Has anybody noticed?

[Raintar]

Has anybody noticed that the extra soulstones you buy for your master are always more power then any unit you could buy for the same cost? Basically what I'm saying in a scrap is that there's no reason not to have 8 soulstones, thoughts?

[Koali]

Well, i think that is a wide generalization.

8 SS are not bad but it depends to the Missions you have and to yopur oppnent aswell.

With for example possibly more minions your opponent would easly outnumber you.

That will not be a good thing in most of the times

[Cenotaph]

IIn my personal experience going for somwehere in the mid range, maybe 4-5 soulstones, seems to work best. Too many and you can end up with a play style that overly depends on them which is dangerous once they are gone. Of course this does vary slightly from master to master. I fully expect to use more with masters like Colette or Kirai.

In general the problem with soulstones is that unless they are generally only of use to your Master. So unless your master needs them to power spells or is likely to be giving/taking lots of damage they can sit there doing nothing. I've had battles where my master has been at the back being supportive but not taking damage whilst my minions were busy in combat. At times like these less soulstones and another minion to flank with is far more use.

But as I said, if differs from master to master and depending on your playstyle.

[nilus]

Nope. I tend to find about 4 ideal. To many strategies require bodies to be in certain places so I would rather have the bodies to complete them.

That and soul stones are not 100% sure things. One or two bad defense flips and you can end up with a dead Master and handful of useless soul stones.

[karn987]

Yeah I tend to end up with 4 to 5 SS for many of my masters as 8ss never gets used I find. Especially with Pandora, those extra SS can mean another Madness or bumping a Sorrow up to a Lilitu etc.

My reason is the same as Nilus, they are not 100% sure use on anything. You have to be lucky to get a good use out of them. I'd generally rather have another useful minion or a totem in many cases. Especially if I have one of the trickier Strategies.

[Teal]

For me it depends solely on the master. If I'm playing Pandora, all eight is a requirement, as it allows her to just about destroy everything in my opponents crew. Criid needs them for confiscated lore as well as offense, and Colette needs them for her ad Cassandra. But with masters like Ramos or Zoraida, I never find myself using those extra soulstones, and stick with their cache plus one or two.

[Lord Shaper]

Since I've only had experience with Lady Justice I find using 7SS a good balance for her as I mainly use them for keeping her alive.

If she's attacking they aren't needed but if she's out in the open after taking out someone there's a turn of fire or charges that she needs to defend against.

[huntroll]

It depends on the master imo. For support-oriented casters fewer is usually enough (except Sonnia), for combat oriented ones more could be required. For example McM (my main) needs as much SS as possible, because he has low defensive stats and his offensive stats are not that good either, so I have to use SS against Lilith, Perdita or Lady J. Though having 8 SS with McM is pretty easy, that extra 2 SS is only the price of a Canine Remains...

[Iamwyrd]

I play raspy alot now, so I typically run with 7ss to allow me to make spells irresistible in desperate situations, and damage prevention flips as well.

[Poko]

I run 6-7 for Lilith, and used to use aroun 5-6 for all the arcanists. There is a handful of masters which don't really need the stones like Nico, but generally yes, it's often better to boost a powerful spell/attack of the master than to have another 3-4SS model for the same price.

[Q'iq'el]

Has anybody noticed that the extra soulstones you buy for your master are always more power then any unit you could buy for the same cost? Basically what I'm saying in a scrap is that there's no reason not to have 8 soulstones, thoughts?

IMHO it very strongly depends on the master. Not all masters are about being in the thick of things and killings stuff themselves. Nicodem is a great example of master who needs 3~4 SS for self defense and that's about it. Most of the time the killing will be done by the models he buffed to Cb8~9 and when he'll be casting Decay, it more often will be for healing effect than damage (and you don't need to SS the cast for that).

[Zombie_Pimp]

I apear to be agreeing with everyone else by thinking it depends on the master but I will say may favorites use a lot of soulstones.

for example: I used to run seamus wth 4-6Soulstones. then i tried him once with max and now its 7-8 all the time I just love prevent damage flips especially considering how hard it is to do more than 2 or 3 damage to Seamus in the first place. and the .50 flintlock get vastly better whith soustones. I think seamus CAN run with fewer SS but he becomes a front line master with 7-8.

[Chucklemonkey]

I apear to be agreeing with everyone else by thinking it depends on the master but I will say may favorites use a lot of soulstones.

Also agree. I also wouldn't always sacrifice the numbers for the stones as it gives the opponent all important activations in hand.

[Omenbringer]

Taking Somer with 8 SS is going to put a serious damper on a lot of his early game startegies.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I never have, or needed to, run a master with more than 6ss. And a lot of times I am spending the last of them on turn 6 anyways, so I havn't felt the need to bring more. It really does depend on the master and gaming style.

Just as it should be to. I love that about Malifaux, it allows flexibility for different styles.

[Raintar]

For me it depends solely on the master. If I'm playing Pandora, all eight is a requirement, as it allows her to just about destroy everything in my opponents crew. Criid needs them for confiscated lore as well as offense, and Colette needs them for her ad Cassandra. But with masters like Ramos or Zoraida, I never find myself using those extra soulstones, and stick with their cache plus one or two.

Hah I like this post.

On a side note, I've found that generally cheating and soulstoning defense is much better then flipping for damage prevention. On certain masters with low defense, this isn't viable but in others with average to high defense, it makes them alot harder to kill.

[Justin]

Has anybody noticed that the extra soulstones you buy for your master are always more power then any unit you could buy for the same cost? Basically what I'm saying in a scrap is that there's no reason not to have 8 soulstones, thoughts?

Without reading the rest of the thread: people are going to tell you that that's a huge generalization. And it is. And then they're going to give you examples where it's not true. Which there are.

But, on the average, I would say: yes. I have noticed that. I just about always take a full cache.

Except with sommer.

Poor, broke Sommer and his zero cache and need for lots of models.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Justin

[alemon]

Without reading the rest of the thread: people are going to tell you that that's a huge generalization. And it is. And then they're going to give you examples where it's not true. Which there are.

But, on the average, I would say: yes. I have noticed that. I just about always take a full cache.

Except with sommer.

Poor, broke Sommer and his zero cache and need for lots of models.

: ( those gremlins.

I like taking 8 soulstones with Perdita, but in most other cases I like taking more models.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Without reading the rest of the thread: people are going to tell you that that's a huge generalization. And it is. And then they're going to give you examples where it's not true. Which there are.

But, on the average, I would say: yes. I have noticed that. I just about always take a full cache.

Except with sommer.

Poor, broke Sommer and his zero cache and need for lots of models.

We did on both accounts. Not to say taking the full cache is wrong, just it can be over kill with some masters that need more bodies than ss.

I should try taking a full cache sometime and see if it plays different. I know from my record what I am doing works really well for me, but it doesn't hurt to try something new.

[Rathnard]

As a general rule of thumb, front-line Masters that get into the thick of things tend to need a higher SS cache than those who have more of a supporting role. I've never found any need for more than the minimum SS-cache for Zoraida, but Pandora definitely likes any extra SS you can give her.

Levictus is an odd exception. He's a front-line master, but his incredible card-drawing mechanics plus the fact that he doesn't care much about getting killed means that his soulstones are usually better spent on minions.

[AvatarForm]

Wow... interesting thread. With all the new minions in Book 2, combining this with the tendency to swarm cheaper minions in many factions, consider this:

Your SS pool cant claim objectives for you and if you are outnumbered, those additional activations for minions could be the tipping point.

Eg. You could effectively have Raspy try to blast her way clear of a situation, but without minions to amplify her spells' effects, you are fighting an uphill battle.

[Keltheos]

I was pretty happy with my 35 point Ophelia Crew where she only had 4 soulstones (which was less than her max) last night.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I haven't had my Lilith fail me on the frontline and I only take 4 or 6 soul stones with her. Her high defense and supporting crew is enough to keep her alive no problem.

Ophelia on the other hand I take the full 6ss she is allowed because assuring her defensive stance at the frontline while supporting her crew is harder with her. Still she hasn't died on me yet.

:ophelia Bayou warter girl, you rock me.

[Raintar]

Wow... interesting thread. With all the new minions in Book 2, combining this with the tendency to swarm cheaper minions in many factions, consider this:

Your SS pool cant claim objectives for you and if you are outnumbered, those additional activations for minions could be the tipping point.

Eg. You could effectively have Raspy try to blast her way clear of a situation, but without minions to amplify her spells' effects, you are fighting an uphill battle.

Your opponent can't win if they have nothing on the board. If you have an 8SS master they will not slow down and will run through the entire opposing army. That is the point I'm trying to make, of course there are some masters who don't need 8 SS like Nicodem Ramos etc., but generally 8SS will be a tall order to deal with.

[Rathnard]

Your opponent can't win if they have nothing on the board.

There's missions where you can have nothing left on the board and still win, but that's beside the point.

When I'm faced with a Master who's taken a full SS cache then I've got three options. First, I could apply minimal resources to erode away his soulstone cache until he has nothing left. Usually this involves Zoraida, a voodoo doll and Obey, which usually allows me to do some great damage to the master with one of their own minions.

Secondly, (and often after applying option 1) I could simply alpha-strike the Master by throwing most of my forces at him or in the case of the last game I played, Killjoy. Even with a pile of soulstones, there's not alot of Masters who can survive most of the other players crew focussing on them.

Third, I could simply ignore the master and kill their crew. Even Lilith isn't that dangerous when she's got no friends to help her out. Sure she can kill a few minions, but she can't be everywhere at once and with the most strategies/schemes, I don't need to touch her and I can still win.

None of these plans are fool-proof and there's no doubt that adding to the SS cache will make a Master harder to take down, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as more SS cache = better, even for the melee centric masters like Lilith. As with all things, it's a balance. Sometimes you'll want more minions for fulfilling the objectives, and other times you'll want to boost your master up.