What about the little guys?

[Thatguy]

52 minutes ago, Cats Laughing said:

Another possibility would be to allow placement only on minions X soulstones or cheaper

Yeah this was another thought I had. Make it explicit that only cheap models in a certain price range can score. 

Something like:

Herd the Nerfs-

During deployment you may put a Scruffy token on any significant model with a soulstone cost of 5 or less. Models with Scruffy tokens may take an interact action while in the enemy deployment zone to discard them and place a strategy marker in base contact, not within 4" of any other strategy markers. At the end of the turn you score one point if there are more strategy markers in your opponent's deployment zone than you have scored points from this Strategy.

 

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Yeah this was another thought I had. Make it explicit that only cheap models in a certain price range can score. 

Something like:

Herd the Nerfs-

During deployment you may put a Scruffy token on any significant model with a soulstone cost of 5 or less. Models with Scruffy tokens may take an interact action while in the enemy deployment zone to discard them and place a strategy marker in base contact, not within 4" of any other strategy markers. At the end of the turn you score one point if there are more strategy markers in your opponent's deployment zone than you have scored points from this Strategy.

 

 

 

Hooooo boy, Crooligans and Necropunks are going to smash this xD

[Harlekin]

10 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hooooo boy, Crooligans and Necropunks are going to smash this xD

As if only we Rezzers had cheap mobile models. 

To give the less often seen models a bump we could disallow Placing for models with Scruffy Markers (similar to Corrupted Ley Lines). 

Poor Crools and poor leaping anythings. 

[Thatguy]

12 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hooooo boy, Crooligans and Necropunks are going to smash this xD

Yeah, no kidding. Some crews/keywords would have perfect minions for it. 

I think you could lower it to 4, but that still doesn't keep out Crooligans. And a lot of keywords don't even have access to minions that cheap.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Harlekin said:

As if only we Rezzers had cheap mobile models. 

To give the less often seen models a bump we could disallow Placing for models with Scruffy Markers (similar to Corrupted Ley Lines). 

Poor Crools and poor leaping anythings. 

The no place would really sort it out. Most of the cheap minions that see play can place.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I also think it'd be good to have "enemy table half" rather than "enemy deployment zone."

Really forces your opponent to hunt your stuff down. If it is deployment zone, they can just keep 1-2 beaters there and grind through your minions as they come.

[Thatguy]

2 minutes ago, Harlekin said:

As if only we Rezzers had cheap mobile models. 

To give the less often seen models a bump we could disallow Placing for models with Scruffy Markers (similar to Corrupted Ley Lines). 

Poor Crools and poor leaping anythings. 

This is a pretty good solution. Gotta run the hard way.

Even with this stuff like Piglets would be good with a cost of 3 and fast. Maybe Pistoleros would finally see play. lol

[Thatguy]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I also think it'd be good to have "enemy table half" rather than "enemy deployment zone."

Really forces your opponent to hunt your stuff down. If it is deployment zone, they can just keep 1-2 beaters there and grind through your minions as they come.

My worry would be that table half might be too easy. If you can give your minions fast you could potentially dump the 4 necessary tokens turn one.
Something like Hoffman's Watcher could dump one 14 inches up the field turn one, with fast and it's bonus. Heck, even further with a Guardian giving a Toss.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

My worry would be that table half might be too easy. If you can give your minions fast you could potentially dump the 4 necessary tokens turn one.
Something like Hoffman's Watcher could dump one 14 inches up the field turn one, with fast and it's bonus. Heck, even further with a Guardian giving a Toss.

Oh right, they don't have to stand there, just deposit a token.

Okay, maybe deployment zone is a lot more reasonable. Although I think if you have the 'no place' rule as well, on corner deployment you just go for 0 points on the strategy xD

[Harlekin]

2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

My worry would be that table half might be too easy. If you can give your minions fast you could potentially dump the 4 necessary tokens turn one.
Something like Hoffman's Watcher could dump one 14 inches up the field turn one, with fast and it's bonus. Heck, even further with a Guardian giving a Toss.

If we include a way to remove those markers by picking them up, again, that won't be much of a problem. 
Or if they could be pushed, like 4" with Interact? 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Although come to think, COULD it just be standing in the enemy table half?

That means you have to keep the little guys alive. But probably not, because then we come back to the 'kill the little ones' tactic.

2 minutes ago, Harlekin said:

If we include a way to remove those markers by picking them up, again, that won't be much of a problem. 
Or if they could be pushed, like 4" with Interact? 

I love the idea of making them pushable instead of pick up. That way you get rewarded for going deep, but it is also an option to just throw them down.

[Thatguy]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh right, they don't have to stand there, just deposit a token.

You could change it to something like:

Score a point if you have more friendly models with scruffy tokens on the enemy table half.
It fits the "herding" part if you have to keep them safe.

1 minute ago, Harlekin said:

If we include a way to remove those markers by picking them up, again, that won't be much of a problem. 
Or if they could be pushed, like 4" with Interact? 

I like this idea. Especially with table halves. If you get deep enough you might be able to get rid of the marker, if you spend all game shepherding it to the other side of the table. It would also sort of reward big crew sizes, since once dropped you need a bunch of ap do get them where they're going.

[Harlekin]

8 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I like this idea. Especially with table halves. If you get deep enough you might be able to get rid of the marker, if you spend all game shepherding it to the other side of the table. It would also sort of reward big crew sizes, since once dropped you need a bunch of ap do get them where they're going.

This was my idea. The more interactions you get the higher your chances for winning. 

Dual Master+3 Elites can't be anywhere. But 8 minions can be (for some time, at least). 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think deposit tokens on the enemy table half plus make them pushable is the perfect solution.

Your opponent can't just hunt and kill them all by turn 4, but it still rewards you for goiing deep.

Wish you folks were playtesters?

[Thatguy]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:10 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Wish you folks were playtesters?

Maybe next beta. 

Till then I can try to convince @touchdown that we should play Nerf Herder the next time Public Enemies comes up. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Jessie Halliday is a good example of a model that doesn't have to be perfect to be worthwhile.

Jessie offers marker removal (which can be done better by ES upgrades), scrap generation (which can be done better by ES OOKs), some shockwaving, some repositioning, etc.

Overall it is all things you can get better options by grabbing things OOK, but Jessie existing gives options to people who like to run thematic keyword crews.

I think a lot of cheap minions fit into this role.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Maybe one thing that could have been helpful is something like manipulative but for damage flips (aka, a conditional hard to wound).

Manipulative is on a lot of cheap models, but it is kind of a nonbo- you just want to use a focused hit to kill minions anyway.

Having something like 'minus flip on damage if you've not activated yet" (or even "minus flip on damage if you HAVE activated") could go a long way for weak model survivability while not just giving a flat out hard to wound for everyone. It is probably no coincidence that Ressers have tons of playable cheap models, and are the faction with hard to wound.

[Thatguy]

Looks like we got a little help for the little guys. More Cheap models means more interacts to push Strategy markers around.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Focus also got significant nerfs (caps at +2, cancelled by distracted), so little models have more survivability

[Math Mathonwy]

4 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Focus also got significant nerfs (caps at +2, cancelled by distracted), so little models have more survivability

I dunno, I feel that not that many crews were really stacking Focus over the new +2 limit anyway (Shen Long took a bit hit, admittedly) and +2 is still plenty to super efficiently kill little guys so I really doubt this change will make Hounds and whatnot any more viable.

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I dunno, I feel that not that many crews were really stacking Focus over the new +2 limit anyway (Shen Long took a bit hit, admittedly) and +2 is still plenty to super efficiently kill little guys so I really doubt this change will make Hounds and whatnot any more viable.

I think it becomes noticeable when crews want to spam small models with manipulative (like Lucius, people in Guild are stoked because a counter to that strategy is focus stacking, but can't be done anymore).

I tend to play elite crews, though, so what do I know xD

[Adran]

8 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Focus also got significant nerfs (caps at +2, cancelled by distracted), so little models have more survivability

I'm not convinced by this. Most of the time you only needed Focused+1 to kill the little guy anyway, so this cap won't matter there unless the cost to regain that focus is sufficiently high that people struggle to afford to use it to kill little models. 

If this change means the end of building a focus engine in crews, then it might help, but if the focus engine is still hired in crews, and just spreads the focus out a little more rather than trying to set a model up first turn for the rest of the game, then those little models still will die about as easily. 

[Mycellanious]

Oh yo the Focus cap is seriously going to impact Sniper models

[Thatguy]

44 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

Oh yo the Focus cap is seriously going to impact Sniper models

Haveb other people used the Sniper ability a lot? I almost never do. I usually burn an AP walking over burning the focus for range, so I won't have to burn Focus next time.

[Jinn]

7 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Haveb other people used the Sniper ability a lot? I almost never do. I usually burn an AP walking over burning the focus for range, so I won't have to burn Focus next time.

I'll use it turn 1 if there's a vulnerable target (like a totem) that I can threaten and I have a way to get out of activation focus on the sniper.