Sarah Cole Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 Just got my ass kicked with Nellie into Pandora for the second time in a row. First game was in keyword; second game I took the Guild Steward and Pale Rider to try and get some condition removal and Ruthless. Both times my opponent just parked Candy next to Phiona, sent Hinamatsu after my minions, and turned off all my triggers with Stunned. My opponent says not to go into the middle against Pandora, but I don't really see how to make that workable with Nellie. I need Phiona to be able to Take the Hit for my squishy models; Nellie needs to be close to everyone to benefit from Breaking News; you want Allison close to turn off triggers; the Steward has to be close enough to heal whoever gets Stunned AND heal Phiona if she takes too much damage. If I split my models up, my opponent just sends Hinamatsu down one flank and Teddy down the other, and any minions there die. It sucks because my opponent really likes the Woe keyword, but I just can't seem to play a game against them that feels balanced. Candy doesn't die, even with the Rider, and once Pandora, Candy, the Poltergeist, and the Sorrows have given half my crew Stunned, there's very little it seems I can do. Is Nellie that reliant on triggers and auras? Is there a way to play her into Pandora? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 I am starting with Nellie too. I think she need some models ook to shenaningans. What he usually play with Pandora? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filox Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 Pandora is one of the biggest problem for the Guild, mostly because she plays quite versus Guild typical playstyle, which is control of the middle and going for active plays. Pandora shuts down all of those things very easily, although we have some option. Pale Rider is risky, either you get one good ultimate or you opponent will never let him use his triggers. Lone Marshal is great, he can pick off Candy at big distance and those not suffer much from Stunned. Lawyer will get your models out of Candy and will help you survive Misery ping damage while drawing some juicy cards. Undercover Reporter is also okay tech piece because it let's you remove one Sorrow/Aversion from your face. Agent 46 might be a little bit of help if he can engage Candy or Pandora at a right moment melting them down to adequative size. Alan Reid may prove useful to ban some of the enemy actions. Guild Steward with condition removal and heal proved to me being very useful in this match up. The play is to kill Candy before she drain your entire resources. After that it should be easier to handle her. In Woe the only playmaker is Padnora, Candy & Carver. Removing 1-2 or them out of equations should make the game much more easier, so just focus on one of them at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 Your opponent is right in that Pandora is one of the best at controlling the middle. You aren't going to beat her there. Unfortunately gg1 likes bunched up fights in the middle. Turning off candy's disarming with Dade seems like a good option. Hinamatsu is a really tough one to deal with. Both hina and pandora's ability to generate plus flips are going to make life tough for a journalist crew. You are going to have to avoid hina the best you can. There might be game in making hina charge her own stuff with Nellie. Lean into the slow, the obeys, and keeping them off of you. Use the fact that candy and pandora can't engage to run away. This is the game for oblique play (to learn more about oblique play, find the episode on swampfiends by the same name). The more brawly scheme pools, you will definitely need to think about a different master, especially if you are expecting Pandora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 Any examples of the pools you've tried? When I played Pandora, Zipp was a nightmare for me because of how well he could avoid me and still score points. Not sure how well Nellie can emulate that, but may be worth investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 I think a good option could be use Nellie's "obey" to charge with Hinamatsu (after giving slow) against Candy or a modem who is back, so you make him to move 8" away from you, then you spend one of his pass tokens to make an attack with stat 6 and if she has focus used It too. I would use Phiona agains Candy but be sure you have tiggers for cheating. If you drop a scheme marker around Candy Phiona will ignore Manipulative. You can put enought damage and slow to make your oponent to concentrate on safe her instead of stunned you. And you can use Lawyer to bring a high cars back and obey Phiona again to attack once Candy when he don't expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaag Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, belorey said: I think a woud option could be use Nellie's "obey" to charge with Hinamatsu (after giving slow) against Candy or a modem who is back, so you make him to move 8" away from you, then you spend one of his pass tokens to make an attack with stat 6 and if she has focus used It too. I would use Phiona agains Candy but be sure you have tiggers for cheating. If you drop a scheme marker around Candy Phiona will ignore Manipulative. You can put enought damage and slow to make your oponent to concentrate on safe her instead of stunned you. And you can use Lawyer to bring a high cars back and obey Phiona again to attack once Candy when he don't expect it. pandora can do nothing with good shooting-just take lone marshal, pale rider, give them focus, they will kill everything 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 38 minutes ago, Plaag said: pandora can do nothing with good shooting-just take lone marshal, pale rider, give them focus, they will kill everything O sure, he can play with Perdita + LM + PR, but i am giving him advices with Journalist models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, belorey said: O sure, he can play with Perdita + LM + PR, but i am giving him advices with Journalist models. From my understanding of the Russian meta, many crews take pale rider + lone marshal (and phiona for that matter), regardless of crew. Taking double ruthless riders against Pandora is probably a good idea for Nellie, so I assume he was saying that. Their attacks are also relatively bad for Self Loathing (Self Loathing wants min 3 beats usually). One warning for OP - you still have to be very precise with your play of marshal & Rider. Pandora's Mood Swings can force them to activate early, and if they are anywhere remotely dangerous they will get lured/candied/dora-ed to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: From my understanding of the Russian meta, many crews take pale rider + lone marshal (and phiona for that matter), regardless of crew. Taking double ruthless riders against Pandora is probably a good idea for Nellie, so I assume he was saying that. Their attacks are also relatively bad for Self Loathing (Self Loathing wants min 3 beats usually). One warning for OP - you still have to be very precise with your play of marshal & Rider. Pandora's Mood Swings can force them to activate early, and if they are anywhere remotely dangerous they will get lured/candied/dora-ed to death. Yes i'm sure, but my advices was on the way how he can use other models he is going to pick (Nellie and Phiona) and how could help him. I think the best use for Nellie is slowing models, stunning when giving distracted and with Twisting their Ideals. So Hinamatsu or a dangerous model would become useless next activation. Then you can focus on killing Candy o Pandora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaag Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, belorey said: O sure, he can play with Perdita + LM + PR, but i am giving him advices with Journalist models. no-just lawer, stuart, lone marshal llc, pale rider llc+12ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Reaper Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 39 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said: From my understanding of the Russian meta, many crews take pale rider + lone marshal (and phiona for that matter), regardless of crew. Not just the Russian meta 😛 Double Rider is pretty much what I would take into any terrifying. Phiona is more of a tank and probably not needed here. Lone Marshal has an effective range of 21", ignoring concealment, terrifying and manipulative. With stat7 and focus, he can easily do mod/severes of 4/5 plus critical strike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, Plaag said: no-just lawer, stuart, lone marshal llc, pale rider llc+12ss Undercover Reporter + 5ss pool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaag Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, belorey said: Undercover Reporter + 5ss pool reporter is not bad-he can make lawer make interact/draw card, but sometimes better to take 2 lawers-they draw cards, obey each other/draw cards, obey rider/marshal for extra dmg, gives shielded 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 I really like the shenanigans between Nellie-Lawyer Nellie make One More Question! on a model withing 6" of Lawyer so the enemy model gain Slow, must take Interact and must discard a card from Lawyers Chatty. Then Nellie draw a card and gain Focus +1. And if he drop an scheme withing 6" of Steward you draw an extra card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 2 hours ago, belorey said: I really like the shenanigans between Nellie-Lawyer Nellie make One More Question! on a model withing 6" of Lawyer so the enemy model gain Slow, must take Interact and must discard a card from Lawyers Chatty. Then Nellie draw a card and gain Focus +1. And if he drop an scheme withing 6" of Steward you draw an extra card. Be warned, most opponents will just pick up schemes instead of dropping a marker, and I've had at least one person argue that the lawyer let's them decline to discard and so can't take the interact. I disagree with them, but it's not something that is pleasant to have to work out during your free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 34 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: I've had at least one person argue that the lawyer let's them decline to discard and so can't take the interact. I disagree with them, but it's not something that is pleasant to have to work out during your free time. No because you MUST take the interact from Nellie (it's not an option) so you MUST discard a card from Lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belorey Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 44 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: Be warned, most opponents will just pick up schemes instead of dropping a marker Thats true, Stewards card draw more casual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, belorey said: No because you MUST take the interact from Nellie (it's not an option) so you MUST discard a card from Lawyer. I completely agree. He did not. And this is someone that I usually agree with and that you are likely to run into in the vassal scene. Luckily for me it wasn't in game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkoon Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just a small warning regarding Lone marshall. Both Candy and Pandora can pick trampling hooves with self loathing and teleport into base contact with you. So be very careful of where you place it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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