Jump to content

Maniacal's battle reports & strategic analysis!


Recommended Posts

In these battle reports, I'll try to put the emphasis on my strategic thinking during the game. Comments and feedback welcome!

The first time I played Molly vs. Colette. This time I played Reva vs. Kaeris:

Big thanks to Plaag for the delightful game. This one was absolutely nail-biting, with razor-thin margins for most of the game.

Overview:

So I initially went into this game thinking that Plaag would be the aggressor, and I could sit back. This is often a good dynamic when you've got a summoner and your opponent does not.

However, McMourning isn't the best summoner around, and he had a rider while I did not. Additionally since Kaeris is so good at hit and run, I ran the risk of just getting pinged down over the course of the game. So a lot of the game you can see me dealing with the tension of figuring out when to go aggressive.

Ultimately I took Vendetta (Golem vs. Rider, a doable point if I kill the rider, possibly 2 points) and catch and release with the Bone Pile. He took Vendetta on the golem and Breakthrough.

Highlights:

  • Turn one he disrupts my summoning engine by eating a corpse with my sloppy placement. A major setback for me.
  • Turn two he further disrupts me by eating all the focus off McMourning with a trigger. Massive setback for me (it is the biggest reason McMourning didn't tear his crew apart).
    • Envy is VERY good against focused models. Very effective model!
  • Turn two my gravedigger just walks into danger and dies.
    • I'm not sure if this is better for me or for him.
    • On the one hand, I lose a relevant model. On the other hand, I get a corpse into position and he wastes an activation with his rider.
  • This puts him behind on claiming leylines, which I abuse by keeping pressure on him for the rest of the game to get the rest of his leylines. He evens it up by turn 4 I think.
  • Bone Pile is very good. Healing, two points on Catch and Release, etc...
    • He could have prevented catch and release except I flipped the Red Joker... But I could have guaranteed it with better play. So still say Bone Piles are good.
  • Grave golem is a fantastic disruption element. He had to work around it the entire game.
    • And he forgot that it can just pop out of corpse candles, which was a major advantage for me.
  • When I play against Plaag, I red joker the damage on his Mechanical Rider. Both games so far 😂

Early game:

Turns one and two, the highlights mostly cover it. He does a fantastic job of disrupting me, and also really forces me to cross the board. He plays incredibly conservatively, which is a big pain for me.

His crew has the range advantage, so just really forces me to accept that I have to cross the board. This is an especially big challenge for Dr. McMourning, but once he crossed over he went a bit nuts.

Of comical note is that I black jokered damage flips twice at the start of this game, which felt like karmic justice (last time I red jokered damage flips twice at the start of the game).

Turn 2, Reva really shines as a lodestone carrier. She charged into position and attacks through a corpse marker, having an effect on the game while still carrying the Lodestone.

Mid game:

Turn three, some shenanigans ensue. Reva continues her streak of being useful AND carrying the lodestone, putting herself into position to harass the mechanical rider (which I need to get down eventually to score with grave golem).

He wins initiative on turn 4, which is super important. It allows him to bash my bone pile to near death, which forces me to activate and bury the bone pile to preserve a chance of scoring Catch and Release. The low health on the bone pile really makes turn 5 difficult as well for the unbury. This then leaves Dr. McMourning vulnerable who dies before he can activate.

Activation/initiative management is a core skill in Malifaux, and that was a theme of our entire game. We were really working hard to try to out-activate each other.

End game:

Woooo, this was intense! Highly recommend watching this, it was back and forth the whole way through.

He won initiative, which of course was priority one for both of us. But he got it.

This meant my Bone Pile and Grave Golem were under intense pressure - both wanted to activate without him having a chance to kill them afterwards. I ended up solving this by getting the bone pile to heal up 4 with corpses and heal the grave golem. I forgot he could deny me a point just by engaging my bone pile, but I red jokered his Envy on a disengage so he couldn't move and engage my bone pile.

His Rider's bonus action nearly got him Breakthrough, but Reva used a high mask to push him off the deployment zone (while continuing to run and ending her activation in contact with a leyline). This forced him to use Kaeris to score Breakthrough instead of using Kaeris to kill one of my models to deny me a point (or score a Vendetta point).

And wee little Firestarter ran around scoring all the leylines after the Rider gave him a token, and I couldn't quite kill him to stop his scoring.

Overall, extremely close game and super intense to play!

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LeperColony said:

You brought McMourning!  I still haven't tried that list from the other thread, but I hope to someday soon.

Yeah, he is a powerhouse even without the summon!  He feels a bit awkward to get across the table safely without his crew, but I could see taking the list again. May tinker with the corpse generation, though.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Cranky Old Man said:

Good one mate. Great to read others perspectives on crews I love to play. All this is drawing me back to my first love the ressers. 

They're pretty awesome!

Next up will be Seamus vs. Sandeep on this pool:

Public enemies on Flank Deployment

  • Take Prisoner (randomly selected)
  • Hidden Martyrs (randomly selected)
  • Sabotage
  • Research Mission
  • Spread Them Out

Board TBC (open to suggestions for a Vassal board that will be balanced for both crews). EDIT: Maybe "Welcome to the Jungle" with some blocking terrain but not dominated by it?

Also open to suggestions against Sandeep - never played against him before!

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

They're pretty awesome!

Next up will be Seamus vs. Sandeep on this pool:

Public enemies on Flank Deployment

  • Take Prisoner (randomly selected)
  • Hidden Martyrs (randomly selected)
  • Sabotage
  • Research Mission
  • Spread Them Out

Board TBC (open to suggestions for a Vassal board that will be balanced for both crews). EDIT: Maybe "Welcome to the Jungle" with some blocking terrain but not dominated by it?

Also open to suggestions against Sandeep - never played against him before!

Lots of carddraw for him, he can cast spells from other academics, and spread your crew. Poison gamin bombs will do 3 dmg +1 poison or 4 dmg +2 poison if banasuva is near him. No duels required. Thats what strong about Sandeep. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2020 at 9:18 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

They're pretty awesome!

Next up will be Seamus vs. Sandeep on this pool:

Public enemies on Flank Deployment

  • Take Prisoner (randomly selected)
  • Hidden Martyrs (randomly selected)
  • Sabotage
  • Research Mission
  • Spread Them Out

Board TBC (open to suggestions for a Vassal board that will be balanced for both crews). EDIT: Maybe "Welcome to the Jungle" with some blocking terrain but not dominated by it?

Also open to suggestions against Sandeep - never played against him before!

Sandeep's Crew:

A good way to remember how Sandeep works is this: Mantra and Pseudo-obeys are for Elementals, everything else is Academics

  • Keep in mind Banasuva and Kandara are BOTH Academics and Elementals
  • Every Academic has a Mantra. 6" range and only applies to the model with the Mantra and Elementals. NOT all Academics
    • Sandeep's lets you deal 1 damage within 2"
    • Banasuva's lets you resolve your Demise
    • Kandara's lets you draw a card
    • SVG's lets you push 2"
    • Ox Mage's lets you heal 2
    • Kudra is a bad model
  • Sandeep and Banasuva each have a pseudo-obey for only Elementals. Banasuva's is his Bonus action
  • Sandeep gives Shouting Orders(Academic) within 6". NOT Elementals
  • Sandeep also can draw LoS and range from Academics (NOT Elementals) within 6"

Key Summons

Note that if he wants to summon wind, he can't summon two gamin

Fire can be replaced by Ice, but the Fire Gamin is easily the better of the 2.

Metal can be summoned instead of Poison, but Poison is better in practically every way except mobility if there are enough scrap markers for Ride The Rails and Magnetism.

Ice or Metal may come out to drop markers for Research Mission

  • 8 - Poison Gamin
  • 9 - Wind Gamin
  • 11 - Two Fire Gamin
  • 12 - Poison Gamin + Fire Gamin
  • 13 - Two Poison Gamin

Tips and Observations:

He will 99.99% be taking Research Mission, Sandeep is the best crew in the game for that scheme, and there's very little you can do about it.

Sabotage or Spread Them Out likely as second scheme, although Hidden Martyrs on Banasuva is possible too. Kill Banasuva anyway. If you see SS Miners or Wind Gamin in the starting crew, the former 2 are more likely.

99% Expect a Metal Golem in the crew, it's a no-brainer choice with Sandeep and drops scrap every turn for Research Mission. It can also be pseudo-obeyed to Off The Rails multiple times in a Turn.

99% Expect a Silent One or even 2 for healing. They will try to be in cover and only give up 1 Public Enemies point, but they have to die if you're ever going to pressure Sandeep or Kandara properly

Always pay attention to how many SS Sandeep has. No SS = no prevention for Kandara, and no suits for Sandeep. Pressure Sandeep and Kandara for this reason.

Banasuva is target #1. He is incredibly crucial to "the machine" Sandeep runs and making it 10x easier to score Research Mission, but is an enforcer with Df 5, 7 Wds, and can be one-shot by Seamus with a severe. If Banasuva lives, you likely lose through attrition alone.

If he's smart, his first activation of Turn 1 will be Banasuva walk, concentrate + drop an Ice Pillar, bonus action to command Metal Golem to Vent Steam. Good luck.

Kandara is target#2 (unless you think you can kill Sandeep), as she is what gives Sandeep an absurd amount of card draw. However, with Serene Countenance + Concealment, or by just using stones for defense, you might not be able to take her down with a Seamus shot or Lure her. Don't overcommit if you can accomplish more by targeting the other models in his crew.

The crew has an absurd amount of AoE damage. Blasts from Banasuva and fire gamin, pulses from Poison Gamin.

Not sure if he'll do this, but it's my typical game plan: Summon 2 Fire Gamin T1. They summon in with Df/Wp 4 and 4 Wds, but when they activate (within 6" of Kandara and Banasuva) they concentrate to draw a card and drop a Pyre Marker, gaining 1 burning, then bonus action to remove the pyre marker for 2 burning. This effectively gives them 7 HP, meaning Sandeep summoned 14 HP worth of models T1 which can later become a Fire Golem. Note they can only ever reduce damage by 2 for a single action, so 6 damage will always kill them. *

*In order for this to work, he'll have to summon them behind cover, and either activate after Seamus, or command them immediately to concetrate and drop a pyre marker for 1 burning so they can't get killed by a weak hand cannon shot.

Fire Gamin punch way above their weight class, but can't sustain their damage, since it comes from burning. Their gun is 1B/2B/3B plus a burning for damaged models, so if hitting the target and 1 additional model, they're effectively dealing 4 total damage at the end of the turn, or 6 after next turn. Remember that preventing the damage also prevents the burning, for what it's worth. Every turn they can stack up to 4 more effective HP for themselves (plus heal for 1) and keep drawing cards as long as the correct Mantra are in range. Their melee damage is pretty bad against H2W models but they do gain 1 burning with each hit, further building Health.

Poison Gamin pull work too. 2/3/4 attack with a built in poison, concentrating near Banasuva pulses 1 damage + 1 poison, Catalyst like McM, 5 HP Arm+1. They'll be looking to tie you up and slowly whittle you down.

Wind Gamin are the Schemers. 6 HP Arm+1, Mv 6, Flight, built in leap.

SVG are extremely hard to take down, but only if they carry a Focus for Know The Warrior to use DF6 + cheating to draw unlimited cards. Seduction these guys. Also, H2W makes their damage pretty poor.

Ox Mage is an optional choice in Sandeep, is the only healing in the keyword, and unlikely to be taken against Seamus

Consider Valedictorian to AoE remove corpse and scrap markers to prevent Research Mission, but honestly you're delaying the inevitable since there will be pyres, ice pillar(s), schemes, and scrap on your half of the table if Sandeep dedicates to it no matter what.

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

Sandeep's Crew:

A good way to remember how Sandeep works is this: Mantra and Pseudo-obeys are for Elementals, everything else is Academics

  • Keep in mind Banasuva and Kandara are BOTH Academics and Elementals
  • Every Academic has a Mantra. 6" range and only applies to the model with the Mantra and Elementals. NOT all Academics
    • Sandeep's lets you deal 1 damage within 2"
    • Banasuva's lets you resolve your Demise
    • Kandara's lets you draw a card
    • SVG's lets you push 2"
    • Ox Mage's lets you heal 2
    • Kudra is a bad model
  • Sandeep and Banasuva each have a pseudo-obey for only Elementals. Banasuva's is his Bonus action
  • Sandeep gives Shouting Orders(Academic) within 6". NOT Elementals
  • Sandeep also can draw LoS and range from Academics (NOT Elementals) within 6"

Key Summons

Note that if he wants to summon wind, he can't summon two gamin

Fire can be replaced by Ice, but the Fire Gamin is easily the better of the 2.

Metal can be summoned instead of Poison, but Poison is better in practically every way except mobility if there are enough scrap markers for Ride The Rails and Magnetism.

Ice or Metal may come out to drop markers for Research Mission

  • 8 - Poison Gamin
  • 9 - Wind Gamin
  • 11 - Two Fire Gamin
  • 12 - Poison Gamin + Fire Gamin
  • 13 - Two Poison Gamin

Tips and Observations:

He will 99.99% be taking Research Mission, Sandeep is the best crew in the game for that scheme, and there's very little you can do about it.

Sabotage or Spread Them Out likely as second scheme, although Hidden Martyrs on Banasuva is possible too. Kill Banasuva anyway.

99% Expect a Metal Golem in the crew, it's a no-brainer choice with Sandeep and drops scrap every turn for Research Mission. It can also be pseudo-obeyed to Off The Rails multiple times in a Turn.

99% Expect a Silent One or even 2 for healing. They will try to be in cover and only give up 1 Public Enemies point, but they have to die if you're ever going to pressure Sandeep or Kandara properly

Always pay attention to how many SS Sandeep has. No SS = no prevention for Kandara, and no suits for Sandeep. Pressure Sandeep and Kandara for this reason.

Banasuva is target #1. He is incredibly crucial to "the machine" Sandeep runs and making it 10x easier to score Research Mission, but is an enforcer with Df 5, 7 Wds, and can be one-shot by Seamus with a severe. If he's smart, he'll either keep Banasuva in cover or activate Banasuva ASAP and concentrate to drop an Ice Pillar for cover. You can still kill him with 2 shots but he'll be Df 6 and have no problem cheating cards to live. If Banasuva lives, you likely lose.

Kandara is target#2 (unless you think you can kill Sandeep), as she is what gives Sandeep an absurd amount of card draw. However, with Serene Countenance + Concealment, or by just using stones for defense, you might not be able to take her down with a Seamus shot or Lure her. Don't overcommit if you can accomplish more by targeting the other models in his crew.

The crew has an absurd amount of AoE damage. Blasts from Banasuva and fire gamin, pulses from Poison Gamin.

Not sure if he'll do this, but it's my game plan: Summon 2 Fire Gamin T1. They summon in with Df/Wp 4 and 4 Wds, but when they activate (within 6" of Kandara and Banasuva) they concentrate to draw a card and drop a Pyre Marker, gaining 1 burning, then bonus action to remove the pyre marker for 2 burning. This effectively gives them 7 HP, meaning Sandeep summoned 14 HP worth of models T1 which can later become a Fire Golem. Note they can only ever reduce damage by 2 for a single action, so 6 damage will always kill them.

Fire Gamin punch way above their weight class, but can't sustain their damage, since it comes from burning. Their gun is 1B/2B/3B plus a burning for damaged models, so if hitting the target and 1 additional model, they're effectively dealing 4 total damage at the end of the turn, or 6 after next turn. Remember that preventing the damage also prevents the burning, for what it's worth. Every turn they can stack up to 4 more effective HP for themselves (plus heal for 1) and keep drawing cards as long as the correct Mantra are in range. Their melee damage is pretty bad against H2W models but they do gain 1 burning with each hit, further building Health.

Poison Gamin pull work too. 2/3/4 attack with a built in poison, concentrating near Banasuva pulses 1 damage + 1 poison, Catalyst like McM, 5 HP Arm+1. They'll be looking to tie you up and slowly whittle you down.

Wind Gamin are the Schemers. 6 HP Arm+1, Mv 6, Flight, built in leap.

SVG are extremely hard to take down, but only if they carry a Focus for Know The Warrior to use DF6 + cheating to draw unlimited cards. Seduction these guys. Also, H2W makes their damage pretty poor.

Ox Mage is an optional choice in Sandeep, is the only healing in the keyword, and unlikely to be taken against Seamus

Consider Valedictorian to AoE remove corpse and scrap markers to prevent Research Mission, but honestly you're delaying the inevitable since there will be pyres, ice pillar(s), schemes, and scrap on your half of the table if Sandeep dedicates to it no matter what.

 

 

 

u have bad plan for the game))

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Plaag said:

u have bad plan for the game))

Товарищ, объясните

I assume the issue is that Seamus can one-shot the Fire Gamin. I edited it to make it a bit more clear what I meant

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

Товарищ, объясните

all that u told abt banasuva doesnt work against seamus and summon fire gamin is a bad idea too-just an easy points for strategy for him, swg are bad models, 2 silent ones is a bad choice

Link to post
Share on other sites

List update!

My list:

  • Seamus w/ The Whisper
  • Copycat Killer
  • Dead Rider
  • Carrion Emissary
  • Bete Noire
  • Bone Pile w/ Grave Spirit's Touch
  • Gravedigger

His list:

  • Sandeep Desai
  • Banasuva w/ soulstone Cache
  • Kandara
  • Silent one w/ magical training
  • The Captain
  • Coryphee
  • Coryphee 2

So it looks like his plan involved making sure Seamus can't easily one shot anything, and the Captain really messes with some of my strongest attacks (Carrion Emissary's attacks become pretty laughable near the captain).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Plaag said:

all that u told abt banasuva doesnt work against seamus and summon fire gamin is a bad idea too-just an easy points for strategy for him, swg are bad models, 

Why doesn't it work against Seamus? He suffers from Concealment + Cover more than your average shooting model. If Banasuva has Concealment + Cover, Seamus needs 2 focused or SS'd shots to kill him. Maybe around T2-3, it becomes much harder to ensure cover against a teleporting Seamus, but T1 he has no way of ignoring it.

I admit I forgot about the SS Cache upgrade, and Captain - those are both good calls that I missed, but I don't play Arcanists.

Fire Gamin give only 1 point for strategy, and if he's killing them, he's not killing Banasuva, Kandara, Sandeep, or Metal Golem. Sandeep might give up VP Turn 2+3 (which Seamus will be able to score anyway) but he'll win the attrition war in the end. You can't pull them close to the centerline with dead rider without dropping the Pyre on your table half. They're a nuisance.

 

SVG are not bad models. The first time I looked at them, I thought they were garbage, but you have to understand how they work. They're not stellar, and they're certainly bad against a H2W crew with seduction (or most ressers honestly), but they're totally serviceable in most cases.

2" pushes keep your elementals mobile while drawing cards, can push out of combat, and help to manage the common 6-8" range on Elementals' gun actions. 8 Wds with H2K ensures 3 attacks minimum to take down, and every crew will have a Silent One to heal above H2K. Able to concentrate as a bonus action, push for free, and shoot twice. Ricochet trigger is (literally) broken since "another" can currently mean the target as per FAQ. Damage track is effectively min 2 even against Armor +2, straight dmg flips have a 43% chance to deal 5+ damage (compared to 25% to severe on a normal flip), positive damage flips have a 68% chance to deal 5+ damage (compared to 43% to severe on a normal positive flip) and you can attack nearby low-Df models or even friendly models to deal damage to hard-to-hit or low HP enemies. Their melee is good too, 2/4/5 with a trigger to ignore armor, and the quick shot trigger is free card draw at worst.

Df/Wp/Stat 6 with Know The Warrior is the best feature though - as long as they have a focus, they can cheat EVERY opposed flip and redraw a card. Every flip. Failing an attack? Cheat low to redraw, or high to hit and still redraw. Winning the duel? Your opponent has to cheat first, after which you can cheat low to get a replacement card, or cheat >5 to get a straight or positive flip and still redraw. Kandara is drawing tons of cards anyway, so there's absolutely no reason to be stingy. Just cheat everything except that one card you plan to summon with.

 

That being said, I'd appreciate if you'd actually write up more than just several run-on opinions per post. If you think something is bad, state why. If you say something doesn't work, state why. What you're doing isn't helping anybody.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Biletsky said:

Why doesn't it work against Seamus? He suffers from Concealment + Cover more than your average shooting model. If Banasuva has Concealment + Cover, Seamus needs 2 focused shots to kill him. Maybe around T2-3, it becomes much harder to ensure cover against a teleporting Seamus, but T1 he has no way of ignoring it.

I admit I forgot about the SS Cache upgrade, and Captain - those are both good calls that I missed, but I don't play Arcanists.

Fire Gamin give only 1 point for strategy, and if he's killing them, he's not killing Banasuva, Kandara, Sandeep, or Metal Golem. Sandeep might give up VP Turn 2+3 (which Seamus will be able to score anyway) but he'll win the attrition war in the end. You can't pull them close to the centerline with dead rider without dropping the Pyre on your table half. They're a nuisance.

 

SVG are not bad models. The first time I looked at them, I thought they were garbage, but you have to understand how they work. They're not stellar, and they're certainly bad against a H2W crew with seduction (or most ressers honestly), but they're totally serviceable in most cases.

2" pushes keep your elementals mobile while drawing cards, can push out of combat, and help to manage the common 6-8" range on Elementals' gun actions. 8 Wds with H2K ensures 3 attacks minimum to take down, and every crew will have a Silent One to heal above H2K. Able to concentrate as a bonus action, push for free, and shoot twice. Ricochet trigger is (literally) broken since "another" can currently mean the target as per FAQ. Damage track is effectively min 2 even against Armor +2, straight dmg flips have a 43% chance to deal 5+ damage (compared to 25% to severe on a normal flip), positive damage flips have a 68% chance to deal 5+ damage (compared to 43% to severe on a normal positive flip) and you can attack nearby low-Df models or even friendly models to deal damage to hard-to-hit or low HP enemies. Their melee is good too, 2/4/5 with a trigger to ignore armor, and the quick shot trigger is free card draw at worst.

Df/Wp/Stat 6 with Know The Warrior is the best feature though - as long as they have a focus, they can cheat EVERY opposed flip and redraw a card. Every flip. Failing an attack? Cheat low to redraw, or high to hit and still redraw. Winning the duel? Your opponent has to cheat first, after which you can cheat low to get a replacement card, or cheat >5 to get a straight or positive flip and still redraw. Kandara is drawing tons of cards anyway, so there's absolutely no reason to be stingy. Just cheat everything except that one card you plan to summon with.

 

That being said, I'd appreciate if you'd actually write up more than just several run-on opinions per post. If you think something is bad, state why. If you say something doesn't work, state why. What you're doing isn't helping anybody.

another means not target)) and seamus can easy jump to ice pillar, remove it and take a shot, bad plan; also seamus shoots only with focuses and concealment just makes him better; swg is garbage, they dont cost 8 ss; and it helps-if u are listening to me)

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

another means not target)) and seamus can easy jump to ice pillar, remove it and take a shot, bad plan; also seamus shoots only with focuses and concealment just makes him better; swg is garbage, they dont cost 8 ss; and it helps-if u are listening to me)

The FAQ broke 'another' to mean 'not the model on which another is written.'

So ricochet can hit the same target (stupid, I know).

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Plaag said:

another means not target)) and seamus can easy jump to ice pillar, remove it and take a shot, bad plan; also seamus shoots only with focuses and concealment just makes him better; swg is garbage, they dont cost 8 ss; and it helps-if u are listening to me)

image.thumb.png.5572776c7ea19bd8b91562704d7c1ab3.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Plaag said:

another means not target)) and seamus can easy jump to ice pillar, remove it and take a shot, bad plan; also seamus shoots only with focuses and concealment just makes him better; swg is garbage, they dont cost 8 ss; and it helps-if u are listening to me)

Ricochet can hit the same model according to the FAQ and even if it couldn't, SVG are decent models, they provide a lot of card cycling and they're tough with Df/Wp 6, HtK, Shielded +1 (+2 with Magical Training and Counterspell), Stat 6 in both attacks, posibility of ignoring armor and printed Ricochet in a 10" shooting attack. They even bring utility with their mantra and can get a model out of engagement without  flipping a card.

I don't know what else could you want in a 8ss minion, but calling them gargabe is a nonsense. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

Ricochet can hit the same model according to the FAQ and even if it couldn't, SVG are decent models, they provide a lot of card cycling and they're tough with Df/Wp 6, HtK, Shielded +1 (+2 with Magical Training and Counterspell), Stat 6 in both attacks, posibility of ignoring armor and printed Ricochet in a 10" shooting attack. They even bring utility with their mantra and can get a model out of engagement without  flipping a card.

I don't know what else could you want in a 8ss minion, but calling them gargabe is a nonsense. 

i can see that "except ...blablabla" tells another position))

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Plaag said:

i can see that "except ...blablabla" tells another position))

The model with Ricochet is always a legal subject for the action. 

With that FAQ, the triggers My Loyal Servant and Ricochet can affect the targeted model. I can't recall if there is another one with the same wording. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

The model with Ricochet is always a legal subject for the action. 

With that FAQ, the triggers My Loyal Servant and Ricochet can affect the targeted model. I can't recall if there is another one with the same wording. 

I think the idea is that the original model (the one shooting the gun) is not always a legal target for the action, so 'another' isn't excluding the original model firing the gun. If it isn't excluding the shooter, then it must be excluding the original target.

Or so the argument would go.

EDIT: To clarify, the original shooter is not always a legal target because it is not always within 3".

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think the idea is that the original model (the one shooting the gun) is not always a legal target for the action, so 'another' isn't excluding the original model firing the gun. If it isn't excluding the shooter, then it must be excluding the original target.

Or so the argument would go.

EDIT: To clarify, the original shooter is not always a legal target because it is not always within 3".

it is some kind of stupidness)) ricochet in the same target, but it doesnt make swg better, they are still useless

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm willing to admit that IF Ricochet doesn't allow you to hit the same model twice, then SVG are average at best. I'd still be hesitant to call them bad, they're a choice to add mobility to your crew in the same way you might take a sub-par model for condition removal, or marker removal, or healing.


The current consensus seems to be that you can, and I'm just rolling with it here (again, I don't play Arcanists).

It's strange to me that Wyrd, who are usually amazing at wording consistency, are leaving enough of a grey area here to even be questionable. They even almost solved this problem for themselves but then totally stumbled with the My Loyal Servant trigger - "Another model (other than this model)"

According to the FAQ and thus RaI, "Another model" should mean "other than this model," so why would this text need to remind the reader by restating "(other than this model)" unless normally "Another model" was supposed to mean "other than the target."

But if that were the intention, "Another model other than the target" would be the correct way of stating it, no parenthesis required and the base case remains "another model" = this model.

They really need to overhaul "another" officially and errata the cards but I doubt they want to because all the cards are printed and for sale.

  • "Another model" = not the target
  • "A model other than this model" = not this model

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information