Looking for advice on buying order.

[Taxidermied]

Having grabbed a pile of discounted 2e boxes and the faction cards I could do with some pointers as what to purchase next. 

Ressers are more than likely going to be my stable faction alongside Outcasts.  I've currently got both the Nicodem (yes I know he's DMH) and Seamus crew boxes, and have Gravediggers arriving soon.  Ideally I want to stay in keyword or add versatile hires to begin with before I move into the other keywords.

Residents of Rottenburg is a given as I'm going to need the mindless zombies from it.

I was looking into adding the Dead Rider as a big centrepiece beater, but from what I've read the Carrion Emissary is a very strong addition to a Redchapel crew.  Should I skip the rider and go emissary first, and will it be effective in both crews?  The rider seemed more of a straight up killer and harder to put down aswell as able to make use of any excess corpse tokens Nico and friends had left lying around.  That said his 'The dead hate the living' trigger could maybe go off once possibly twice a game tops and requires quite a bit of setup with the counter placement.  I have the feeling 'Soulfire'  would be used more often to greater effect, or he'd just horde his Fate Tokens for damage reduction.

Archie will wait until I begin collecting Molly's crew, as it'll be either hers or Kirai's after I'm done with Nico and Seamus.

So any advice on what to prioritise buying would be appretiated, as I'd ideally like to gradually introduce and try things out instead of just grabbing everything at once and having it sit unused.

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

To some degree, I'd recommend just using what you have and playing some small games! You'll get a feel for the crew, and I personally suggest always trying core box models (even if Redchapel ones are poor).

From there you'll have a much better idea of what to buy!

Dead Rider vs. Emissary... I bought Dead Rider and it is wondrous with Molly, but in some ways I wish I had gotten Emissary. It has much better synergy with way more crews (especially Seamus and I assume to a degree Nicodem).

Archie has been nerfed and I doubt he is worth taking OOK (out of keyword) anymore, so maybe don't bother until you buy Molly.

Personally I'd put Eternal Servitude as a priority for any budget gamer. The models there are good OOK value for a wide variety of crews. I've taken every one of them OOK to solid effect. They're not fully 'optimal' for every crew, but are a fantastic way to have solid options for any crew.

[Nikshe]

Buy Emissary with mindless zombies for Seamus. It's a blessed union.

For now Seamus is more effective in pair with another Master. I can recommend you buy a McMourning's starter for our dear doctor and a nurse. It's 23 soulstones and pretty good pair of models: the nurse will dose the doctor with a Poison for regeneration and the doctor will stab everything he can catch. Add Emissary for blasts and Seamus' reposition and two rotten belles for luring and Wp-hitting. It's 43 soulstones, you can buy an upgrade (I prefer The Wisper on Seamus - his gun's attack should not get a Black Joker).

[Graf]

If you buy the Emissary or the Dead Rider first doesn't matter that much, both are fantastic models. At least with Seamus I would prioritise Emissary though (personally did the same with von Schtook). 

[Taxidermied]

Looks like it’s the emissary first then.

McMourning will wait until he gets his 3e box as looking at his card he’s getting a creepy new sculpt along with Sebastian and his Chihuahua.  As the Nurses and Rafkin have been bundled together in a set I’m guessing that McMorning will be boxed with three Flesh Constructs which will pull double duty along Nico.

As mindless zombies can be counted as corpse markers for action or abilities does that mean I can use the Grave Golem to ‘Hurl Corpse’ them at people?  If so I think the Golem just made my to buy list for the sheer hilarity of it rather than any actual effectiveness 😂

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 hours ago, Taxidermied said:

 

As mindless zombies can be counted as corpse markers for action or abilities does that mean I can use the Grave Golem to ‘Hurl Corpse’ them at people?  If so I think the Golem just made my to buy list for the sheer hilarity of it rather than any actual effectiveness 😂

Yup, Archie and Grave Golem can both do this! AND it is a cost, meaning that it happens whether or not the attack succeeds!

Very strong way to tie up a model/make sure it is engaged. Reva can do it with corpse candles.

That said, most people consider grave golem weak (I consider it strong but situational).

They're super fun to sculpt your own as well!

[Taxidermied]

With the Golem I can see it putting people in the position where they don’t then want to kill it as the following turn it can use the zombie to unbury and potentially spend all of its activations punching the poor sod next to it.  Even if they kill the zombie they’ll have to burn actions to either remove the corpse token or run the hell away from it.

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, Taxidermied said:

With the Golem I can see it putting people in the position where they don’t then want to kill it as the following turn it can use the zombie to unbury and potentially spend all of its activations punching the poor sod next to it.  Even if they kill the zombie they’ll have to burn actions to either remove the corpse token or run the hell away from it.

I think people don't want to kill golem regardless. The real trick is setting it up so you can kill it yourself efficiently, and teleport it across the table xD

I've never set it up, though. But I do wonder... What about:

• Shieldbearer smack twice (2 damage)
• Shieldbearer smack twice (4 damage)
• Any min 3 beater charge, smack it (7 damage)
• Reva charge and smack it once, twice if black jokered previous damage (10 damage).

Boom! Grave golem telerports to your furthest corpse marker turn one. Probably don't even need the full four shieldbearer AP. Just need enough that the golem is far enough ahead models can charge it (and not waste any movement up the board hitting it).

[Morgan Vening]

On 4/27/2020 at 12:42 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think people don't want to kill golem regardless. The real trick is setting it up so you can kill it yourself efficiently, and teleport it across the table xD

I've never set it up, though. But I do wonder... What about:

• Shieldbearer smack twice (2 damage)
• Shieldbearer smack twice (4 damage)
• Any min 3 beater charge, smack it (7 damage)
• Reva charge and smack it once, twice if black jokered previous damage (10 damage).

Boom! Grave golem telerports to your furthest corpse marker turn one. Probably don't even need the full four shieldbearer AP. Just need enough that the golem is far enough ahead models can charge it (and not waste any movement up the board hitting it).

Am I missing something with Reva? That's a lot of AP being spent there. Sure, you can hope to Charge it, but that means cluttering together, and you need to put effort into moving the Golem forward without it activating.

When you could just have Anna Lovelace "Remote Detonate" it, for a 4+ (and a card draw).

Heck, Asura and a 4+ Tomes or Crow and a SS, and you can place the Grave Golem on any board edge.

Makes the first point of Breakthrough ridiculously easy (place the marker first turn, don't spend it until scoring in the second), and if your opponent doesn't devote anything to him, you might even be able to get the second point. Asura with some clear sightlines can help, on time delay (Zombies having Mindless means having to think a turn ahead).

Also as well as helping with Spread Them Out. Being able to put one of the three in the middle of the backline makes getting the other two 10" apart a lot less difficult.

Granted, we're already at 29-30SS in expenditure (28 +1 to summon the Zombie + 1 for Anna OOK if not playing Transmortis). But still...

Heck, that might be a good core for a Seamus crew (as he can use spare Mindless/Corpses for AP).

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Am I missing something with Reva? That's a lot of AP being spent there. Sure, you can hope to Charge it, but that means cluttering together, and you need to put effort into moving the Golem forward without it activating.

Shieldbearers' bonus action is to pulse out focus to everyone, which means you're often bunching them near stuff they want to buff anyway. So sometimes I bunch up my crew (depending on circumstances), although note that I've never actually done this in practice.

8 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

When you could just have Anna Lovelace "Remote Detonate" it, for a 4+ (and a card draw).

Remote detonator kills the target (so healing doesn't stop it, you still die).

[Taxidermied]

Remote Detonator kills the target.  So then Golems demise ability is resolved as it states ‘After this model is killed, it heals 4 and is buried.’   If Remote Detonator stated that it prevented demise abilities or said removed from game instead of killed then bye bye Golem.  As it states killed then it will trigger the Golems demise ability.

[Adran]

5 minutes ago, Taxidermied said:

Remote Detonator kills the target.  So then Golems demise ability is resolved as it states ‘After this model is killed, it heals 4 and is buried.’   If Remote Detonator stated that it prevented demise abilities or said removed from game instead of killed then bye bye Golem.  As it states killed then it will trigger the Golems demise ability.

Yes the demise happens.

What most people miss is that the Demise doesn't automatically stop you being killed.

The only way to stop a model that is killed from being killed is to heal it up from 0 wounds. (electronic rules page 25).

Because remote detonator doesn't put the model on 0 wounds, healing the model doesn't stop it from being killed.

[Taxidermied]

I get it now.  Still learning some of the finer points of the rules and missed that.  My bad.

[Adran]

Don't worry, lots of people miss things like that. (It also is very rarely an issue in the game).

Back on topic, my personal suggestion is to play what you have at the moment. You might find you want  a certain type of model, which might help you decide what to pick next.  For example when you play Seamus games you might find you are struggling to get blocking terrain in useful places (or your opponents have learn to control the table) for secret passage. The Emmisary will help out. Or you might find that you get his movement all over the place fine, but you need a big melee threat to give the opponent something different to go for, in which case the Dead rider might start being more useful.

Neither is wrong, but your style of play might well dictate one being more useful to you than another.

 

[dannydb]

also isnt remote detonation undead only?

 

i think the grave golem is just a construct

[Adran]

That is also a good point as to why you couldn't just do that...

[Morgan Vening]

Grave Golem isn't Undead? OK, I get being wrong about how Demise works. But it goes to show that even the most basic things shouldn't be overlooked.

Side note, how is it not Undead?

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

1 minute ago, Morgan Vening said:

Side note, how is it not Undead?

he's a heap of grave soil, not a reanimated human/animal.