Starting Seamus and purchase tipps

[Graf]

Hey crew,

completely new to Malifaux. After a discussion in another subforum here, I've decided to beginn with Ressers. The reboxing and re-releasing is quite the issue atm for new players, because it doesn't make sense to buy M2E boxes in many cases. Same for me, I want to play Yan Lo but looking at the scheduled boxes, I'll have to wait for him. Therefore I've decided to start with Seamus. While he partially suffer from the same issue, at least the important stuff is announced. I've read through multiple threads about him, but still need some recommendation on how to plan my purchases.

 

My plan is to start, of course, with his own core box, which will give me long term use of himself, CCK and a single Belle. As soon as they come out, I'll buy High Society and Eternal Servitude. This will give me Doxies, Dandies, Bête, Yin and Manos. But those boxes aren't schedulded yet, I can only assume maybe early 2020?

So... might it be sensible to purchase the Undying box for now? I would sell off the TT and a double Manos can be used for some pure painting project or so. It would allow me to increase SS or give options to try Graveyard Golem and Mourners. They don't seem to see regular play with him but at least occasionally? Or is this so rare, it would be better to wait for repackages, if I should ever want them?

I also wonder which other models, found in available boxes atm, I could buy instead (or additionally). I've read about Nurses, but are they good for an early purchase? Archie isn't available atm and Yin/Manos are already alternatives for him. Also I wonder if Seamus could make use of a Gravedigger, he utilizes corpses himself and should Bête, Dandy and/or GG also be in the list, is this enough demand to include such a support model? Also, are there any other Versatile/OOK models I should highly consider? Only restriction for me is their availability without buying a whole bunch of other models I won't need.

 

A load of questions with many different iterations, depending on which box I buy when, etc. But I hope, you can still help me formulate an efficient plan.

[marke83]

There are several threads about this already, but I think just wait for the nice bundles;Society/Servitude. Carrion Emissary (Fate), Mindless Zombies, and some other versatiles to taste will get you very far. Seamus only needs (imo) the totem and some beaters. The keyword models are not that important. Some are okay/good, but only in a niche way. Yin/Manos/Archie to taste or to help scheming.  

Personally I'd be happy to play Seamus with just Seamus, CCK, Emissary, Dead Rider, Archie, Gravedigger/Nurse.. even Asura or Mortimer. Seamus + Versatiles > Seamus + Keyword.

[Inryhk]

I'm kinda new as well but I did my research and played some games using Seamus. So take my opinion with grain of salt but I will still give it since I relate to you on that front . There are many way more experienced and knowledgable people here though. Some Condition crews are kinda popular right now(from what I heard and in my meta) so I would assume Nurses are very good purchase when starting. Also they synergize with Seamus since they have Seduction. Many people advised me to get Rogue Necromancy and Dead Rider as an alternative to not having Archie or Manos.

I also had a blast using Carrion Emissary, but it is kind of a pricy model SS wise so I am not sure about its versitility for starting out. He is very fun to play with though and a cool miniature. My first games were with core box + Doxies +  Emissary and I still had a blast. From first games it was clear to me that it is best to prioritize some Scheme runners since Seamus can't do everything alone, a decent beater cause core box is unreliable and Seamus can't do everything alone , and Nurses for Conditions cause you need Seamus to do everything alone :P.

Personally I wouldn't pay too much attention to re-releases. Cards get updated either way and I know it depends on a person, but I think some newer models look blander / less unique or thematic than their 2E counterparts. I know some people that still have 1E models for that reason (although quality of sculpts there really have changed :P).

What I did after Seamus core was purchasing Doxies and then McMourning Box. I got nurses from there, Flesh construct for some options and Canine Remains for scheme running.  Heard that some crews are very tough for Seamus so this McMourning can be a nice alternative when I get deeper into the game.

[Thedeadclaw]

I'm a big fan of Asura with Seamus. I haven't played much yet because I haven't painted my Miss Feasence and that drives me crazy, but my list generally has Sybelle, a doxy, here, the emissary and Asura. I've been considering giving up on Sybelle for Archie but time will tell there. I like the rest of the list though.

[Maniacal_cackle]

For many new players I recommend getting just a core box and playing 5-10 games. This will give you a feel for the crew and your purchasing decisions will be way more informed.

If that's not an option... Dead rider is universally praised, you won't regret buying it at all, even if it doesn't fully work out with Seamus. Manos is a popular cross-keyword pick, and personally I quite like the grave golem as long as you have a grave digger to back it up. So undying box may be a decent, but imperfect, option.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another good thing about buying versatile models is it keeps you very flexible for swapping to other masters if you want.

[Graf]

3 hours ago, marke83 said:

Personally I'd be happy to play Seamus with just Seamus, CCK, Emissary, Dead Rider, Archie, Gravedigger/Nurse.. even Asura or Mortimer. Seamus + Versatiles > Seamus + Keyword.

That's a pretty concise list, thank you! I haven't looked at Dead Rider yet, seems like an independent model, with the option for some jojo shenanigans.

3 hours ago, Inryhk said:

Some Condition crews are kinda popular right now(from what I heard and in my meta) so I would assume Nurses are very good purchase when starting. Also they synergize with Seamus since they have Seduction. Many people advised me to get Rogue Necromancy and Dead Rider as an alternative to not having Archie or Manos.

I also had a blast using Carrion Emissary, but it is kind of a pricy model SS wise so I am not sure about its versitility for starting out. He is very fun to play with though and a cool miniature. My first games were with core box + Doxies +  Emissary and I still had a blast. From first games it was clear to me that it is best to prioritize some Scheme runners since Seamus can't do everything alone, a decent beater cause core box is unreliable and Seamus can't do everything alone , and Nurses for Conditions cause you need Seamus to do everything alone :P.

Personally I wouldn't pay too much attention to re-releases. Cards get updated either way and I know it depends on a person, but I think some newer models look blander / less unique or thematic than their 2E counterparts. I know some people that still have 1E models for that reason (although quality of sculpts there really have changed :P).

What I did after Seamus core was purchasing Doxies and then McMourning Box. I got nurses from there, Flesh construct for some options and Canine Remains for scheme running.  Heard that some crews are very tough for Seamus so this McMourning can be a nice alternative when I get deeper into the game.

Rogue Necromancy doesn't look to interesting to me, Dead Rider more so. I'm just not sure if I want to buy him, because the beater role will be filled by Yin/Manos later. I'll think about it.

Good to know Nurses are useful even if the list isn't fully fleshed out already. Also good you mentioned McMourning's box, unlikely I will go for that, as I don't really aim for the other models as of now, but hey - the more you know...

The reason I look out for the repackaging is to avoid buying unnecessary doubles, the resculpt aspect isn't very important to me. Some models look better, some worse, so no big deal overall in that regard. If possible at all, I'll mod the miniatures until I like all of them .

2 hours ago, Thedeadclaw said:

my list generally has Sybelle, a doxy, here, the emissary and Asura. I've been considering giving up on Sybelle for Archie but time will tell there. I like the rest of the list though.

I kinda forgot about the Emissary. He was mentioned multiple times and I think one zombie summoner wouldn't be wrong to start with. Just not sure which one. Asura makes them better, Mortimer can also drop corpses for everyone else instead of summoning and Emissary seems like he has beating, summoning and support capabilities all at once but is the most expensive one. Right now I think it will be either Mortimer or the Emissary.

€: Ah, forgot Mortimer only comes in the Open Graves box atm. Emissary it is.

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Dead rider is universally praised, you won't regret buying it at all, even if it doesn't fully work out with Seamus. Manos is a popular cross-keyword pick, and personally I quite like the grave golem as long as you have a grave digger to back it up. So undying box may be a decent, but imperfect, option.

So if I buy the Undying box, I should also buy Gravediggers, gotcha'. I guessed that but wasn't sure if it's true. It's helpful to have confirmation!

Don't worry, I'll start small and expand step by step, not buy everything at once. Many stores here don't sell Malifaux and those who do, don't have a huge stock. So I have to order most boxes, which might take a bit, so it's better to have a rough idea what I want early on.

[Inryhk]

Not a fan of Rogue Necromancy either, model in particular. But I can't deny that it has Terryfying, Hard to Wound AND Hard to Kill. It has Perverse Metabolism which heals it on Poisons and it can poison itself on discards. If you have a Nurse, with trigger she can Heal and Poison that model at the same time. And it has a ranged blast attack that applies not only Poison, but Distracted too, which Seamus can use for additional damage. There is the added bonus of applying multiple different conditions which I'm guessing can make Distracted Trigger on Seamus more reliable.

 

Mortimer sounds kinda interesting though. I do have an old Nicodem box so I kinda am tempted to try out Mortimer as henchman with Grave Golem. Wonder if this pair is big enough to take the attention away from Seamus... And both those models have pushes which on occasion can trigger Why Hello There

[Fetid Strumpet]

I’ve been playing Seamus as my main since 1e, so I have fairly informed opinions. That said they are opinions so don’t take them as fact, and my advice comes from a competitive angle so if you don’t care about playing a mechanically tight list it may be of limited utility.

Don’t buy the Seamus core box if you can avoid it. If you can find him and the CCK on their own it’s a better buy than the core. Sybelle and the Belles are awful models for cost and in the environment of the current schemes and strats. Outside of very niche situations you actively make you lost worse hiring any of them.

Primary purchases after Seamus and the CCK would be Carrion Emissary, Nurse, Archie, and Toshiro, in that order.

After that I’d pick up the High Society Box. That box has the entirety of the okish Red Chapel models outside of Seamus and the CCK. You’ll generally include at least 1 model from it in about 60% of your games.

[Graf]

51 minutes ago, Inryhk said:

Not a fan of Rogue Necromancy either, model in particular. But I can't deny that it has Terryfying, Hard to Wound AND Hard to Kill. It has Perverse Metabolism which heals it on Poisons and it can poison itself on discards. If you have a Nurse, with trigger she can Heal and Poison that model at the same time. And it has a ranged blast attack that applies not only Poison, but Distracted too, which Seamus can use for additional damage. There is the added bonus of applying multiple different conditions which I'm guessing can make Distracted Trigger on Seamus more reliable.

 

Mortimer sounds kinda interesting though. I do have an old Nicodem box so I kinda am tempted to try out Mortimer as henchman with Grave Golem. Wonder if this pair is big enough to take the attention away from Seamus... And both those models have pushes which on occasion can trigger Why Hello There

That's why I said "not interesting" instead of "not powerful". Especially the Pouncing Strike looks handy to force your opponent to scatter a bit, but from what I read people do that anyway. As a newbie I still need to gain experience to reasonably assess how powerful a model is. My first theorycraft impression simply was "it hurts stuff" and that doesn't tingle me much, I like to have more pronounced toolkit capabilities. The combination with Nurse and the Distraction trigger are good to be aware of though. In case I come around and give it a try or have to play against it.

 

I'm not sure how much, if any, corpse creation Seamus really needs. Reading through the other threads it doesn't appear to be necessary. That's why I looked for other models who utilize corpses, just in case Seamus desn't need the additional markers. Bête seems like she uses the corpses only in the right circumstances. GG can do many different stuff with it. He's obviously not be as punchy as other models in his price bracket, but as already said, I like toolkits and at least he's also a tank (assuming no Demise hate is present). But I would prefer something that doesn't need another model to make use of the corpse creation ability. Gravedigger is a supporter and in one thread someone argued really well how helpful Focused for Saemus is. Mortimer is a bit more expensive but can switch between corpse creation and summoning, so it looks like he'll always have stuff to do. Dandies might be another synergie for corpse creation. But that's all therycraft from a noob, so better ask players who actually know what they are talking about 😉.

No matter which one I'll get first (which is this thread's point), in the long run I'm sure to test all of them. If I also sparked an idea in you, or others, to try something out new... Then I'm even happier about having this discussion here!

[Graf]

25 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I’ve been playing Seamus as my main since 1e, so I have fairly informed opinions. That said they are opinions so don’t take them as fact, and my advice comes from a competitive angle so if you don’t care about playing a mechanically tight list it may be of limited utility.

Don’t buy the Seamus core box if you can avoid it. If you can find him and the CCK on their own it’s a better buy than the core. Sybelle and the Belles are awful models for cost and in the environment of the current schemes and strats. Outside of very niche situations you actively make you lost worse hiring any of them.

Primary purchases after Seamus and the CCK would be Carrion Emissary, Nurse, Archie, and Toshiro, in that order.

After that I’d pick up the High Society Box. That box has the entirety of the okish Red Chapel models outside of Seamus and the CCK. You’ll generally include at least 1 model from it in about 60% of your games.

Aaaah, I think I've read some of your older posts...  I looked a bit for 2nd hand Seamus, didn't find any models which weren't painted TERRIBLY, so I simply settled for buying new ones. My FLGS has the older box on sale, so it won't really hurt my wallet. I want to try to play at least one Belle, for jojo shenanigans, but that's the most I hope to play. Interesting that you order the purchases in that way, with High Society as the last one. I think I can relate. Due to waiting for releases that is actually quite good. Well... apart from Archie, guess I'll have to proxy him for a while.

You've mentioned Toshiro in another thread already, but never said more about him and he didn't show up in the proposed lists. Since I want to buy the Eternal Servitude box anyway after release: I can see he's a badass, is there anything particular about him that works well with Seamus' crew? Why should one use him instead of say... Yin or Archie?

[Fetid Strumpet]

I’m finding Toshiro works well in some specific Seamus lists. His upsides are:

He’s undead (that actually matters because one of the only pretty good models that actually synergizes with Scarlet Seduction is Sloth and you want to be able to make your high cost models fast as often as you want to slow the opponent)

He has Terror. Terror is only really effective if you have a lot of it as a pressure on the opponent’s hand.

He’s a summoner in a keyword that doesn’t have any.

He’s far better at buffing minions than Sybelle is.

His bonus action gives something that is critical in a Seamus crew. Focus. Giving Seamus focus is like giving him fast that lasts across turns. To leverage his gun you almost always want to fire it focused if you can, and being able to give it out from other models is very important. Foul Mouthed motivation works really well since you aren’t suit juggling like you have to with the Nurse.

He doesn’t go in every list, but he is something to heavily consider, especially in cursed idols. I wouldn’t generally bring him in Reckoning or Turf war.

[marke83]

Kinda funny Seamus "needs" focus. If things were a bit different, I'd prioritize focus giving lower. Redchapel Killer is a very good ability, but comes up so rarely due to the nature of effective Seamus crews. Focus is always useful on top of RCK too, but perhaps not as vital.

[Graf]

9 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

His bonus action gives something that is critical in a Seamus crew. Focus. Giving Seamus focus is like giving him fast that lasts across turns. To leverage his gun you almost always want to fire it focused if you can, and being able to give it out from other models is very important. Foul Mouthed motivation works really well since you aren’t suit juggling like you have to with the Nurse.

He doesn’t go in every list, but he is something to heavily consider, especially in cursed idols. I wouldn’t generally bring him in Reckoning or Turf war.

Thank you very much for the explanation! Including as many terrifying models as possible sounds very sensible, in addition to all the other obvious stuff he can do. For Focused I looked more at other models until now, but since Foul-Mouthed heals, shields and gives Focused, I can see why that's a usefull ability to buff Seamus.

 

To bring everything together, the plan now looks like this:

1. Seamus box

2. Carrion Emissary

3. Mindless Zombies

4. Nurses (maybe McMourning Box instead)

5. Eternal Servitude

6. High Society

7. Archie (earlier if he becomes available again)

That covers quite some investment already and will take some time to get and paint. After that I'll look out for Yan Lo's choices. If he still isn't on the horizon by then, I can look out for all the other options mentioned here. Azura, Mortimer, Dead Rider and Gravediggers especially. Undying and Rogue Necromancy if I feel like trying something unusual.

[longfanz]

2 hours ago, Graf said:

Thank you very much for the explanation! Including as many terrifying models as possible sounds very sensible, in addition to all the other obvious stuff he can do. For Focused I looked more at other models until now, but since Foul-Mouthed heals, shields and gives Focused, I can see why that's a usefull ability to buff Seamus.

 

To bring everything together, the plan now looks like this:

1. Seamus box

2. Carrion Emissary

3. Mindless Zombies

4. Nurses (maybe McMourning Box instead)

5. Eternal Servitude

6. High Society

7. Archie (earlier if he becomes available again)

That covers quite some investment already and will take some time to get and paint. After that I'll look out for Yan Lo's choices. If he still isn't on the horizon by then, I can look out for all the other options mentioned here. Azura, Mortimer, Dead Rider and Gravediggers especially. Undying and Rogue Necromancy if I feel like trying something unusual.

Asura comes with two Zombies in her box so maybe you can buy her (cheaper than Mindless) and put them on bases. Don't know if two are enough though. Oh, and McMourning is getting a resculpt so check his new model before, maybe you like it better.

[Graf]

3 minutes ago, longfanz said:

Asura comes with two Zombies in her box so maybe you can buy her (cheaper than Mindless) and put them on bases. Don't know if two are enough though.

Yeah, thought about that too. I assume I'll need more than two Zombies in the long run but also Azura herself. Guess I'll start with whatever is available.

[marke83]

Imo your buying list looks solid. Remember you CAN always play with Belles&Sybelle while you wait for releases . Sybelle still does reach 2" min damage 5 with a stone and a ram, which can be totally awesome and useful.. That doesn't mean she is good, but that ability alone on a 10 stone model is fair.  She also can sustain some damage against casual crews.

You'll probably notice as you keep adding the fan-favorites (and reduce redchapel models) that games will get easier. I was personally enjoying my rc games as well, but I did notice the "lacklusterness".

[newsun]

4 hours ago, marke83 said:

Kinda funny Seamus "needs" focus. If things were a bit different, I'd prioritize focus giving lower. Redchapel Killer is a very good ability, but comes up so rarely due to the nature of effective Seamus crews. Focus is always useful on top of RCK too, but perhaps not as vital.

Everyone pretty much loves focus, Seamus just wants to use his 2ap for positioning or maybe scheming then the other two to unload with focus shots as much as possible. Hitting straight damage with his track is juicy.

[Fetid Strumpet]

It’s more that focus gives more flexibility in actions. Very rarely, unless the corpses are laid out correctly, am I going to take multiple shots in a round. Having the focus given means Seamus isn’t using his action to get it, which means you have an extra action to do something else useful. I don’t even always spend my focus every turn once I have it.

Sometimes I won’t use it for turns if I keep getting bad cards show up via The Whisper. Sometimes I’ll have some combination of models give Seamus 2 Focus, and the Seamus will concentrate on turn 1 and I’ll get to run the rest of the game with most of the focus I’ll want and not need to worry about it. It’s just once you have it many more options are possible with the actions you have since you aren’t losing one.

 

[Sybarite]

Shouldnt belles be pretty good at Hold Up? 

[Graf]

5 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

It’s more that focus gives more flexibility in actions. Very rarely, unless the corpses are laid out correctly, am I going to take multiple shots in a round. Having the focus given means Seamus isn’t using his action to get it, which means you have an extra action to do something else useful.

It's all about the specific situation on the board, right? 😉 Interesting to read that it isn't an uncommon occurence for some.

1 hour ago, Sybarite said:

Shouldnt belles be pretty good at Hold Up? 

Don't know if that's a lucky guess but... Dandies and Doxies seem roughly equal for that and when Toshiro is onboard, you can use Ashigaru instead. So... enough alternatives present?