Monk chi ability

[NoahScape]

When can you use your chi to give you a plus 2. Directly after the flip before cheating you have to decide, or can you wait until after the cheating step. 

 

The card says after flipping. I thought I saw somewhere it was discussed but can’t find it now. 

[Jesy Blue]

After flipping, before cheating.

[Furio]

3 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

After flipping, before cheating.

what is your reasoning behind this answer? we're busy talking about it in a messenger group and there are two schools of thought.

[Tapdancer]

44 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

After flipping, before cheating.

Yes after flipping but before cheating.  Never seen anyone play it otherwise.

[LeperColony]

Flip is 2(d)(II).  

Cheat is 2(d)(III).

While technically cheating is "after" flipping, by that logic "next turn" or "thursday" would be as well.

The text of Harness Chi identifies a specific window in the game's timing sequence, not an open-ended starting point.

[LeperColony]

A more ambiguous question, to my mind, is whether the +2 is tied to the flipped card or if it is applied even if you cheat.

The text says it adds "+2 to its duel total."  You don't total the duel until 2(d)(IV).  And on on page 10 of the digital book, under section D, it says you add all modifiers at this stage.

When I first read the ability, I assumed it increased the flipped card's value by 2, which was then lost if you cheated.  But now I believe that under the rules, you can cheat the flip and still add 2 to the result.  Though you still make the decision as to whether or not to spend the chi before cheating.

[Adran]

'After flipping " as a timing point is before cheating.  

The +2 applies to the duel total, so it will apply both pre cheating and post cheating. 

[Erik1978]

Quote

While technically cheating is "after" flipping, by that logic "next turn" or "thursday" would be as well.

Quoted for truth.  

I hear people say it's too good and they want the Chi to be spent BEFORE flipping. I agree SHenlong is strong but perhaps it's mostly because of Fermented River Style?

[Cursed25]

18 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

Quoted for truth.  

I hear people say it's too good and they want the Chi to be spent BEFORE flipping. I agree SHenlong is strong but perhaps it's mostly because of Fermented River Style?

the true strength of Shenlong for me is the wandering river style with no TN! the ability to move your model even on a black joker or the enemy models on a test a super good! add to this that you also move scheme/scrap/corpse and you have the best scheme denial ability in the game! You have your 3 markers for harness! with my student I say nope and move 1/2 of them away so you can't score!  Your model is in place for outflank, not anymore! etc...

 

Fermented river style is good to help him move a lot and gives Shenlong an impressive threat range of 12'' with just one charge which is really strong just by himself but add to it the drunken kung fu and this become a really strong attack but opponent can easily counter it! keep your 1 and 2 for Shenlong! If he cheats for a high card to hit you with chi you, most of the time can't beat it! So just cheat very low and now he has a  on dmg!  it's strong but not insurmontable!

 

Also Shenlong lives and dies by his chi! attack him a few times and after that he crumbles! He is a very strong master who can do a lot of things but the only things I think is broken on him is the wandering river style because you can shut down a lot of schemes and also help you a lot with move shenanigans and scheme markers schenanigans!

 

The chi mechanic is good, that's true having the equivalent of stat 7-8 on most models is hard to counter! There's 2 solution in my eyes if this come up to be too strong :

1: limit the amount of chi a model can get or have on him a the same time. because now it's very easy to get absurd amount of chi on the first 2 turns.

or

2: limit the usefulness of chi. Even just a +1 to stat would be good! or change the wording so the +2 only applies to the flipped card not the card he cheats?

Those are some ideas but for now I don't think chi is that broken, just a very strong mechanics! Honestly I prefer facing chi than flicker tokens! the on dmg hurts so much! Also I don't play monks but I've faced them a few times!  

[SerZaka]

16 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

 

I hear people say it's too good and they want the Chi to be spent BEFORE flipping

I don't think it will change anything. You are going to use the Chi when you want to win a duel . So if you really want to try to win it you are going to use it anyway . 

Using it after flipping the card just prevents to "waste" it if you flip a figure or a joker.

[Erik1978]

It makes a huge difference. I've played about 10 games with Shenlong. Those duels where you lose the duel by 1-2 it's a  fantastic thing to use a Chi, forcing your opponent to cheat first.

[Erik1978]

Quote

the true strength of Shenlong for me is the wandering river style with no TN! the ability to move your model even on a black joker or the enemy models on a test a super good!

Holy crap, you're right. They have removed "enemy only" from that action!?! DAAAAAAAAAMN!! 😮

[whodares]

58 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

It makes a huge difference. I've played about 10 games with Shenlong. Those duels where you lose the duel by 1-2 it's a  fantastic thing to use a Chi, forcing your opponent to cheat first.

Does it actually work like that? I thought Chi was added at Step D of the process, while Cheat Fate is Step C.

 

I mean, it makes sense, but right now the Duel Total is calculated AFTER cheating Fate and Harness Chi only takes place when calculating the Duel Total.

 

 

EDIT: Nevermind, for some reason I thought the Monk's Ability said Final Duel Total. Disregard the above.