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Hard counter models


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2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Sonnia seems to brutally counter Hoffman. Not sure if there are other armoured bubble crews but Hoffman is the posterboy for the style.

Hoffman seems to brutally counter Sonnia. Not sure if there are other crews whose survival depends on not getting slammed in the face with 100 tons of steel, but Sonnia is the postergirl for the style.

Seriously, she isn't great at dealing with fast moving, hard hitting melee models, especially if she doesn't bring LLC.

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24 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Hoffman seems to brutally counter Sonnia. Not sure if there are other crews whose survival depends on not getting slammed in the face with 100 tons of steel, but Sonnia is the postergirl for the style.

Seriously, she isn't great at dealing with fast moving, hard hitting melee models, especially if she doesn't bring LLC.

I'm pretty sure multiple keywords aren't fans of metal to the face. Sonnia puts out more ap damage by herself than most of the stuff I've seen so far. My opponent picked the Armour ignore upgrade on his lone marshal and that dude did about half the damage in his entire LJ crew. Sonnia already has the suit for the trigger. 

I guess that upgrade is a pretty anti-Hoffman pick she just meshes so well with it. 

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1 hour ago, Myyrä said:

Hoffman seems to brutally counter Sonnia. Not sure if there are other crews whose survival depends on not getting slammed in the face with 100 tons of steel, but Sonnia is the postergirl for the style.

Seriously, she isn't great at dealing with fast moving, hard hitting melee models, especially if she doesn't bring LLC.

Though it may well be debatable whether Criid is a hard counter to Hoffman, her crew are rather good at keeping melee monsters at bay.  The Purifying Flame and his follow Witchling’s tend to lead the charge setting the table on fire.  So models end up wasting AP to kill these and what do they get for that effort more burning, this also reduces the range of :rangedactions.

Keeping in mind you need cards to ditch to declare triggers against Criid and you will most likely be running in with a good stack of burning, unless you are going to use even more AP to remove it.  This will tend to result in the burning model ending up being a Witchling.

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1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

I'm pretty sure multiple keywords aren't fans of metal to the face. Sonnia puts out more ap damage by herself than most of the stuff I've seen so far. My opponent picked the Armour ignore upgrade on his lone marshal and that dude did about half the damage in his entire LJ crew. Sonnia already has the suit for the trigger. 

I guess that upgrade is a pretty anti-Hoffman pick she just meshes so well with it. 

You can't counter an entire Hoffman crew with a single model, because that model will just get killed. Obviously that doesn't mean that you shouldn't bring models that are good against armor, but you shouldn't expect too much if you are only bringing one.

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12 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

The topic is hard counter models so we're going to be discussing singular models. If Sonnia ignoring armour doesn't fit the bill of a hard counter to an armored crew that wants to be near each other I don't know what fits that description... 🤔

I guess we can then wrap up this topic by saying that Guild has no hard counters against anything at all. Jury against crews that like to get buried a lot comes close, but even that isn't a hard counter.

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26 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I guess we can then wrap up this topic by saying that Guild has no hard counters against anything at all. Jury against crews that like to get buried a lot comes close, but even that isn't a hard counter.

Tbh I dont think guild need hard counters their crews function very efficiently that you can as long as you pick a good crew deal with it

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23 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I guess we can then wrap up this topic by saying that Guild has no hard counters against anything at all. Jury against crews that like to get buried a lot comes close, but even that isn't a hard counter.

I don't know I'd say Jury was a pretty good hard counter to Dreamer, as a summoner who uses buried models she can be brutal. Also almost entirely stops Dreamer from summoning Daydreams unless he can unbury them straight away, as she will kill them just by activating. Almost as bad against Void wretches for Tara, although I don't think there is quite the same demand for void wretches as the extreme lucid dreams list wants to have daydreams.

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32 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

I guess we can then wrap up this topic by saying that Guild has no hard counters against anything at all. Jury against crews that like to get buried a lot comes close, but even that isn't a hard counter.

I think both the Jury and Sonnia would qualify as hard counters to certain mechanics in the context of Malifaux. I think you're setting a ridiculously high bar but our highjacking of this topic is getting a bit silly so I'll concede to whatever the hell you want. ;)

If my opponent declares the Dreamer I would strongly consider adding the Jury out of keyword.

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Nellie is a hard-counter to Deliver a Message in the Scheme Pool, which may be worth thinking about in that it rules out 10% of the potential points available to them. Definitely high in my thoughts on Corrupt Idols or Plant Explosives if that's in the pool. And the Undercover Reporter is a pretty solid tech piece against schemes such as Breakthrough and Power Ritual, and is generally useful.

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