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2 hours ago, newsun said:

This is terrible. This discussion is about summoners who are bringing extra activations and the ability to shrug off most assassination runs with innate abilities and 10t gets to use their less activations to maybe heal back up? It does illuminate further some issues the faction has though.

Now this is not saying it's all doom and gloom as Asami certainly has game with summons who charge the turn they arrive and her mobility is stellar and this can be done without resources, there is just some planning around flickering out which needs to be taken into account.

 

My point was to explain I don't see 10T Masters so weak in the resilience department.

Btw, you're right, Flicker is not that strong and the Emissary Conflux is crap (regarding the 0 Action). Probably then, our summoning engines are pretty meh.

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Has anyone thought about using Monks of Low River to remove Slow from summons?  It's vs Def and swings on a 7 so even a relent on a black joker would work.

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29 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Has anyone thought about using Monks of Low River to remove Slow from summons?  It's vs Def and swings on a 7 so even a relent on a black joker would work.

Relenting always works.

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Page 33, Main Rule Book:

Before any cards are flipped, the Defending model may choose to relent.  When this happens, the Attacker flips as normal, and the Defender flips no cards, it instead assumes that the Defender tied the Attacker's final duel total, without any suits.

Well lookey here, I've been doing this wrong all along.  Good to know!

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3 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

Has anyone thought about using Monks of Low River to remove Slow from summons?  It's vs Def and swings on a 7 so even a relent on a black joker would work.

With a bit of positioning, I've made more than once 2 Yokais lose Slow and Charge for 1 Ap. Gorgeous.

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2 hours ago, ElPuto said:

With a bit of positioning, I've made more than once 2 Yokais lose Slow and Charge for 1 Ap. Gorgeous.

 

6 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

Has anyone thought about using Monks of Low River to remove Slow from summons?  It's vs Def and swings on a 7 so even a relent on a black joker would work.

I'm a fan of the Freikorps Specialist. A massive bubble of slow and paralyse removal that requires no flips on a model that has synergy with some ONI and the Emissary, as well as marker removal.

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Against aggressive summoners that actually move out of their deployment zone, i've had a lot of success using Yin to put them on -ve to their cast actions. They usually have to focus and summon or spend more stones to get the straight flip; either way its draining a further resource.

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15 hours ago, Amayasu said:

I'm a fan of the Freikorps Specialist. A massive bubble of slow and paralyse removal that requires no flips on a model that has synergy with some ONI and the Emissary, as well as marker removal.

And that's a 10" bubble, not outrunning that.  I like!

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3 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

And that's a 10" bubble, not outrunning that.  I like!

Yup. Have him throw out a ton of burning, have the Emissary lower their Df as a result, and watch your ++ monkeys tear stuff apart.

He got cheaper in the errata too. Still not cheap, but, Asami can afford a few support models given how easy her summoning has become.

 

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2 hours ago, Amayasu said:

Yup. Have home throw out a ton of burning, have the Emissary lower their Df as a result, and watch your ++ monkeys tear stuff apart.

He got cheaper in the errata too. Still not cheap, but, Asami can afford a few support models given how easy her summoning has become.

 

How is that easy? Mr Tannen involved?

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38 minutes ago, ElPuto said:

How is that easy? Mr Tannen involved?

Now that you can use Her Flicker for Masks, the pool of cards that summon has increased hugely. Getting models on the table isn't hard now. You just need to balance and plan her Flicker.

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Asami only needs a mask. No setup as gremlins, no corpse/scrap, just a card and a mask. For the monkeys, she only needs a 9 of mask, and with her last upgrades, she got an access to color provider :)

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Yes Asami summons much easier now with borrowed time. It's a huge win. If only she had a good way to get the resources to bring in models other than monkeys who still only last two turns most of the time.

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1 hour ago, newsun said:

Yes Asami summons much easier now with borrowed time. It's a huge win. If only she had a good way to get the resources to bring in models other than monkeys who still only last two turns most of the time.

Obsidian Oni? Obsidian Statue? Trigger on Yokai and Ohaguro?

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1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Obsidian Oni? Obsidian Statue? Trigger on Yokai and Ohaguro?

.... and don't forget Amanjaku, the Orochi Conflux, and hire Anna Lovelace (she summons Mindless Zombies which count as Corpes Markers)

However, the word your missing from all of these, except for Amanjaku, is "good"!  Anna and Ohaguro are at least Henchmen and can spend Soul Stones for the suits they need, but it still requires them to be in combat with an enemy.  Orochi Conflux takes half the model's wounds plus 1 (literally making it easier to not hang around longer) to add a single Flicker, the Obsidian Statue requires it to be damaged by an enemy attack when it is designed to not get hit, the Obsidian Oni requires a combat trigger on a not built in suit on a Minion (so as useful as an Oiran), and the same for the Yokai, but at least he has 2 triggers (one for Corpses Markers & one for his own Flicker).

Yes, there are a number of them, but only 1 is good.  It's so good they limit it to once per turn.  The rest if them... pretty sad.

 

Oh, forgot Fate of Mortals upgrade and Asami's own Consume Essence ability on her Borrowed Time upgrade.  Fate of Mortals is also good (I debate if that combined with Feign Weakness are worth it); Consume Essence is alright, but she can't be killing everything.  So 2 out of 9 options are good, ~20%.

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3 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

 

.... and don't forget Amanjaku, the Orochi Conflux, and hire Anna Lovelace (she summons Mindless Zombies which count as Corpes Markers)

However, the word your missing from all of these, except for Amanjaku, is "good"!  Anna and Ohaguro are at least Henchmen and can spend Soul Stones for the suits they need, but it still requires them to be in combat with an enemy.  Orochi Conflux takes half the model's wounds plus 1 (literally making it easier to not hang around longer) to add a single Flicker, the Obsidian Statue requires it to be damaged by an enemy attack when it is designed to not get hit, the Obsidian Oni requires a combat trigger on a not built in suit on a Minion (so as useful as an Oiran), and the same for the Yokai, but at least he has 2 triggers (one for Corpses Markers & one for his own Flicker).

Yes, there are a number of them, but only 1 is good.  It's so good they limit it to once per turn.  The rest if them... pretty sad.

 

Oh, forgot Fate of Mortals upgrade and Asami's own Consume Essence ability on her Borrowed Time upgrade.  Fate of Mortals is also good (I debate if that combined with Feign Weakness are worth it); Consume Essence is alright, but she can't be killing everything.  So 2 out of 9 options are good, ~20%.

Just a few things to correct. It is built in on the Obsidian Oni, what part about the Statue screams designed not to get hit to you, Yokai can get a :+fate to their attack on a charge which makes it more reliable, a TCW can eat the damage from Orochi Conflux, and I was just talking about ways to drop markers, as you said to bring them in to last longer than a turn, not make them last longer.

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Obsidian Oni's Scorched Remains trigger is inbuilt on my cards. It is the scheme marker one that needs a suit off the cards.

Back to the original topic - Ramos is literally the best TT counter in my opinion. Summons and armour, the two things we most struggle with.

For a brief but glorious window, we had Misaki as the solution, finally a sort of blaster, that could penetrate armour. Hurrah. 

But now that is done, Rammos remains our biggest hurdle.

Personally, I like Misaki, Mei Feng and Asami into summoners, but as recent discussions in this sub-forum have shown, people's milage varies considerably.

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