Question about story in Book 2 (Warning Spoilers Inside)

[WookieeGunner]

Ok, just a second Spoiler warning for people who are waiting on their LGS to get Book 2. This thread has spoilers.

Now, I was reading the story in Book 2 and got to the point where the wave goes out and hits everyone. Totally realise that this is the justification for the avatar forms, no problem there. Then it mentioned about people who might have better control of soul stones then they realized getting hit. Ok, cool, an excuse for new non-avatar masters. Then it mentioned that Fransico was one of those people. Now we have already seen Hamlin being promoted to Master, so now I'm wondering if this is a hint we will see Fransico as a Master in Book 3. Comments?

[goblyn13]

you'll see other current models in there too (like a certain little girl). and anything more would be telling.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I've wanted an Experienced version of Francisco for awhile, so I really hope your conclusion is right.

[WookieeGunner]

you'll see other current models in there too (like a certain little girl). and anything more would be telling.

I daw her, it just didn't seem to affect her as much. I didn't want to seem like a sucker if she didn't count.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I daw her, it just didn't seem to affect her as much.

I would say her transformations was the most marked.

[WookieeGunner]

Ok, I'll have to go back and reread it, I might have missed something first time.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Ok, I'll have to go back and reread it, I might have missed something first time.

I recommend it. The implications are very interesting.

The other thing I thought was really cool is the explanation for Perdita's Bullet Bending.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Jonas Albrecht

[nerdelemental]

Ok, I'll have to go back and reread it, I might have missed something first time.

I think you should.

Candy, for sure, did not go unmarked.

[WookieeGunner]

Just went back and reread it. On first read through my eyes jumped that paragraph, so I just noticed the headache. I do agree about the implications.

[gunpowder saint]

...I'm getting worried. I love the game but I feel as though they're expanding too fast and spreading themselves WAY too thin. I mean they're already talking about book 3, Avatar Forms, and more experienced Minions. Which is all cool and all it makes the story super interesting but now here's the big question...

Can Hamelin, take Hamelin? I know the whole Unique rule states that he can't be there twice and since, and granted they'll probably say something like, "Unique: there can not be two models of the same name on the board" which means you have to choose either Master Hamelin, or minion hamelin.

and with the lack of Book 1 synergy that I noticed it gives a feeling of over all rush to the books that's worrisome like they're running forward and leaving people in the dust. Like the Codex Creep that we see So Many Other miniature games do now a days, and I'm not accusing or saying that it's going to happen but maybe they should just slow down after book 3 ya know? :\ the more stuff you add the harder it is for new players to get into the game because now they need TWO books instead of one, soon to be three...

anyway thanks for reading and honestly please don't agree with me... I love this game and I really want to see it blast off with the kind of success it's seen lately, I just don't want it to supernova and burn out so quickly after it came out ya know?

[Jonas Albrecht]

I wouldn't worry. One new book a year? I'd be hard pressed to make a case for that being codex creep, and I just don't understand where the charges of rushed and lack of synergy come from. Nor would I get concerned with the game burning out quickly. In the march to next August, we're going to see the figures from Rising Powers released, and likely some errata, and if I'm not mistaken, the next big release is going to be Puppet Wars, so that will act as a speedbump to the things that concern you.

[Extinction Angel]

Along those same lines (highlight to see):

I think Lady Justice is going to be our first Undead Master.

[Lucidicide]

...I'm getting worried. I love the game but I feel as though they're expanding too fast and spreading themselves WAY too thin. I mean they're already talking about book 3, Avatar Forms, and more experienced Minions. Which is all cool and all it makes the story super interesting but now here's the big question...

Can Hamelin, take Hamelin? I know the whole Unique rule states that he can't be there twice and since, and granted they'll probably say something like, "Unique: there can not be two models of the same name on the board" which means you have to choose either Master Hamelin, or minion hamelin.

and with the lack of Book 1 synergy that I noticed it gives a feeling of over all rush to the books that's worrisome like they're running forward and leaving people in the dust. Like the Codex Creep that we see So Many Other miniature games do now a days, and I'm not accusing or saying that it's going to happen but maybe they should just slow down after book 3 ya know? :\ the more stuff you add the harder it is for new players to get into the game because now they need TWO books instead of one, soon to be three...

anyway thanks for reading and honestly please don't agree with me... I love this game and I really want to see it blast off with the kind of success it's seen lately, I just don't want it to supernova and burn out so quickly after it came out ya know?

I can tell you from Beta experience that Wyrd is definitely keeping things in line so that there is no power creep and staying mindful of releasing too much in a given time frame.

Also, Book 1 synergy is definitely there, it's just not absolutely everywhere. The trouble is that if you want to release new Masters, you have to support them at least as much as what's already out or people won't play them because they'll be weaker. If you release the new Masters + a bunch of stuff for the old Masters (which means new Masters need even more to keep up), it means that Wyrd is releasing an obscene amount of material in a book, and each book needs to keep growing.

Because Wyrd is keeping in mind over-expansion of their line and power creep, I think it is entirely reasonable to say that you do not need Book 2 (or won't need Book 3, whatever it may contain) to be able to be competitive in the game. This should help keep the entry point a bit lower. Over time it will naturally get harder because you'll need to learn a bit about all the different Masters to be competitive, but that is greatly limited by the fact that you can play small games with limited models.

I should note that I have nothing to do with Wyrd, don't know what's in Book 3 or where the story's going, etc.

[Guy in Suit]

I'm a little annoyed they keep releasing rules without models. I think its only damaging to their sales and kills the kype around new digs.

Obviously they needed to do so when the game was first released so they had a fully functional rules set... but now.. why? Would it really be a bad thing if, say, the Friekorps rules/cards were only available in their box set/blisters when they are released?

They'd certainly sell a lot more of them at release time, not to mention not lose sales to people who want to use them once seeing the rules and proxy/convert instead.

I just get annoyed every time new material is released I get to play against a wave of proxies...

[pigi314159]

Back so the story...

SPOILERS

...so the governor is a soulstone user eh?

[gunpowder saint]

I finally got my book and I must put forth a slice of personal philosophy. I don't think Fransico, and Candy are getting "experianced" forms. I believe that due to the events in the story I believe we're going to open the flood gates for

"Minions leading Crews" or the whole "Upgrade Minion to Henchman" thing, since in the first few pages we see Sonnia pass Mr. Hopkins and bag of soulstones telling him to master them. That was a giant blinking neon sign for me. Also any more experianced forms, or new masters would be way too much, since Hamelin needed a group all to himself, sure Fransico has the Ortega's but Kandy only had Baby Kade and Teddy. but anyway that's my idea.

[mekboyz]

Yup the governor is a soulstone user might we have are mighty leader as a master in the future???

Also there's two ways a mini company can relase things. They way wyrd does it by releasing the books then the models so you can make decisions based on rules and the way some other companies do it and release models and no rules so you have to buy blindly to find out the model does nothing good for your army.

Which would you rather? Personally I like to know what the figs do before I purchase them

[Jonas Albrecht]

Given that The Guild is a guild of mages, I don't find it too surprising that the Governor General is a soulstone user.

[Ciaran]

I'm kind of shocked that people would feel that there's no synergy with the first book, or have concerns with creep.

I thought the book was incredibly well done for adding new models useable for everyone in the first book. The fact that they added SO many possibilities for the original masters is great to my mind.

[izikial]

when i first read through the book, i thought candy had just become a lilitu, enjoying the pain and being more grown up,

did you notice also that when it happen lucius is refranced as transphorming, witch sounds cool,

i think they should do a comic, cus i need anothere fix, i couldnt put the story down

also side note, ramos can make anything his best to date being the leviathan, and the hoff can make anything live without the need for ss, im thinkign ramos might want to get the hoff to power the leviathan, or the hoffs powere sauce that poweres the mechanical atendant unless thats just his will to

Edited September 7, 2010 by izikial

[scythewing]

The story was amazing and can’t wait for the next chapter. I do love how they introuduced the avatar masters and maby new masters or upgradable henchmen. There are a lot of questions left at the end of the story. Like what about Lady Justice and the Judge? Also what did Nico mean when he said LJ was not human? Is the Governer General going to be an avatar or just a master? How will Criid be punnished or be hunted as a rogue mage by the guild? So many questions and we will only find out when the next book comes out.

[magicpockets]

but Kandy only had Baby Kade and Teddy. but anyway that's my idea.

Unless Pandora (and the other Avatar models) are moved "above" masters and Candy is taking over the pandora-esq list in a master role? Same that Fransico could be taking over the family with Perdita getting elevated...

Who knows huh?

[izikial]

i know peaple might not like me saying this, but i think sonia is a possesd by a tyrant enterty, like rasputina. she has spells simaler to rasputina, she was hunting for things with the snake on them like hamlin was, and its possible shes possesd but hiding it, i mean it would make sens that a tyrant would want to be part of the guild, when tyrants take a human form they loses there ability to see everywear at once, so it would make sens for them to join an orgonisation that will let them get inforation from all over, and becus she works for they guild she wont be hunted by peaple like her, just a thought.

[GuySmiley]

The new book is packed with fun and implication. However, a few thoughts on what I have read on this thread.

First I don't think that Sonnia is possessed by anything. It was made pretty clear with Rasputina that she was getting help. The clarification has been made with most of the ressurectionists (Seamus being the best example) getting whispers.

Sonnia is just a hungry woman. She spends her time doing all of the work because she wants the power. What created this hunger could be a matter of history but at this point it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme. Perhaps it is a daddy issue. I guess her and now grown up stripper candy will be able to share absent father issues.

As for the Governor becoming a master. That is pretty scary to think of. I mean his proxy kills you if you kill it and kills your models if they run. Insta killing models like that is pretty brutal for just a proxy. Also, the man is the target of about half the book and really doesn't seem to worry about it to much at all. His focus is more what they can do to his plans then what they can do to him. Which should give you a feel for how high on the totem pole he is.

They might make him a master but they would have to lower his power which really hurts the story in the long run.

[Penemue]

The story was amazing and can’t wait for the next chapter. I do love how they introuduced the avatar masters and maby new masters or upgradable henchmen. There are a lot of questions left at the end of the story. Like what about Lady Justice and the Judge? Also what did Nico mean when he said LJ was not human? Is the Governer General going to be an avatar or just a master? How will Criid be punnished or be hunted as a rogue mage by the guild? So many questions and we will only find out when the next book comes out.

While Lady Justice and her Judge don't actually carry the undead tag in the rules, I'd be very surprised if they don't turn out to be some sort of undead. They are, after all, living contradictions of a sort: their symbolism is based around the tipped scales of justice, and her totem is supposed to represent justice, but is actually a crippling form of punishment. This overarching theme of "what you see is not what you get," combined with the Governor's little slip that the Judge's face is half-rotted-off, leads me to believe that these two might be trying to hunt undead in order to justify their own existences and/or redirect attention away from themselves...

Something like that. Not the clearest exposition on my part, but it's too early to write coherently