Give Me Two "Blow It To Hell" Mary's

[Jesy Blue]

So a Pulse, as the rule says, affects a model as long as they are in object that created the pulse’s LoS.
The most well-known Action that removes terrain is Mad Dog Barrett’s “Blow It To Hell” which creates a 2” Shockwave (which is a Pulse) destroying Destructible Terrain Markers.
A 50mm marker is just under 2” across, so two Destructible Terrain Markers touching each other could potentially be affected by the single Pulse.
 
However, what if the terrain is Blocking?  Given a perfectly centered straight line between “Blow It To Hell” Marker, Blocking Terrain Marker #1, and Blocking Terrain Marker #2, all within 2”, would the second Terrain Marker be affected as it is not in Line of Sight of the initial Pulse of the “Blow It To Hell” Marker?
 
Discuss!

[Kadeton]

4 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Where does it say that models are only checked the one time for pulses? Why is it different for resolving pulses than resolving (insert timing here) effects where you start the timing outside of some effect but before completely resolving that timing are then within the effect.

I've played it that way because that's how it worked in M2E. But it's based on the following notion:

The pulse "instantaneously" affects everything within its area "as long as they are within the generating object's LoS". Ergo, if an object isn't in the generator's LoS at the instant the pulse happens, it isn't affected.

Then, because multiple models have been simultaneously affected by the pulse, you resolve those effects according to the simultaneous effect timing. But all the simultaneous effects from the pulse have already been determined before you start resolving them.

What's an example of an effect where you "start the timing outside of some effect but before completely resolving that timing are then within the effect"? I'm having trouble getting my head around that sentence.

[CD1248]

In theory a Blocking marker could block LOS as you describe, and as pulses need LOS for their effects it would save the second marker.

I say in theory because in practice it's real hard for a single object to block LOS to another object of the same size. They have to be lined up absolutely perfectly.

[Jesy Blue]

Blow It To Hell Marker is 30mm, other terrain markers can up to 50mm.... little easier to block when the first one completly eclipses your view.

[Adran]

Surely you resolve it against Object one, and then its destroyed so when you resolve it against object 2, LOS isn't an issue anyway...

But equal size objects can block line of sight (see the example on page 18)

[solkan]

Two points concerning the positioning:

1.  During second edition, Wyrd trained all of long term players on the notion that tangent line counts when dealing with base crossing.  So if you line up three 30mm bases perfectly, the middle base blocks line of sight between the outer two.  Like Adran points out, this edition they point out this state in one of the examples (although it is in the "Terrain With Height" section, so it can be somewhat easy to miss).

2.  The Rule of Intent exists, so you can achieve that sort of perfect arrangement by stipulation.

Concerning the "I'm going to use one destructible to block line of sight to this other destructible", like Adran says the Pulses rules say:

Quote

All models inside the Pulse’s area or overlapping the object generating the Pulse, excluding the object that created the Pulse, are affected by the Pulse as long as they are in the generating object’s LoS.

That's generally taken that if you gain (or lose) line of sight to a model during the resolution of the effect, you have to continue with the updated eligibility pool.

If you kill a model and that lets you see another model in range of the pulse, you resolve the pulse against the new model as well.  Same goes for destructible terrain getting destructed.

[Paddywhack]

10 minutes ago, solkan said:

If you kill a model and that lets you see another model in range of the pulse, you resolve the pulse against the new model as well.  Same goes for destructible terrain getting destructed.

I have never seen or played it that way. When the Pulse goes off you see who it affected - who is in range and LOS, then each model is affected. You've already gone past the part about determining who is affected and the Pulse is over at that point - you've moved on to resolving effects and are past the point of 'who is affected'. Shouldn't matter if new targets then pop up, they were not affected when the Pulse went off - it's not an on-going process in my mind like an Aura might be. I don't know why you'd get to then add additional targets after you have determined range and LOS from the Pulse. 

[Gnomezilla]

13 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I have never seen or played it that way. When the Pulse goes off you see who it affected - who is in range and LOS, then each model is affected. You've already gone past the part about determining who is affected and the Pulse is over at that point - you've moved on to resolving effects and are past the point of 'who is affected'. Shouldn't matter if new targets then pop up, they were not affected when the Pulse went off - it's not an on-going process in my mind like an Aura might be. I don't know why you'd get to then add additional targets after you have determined range and LOS from the Pulse. 

Active player determines order of targeting first if there is a conflict. Usually (for us) the affected player takes that role instead just because it’s easier*, but when it comes to terrain there is no excuse for the affected player to have a say in timing (unfortunately for the terrain-maker).

 

*or abbreviate even worse and flip a card for each of the models all at once, and then determine who passed/will get a cheat card to pass—having a ‘conflict’ part of the table has helped to make that easier though

[Paddywhack]

5 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Active player determines order of targeting first if there is a conflict. Usually (for us) the affected player takes that role instead just because it’s easier*, but when it comes to terrain there is no excuse for the affected player to have a say in timing (unfortunately for the terrain-maker).

*or abbreviate even worse and flip a card for each of the models all at once, and then determine who passed/will get a cheat card to pass—having a ‘conflict’ part of the table has helped to make that easier though

Sure, but order is determined 'after' you have seen who is affected, otherwise you can't know that there are multiple models affected at the same time. I'm saying once you have determined who is affected, you can't go back after resolving some of those effects to see if new models are affected. You've already gone on past the 'see who is affected' part and are resolving the affects of the action. 

So for the OP, I'd say yes, it is theoretically possible to block LOS to a marker from a pulse if it's lined up exactly so or using the Rule of Intent. When the Pulse goes off you determine who/what is affected, in this case the first marker as the second marker is out of LOS, and then resolve the affects. The second marker was not affected as it was not in LOS when the Pulse happened. 

That's how I've always interpreted it and seen it played anyway. 

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Sure, but order is determined 'after' you have seen who is affected, otherwise you can't know that there are multiple models affected at the same time. I'm saying once you have determined who is affected, you can't go back after resolving some of those effects to see if new models are affected. You've already gone on past the 'see who is affected' part and are resolving the affects of the action. 

So for the OP, I'd say yes, it is theoretically possible to block LOS to a marker from a pulse if it's lined up exactly so or using the Rule of Intent. When the Pulse goes off you determine who/what is affected, in this case the first marker as the second marker is out of LOS, and then resolve the affects. The second marker was not affected as it was not in LOS when the Pulse happened. 

That's how I've always interpreted it and seen it played anyway. 

Where does it say that models are only checked the one time for pulses? Why is it different for resolving pulses than resolving (insert timing here) effects where you start the timing outside of some effect but before completely resolving that timing are then within the effect.

[santaclaws01]

8 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I've played it that way because that's how it worked in M2E. But it's based on the following notion:

The pulse "instantaneously" affects everything within its area "as long as they are within the generating object's LoS". Ergo, if an object isn't in the generator's LoS at the instant the pulse happens, it isn't affected.

Then, because multiple models have been simultaneously affected by the pulse, you resolve those effects according to the simultaneous effect timing. But all the simultaneous effects from the pulse have already been determined before you start resolving them.

What's an example of an effect where you "start the timing outside of some effect but before completely resolving that timing are then within the effect"? I'm having trouble getting my head around that sentence.

An easy thing(and probably the only timing point that this could feasibly come up in) is start of activation effects. One start of activation effect moves you. After the move you're now within 1" of an Ice Pillar Marker and Raspy is the enemy leader. Since you're still in the resolving start of activation effects step, you now resolve the effect of being within 1" of an Ice Pillar marker due to Raspy's ability.