *shrugs* just my way of doing things, I play the #'s and the chance is I won't draw it on a critical flip.

[magicpockets]

Hold it in my hand with JackDaw - no chance you're getting to control him for a turn lol. Aside from that I don't mind dropping it if needed, but "prefer" to keep hold of it.

On a side, don't forget if you're discarding multiple cards you can "hide" the black joker behind other cards you're discarding so any card counting opponents don't realise it's made it to your discard pile. Drake burned me with this, it's annoying to say the least.

[Fenrir]

Normally hold, but I sometimes cheat down with Rasputina to draw two more cards.

[Cadilon]

Consider, that flipping the Black Joker is not always all that bad. The only cases where it really messes up with you are the damage flip and the healing flip. The former, because by that time you must have already invested a lot into getting the attack off (cheat as high as possible, perhaps toss the Soulstone in) and if it fizzles the cost in resources is rather big. The later, because you can lose your master with a twist of bad luck.

That is only a small portion of all the flips you make during the, even if the really important one.

In all the other flips Black Joker simply means you lose the duel. Could happen anyway (and on bright side you don't waste any Control Cards on cheating). Sucks to lose 1 or 2 AP on an attack which didn't work, but even if you held to your Black Joker, your opponent could have still beaten you with his own Flip/Control Hand. You just can't know that.

If I draw a Black Joker in a decisive turn, where I plan to have all the attacks, when I know I'll have to heal my master etc. etc. I'd hold to it. But early in the game it hurts too much to limit your hand size by 1 and late in the game it may not mater anymore. It's not an absolutely good move to make in every circumstances.

Count me in this camp as well. With the crews I've played, I'd much rather have the card slot than the Black Joker out of play.

[ukrocky]

Situational. I usually discard it at the start of a 'big' turn (I find there to be 2 big turns a game usually), meaning it's been outta the game 2+ turns which is good enough.

[mythicFOX]

Situational. I usually discard it at the start of a 'big' turn (I find there to be 2 big turns a game usually), meaning it's been outta the game 2+ turns which is good enough.

:ditto:

[Jonas Albrecht]

Its extremely good fortune to draw it at the beginning of your turn, so much so that we houseruled it so that you have to discard it without replacing it immediately.

[LonelyPath]

I usually hold on to it in case I have to discard a card, when that happens it becomes pretty invaluable in avoiding having to discard a much better card. If I don't hold it I almost always end up flipping it in a defense flip.