Hot take: Is 2018 the "Year of Thunder"?

[JoeCL]

Is 2018 going to be a great year for 10 thunders players? I'm just getting into the faction and I think it's possible it's just the right time to do so. Things I'm considering:

Gaining grounds 18 curbing the power of activation control.

Movement and AP efficiency are going to be huge in the new strats.

2 straight years of great new models coming out for the faction

At least 2 masters that made huge "tier jumps" with new upgrades in Yan Lo and Misaki

I don't think the Jan 2018 nerf focus will be on Thunders. Could be wrong about this.

Are we going to see a bitcoin-esque surge in power level? Or are some other factions improving at about the same rate? I'm coming from arcanists and I think they might be getting a little left behind. Especially if there is a pending Sandeep nerf.

Of course, the pending errata is a huge wild card.

That's my hot take.

[Ludvig]

If you get the Sonnia treatment where everyrhing making you successful is nerfed it could be a year of grief. 

I think it will be a lot better than 2017 for Thunders at least.

[I'm a Teapot!]

I think fast and scheme crews will be huge in 2018, which favors thunders, gremlins and neverborn and the new wave 5 ressers. 

Asami is pretty amazing for gg2018 in my opinion and Misaki fills some gaps that thunders needed. 

[Kogan Style]

Lynch will continue to clean house in GG18

[skoatz]

2 hours ago, Kogan Style said:

Lynch will continue to clean house in GG18

Agreed.  I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it just amazes me how consistently strong Jakob Lynch has been through all of the GG versions.  At least as TT.  My Lynch crews start off with Lynch, Hungering Darkness, and Sensei Yu.  Everything else is just gravy.  I can take anything I want after that and Lynch is still very strong regardless of what I choose.  Lynch is much more flexible than I first thought when I started playing Malifaux.

It makes me wonder why I don't see him across the table as much.

[DonCheadle]

Teach me your Lynch ways Master, I've been doing nothing but failing miserably with him so far. 

[Tokapondora]

Lynch has always been my favourite master by a mile. I know Shen and McCabe are more versatile and yada yada but Lynch is just so darn fun. The key to Lynch is... kill things. That generally does the trick. For me he's always felt as just behind Shen and McCabe on the powercurve since book 2, and while the last three waves haven't given him anything particularly insane, they have given him more options (which is always nice). Much like Shen and McCabe he simply makes any crew stronger - Lynch somewhat more uniquely compared to S&M - which leaves you with TT's hugely versatile batch of generic options doing their thing but with a bigger and better hand. And of course his personal toys.

[DonCheadle]

Uh.. he did get Gywn, and from my experience she's pretty insane enough.

 My main issue with him is that he's just so damn fragile - coupled with his low range and mobility, I can't really make use of him without putting him in danger. I'm getting better at it, but he just folds to proper assault of any sort. 

[rober695]

28 minutes ago, DonCheadle said:

Uh.. he did get Gywn, and from my experience she's pretty insane enough.

 My main issue with him is that he's just so damn fragile - coupled with his low range and mobility, I can't really make use of him without putting him in danger. I'm getting better at it, but he just folds to proper assault of any sort. 

Do you know an approximate release of her model? I can see her being great with him. But also in a Tag team when coupled with a couple of illuminated.

[DonCheadle]

No idea. Since I don't love the model I've been using Mrs. Bellerose as a stand-in so far, and will probably convert something up to have a proper dedicated figure.

She really just does everything you could wish for - considerably tanky (boy I wish Lynch had her unique passive), gets you free cards, hands out brilliance all while being reasonably costed.

[Tokapondora]

Gwyneth is good but doesn't overshadow his other options, and that's what he got in her and a few other wave 4/5 models; options. She makes heavy Brilliance a whole lot more appealing, but that's far from the only way to play Lynch and generally more limiting than I'd like my crew to be.

As for how to use Lynch, he's 70% cardbot, which speaks for itself, and 30% finisher. You want to use him and Yu's pushes to get him to a place where he can pick off any leftovers his killy crew hasn't gotten to yet - be it clearing those last few wounds off a couple models or simply pick off a model or two that they haven't gotten to yet. And though he's best reserved for last there are naturally moments where a surprise first or so activation can completely ruin a plan, at which point Yu has the shenanigans to get him out of there safely instead.

You should essentially be seeing his presence as the second line that focuses fire on whatever breaks through your first wave, nuking cleaning up after them if your opponent didn't quite make it through. And opposite to that you have Huggy who loves to frontline that first wave diving straight in, tying up any models and blocking off paths that might actually get to Lynch and generally being a big enough AP sink that you should be able to keep Lynch safe enough with the help of the rest of your crew and godly hands.

[MCOLL81]

41 minutes ago, rober695 said:

Do you know an approximate release of her model? I can see her being great with him. But also in a Tag team when coupled with a couple of illuminated.

Someone had posted on AWP (Facebook group) a list of pre-orders and Gwyneth was listed as April. I do not know the original source of the information.

[whodares]

1 hour ago, DonCheadle said:

Uh.. he did get Gywn, and from my experience she's pretty insane enough.

 My main issue with him is that he's just so damn fragile - coupled with his low range and mobility, I can't really make use of him without putting him in danger. I'm getting better at it, but he just folds to proper assault of any sort. 

Get a Beckoner in your crew and just Lure models out of place. I used to have thesame problem and a Beckoner almost completely fixed that for me. She allows you to keep Lynch more in the back while still reliably blowing up a model per Turn.

 

I'm hoping to finish my next part of the Tactica by Christmas and after that I'll be writing the part about strategy and tactics (that I know) to be usuable with Lynch. Perhaps that would help you find a playstyle that suits you.

 

On Gwyneth: I like her model and the tarpittyness she brings, but I'm not really certain on what to sacrifice for her. I mostly run Lynch extremely offensive, as in every model except for the Beckoner is a killing powerhouse. Lynch, Huggy, Yasunori and an Illuminated make for a scary list and you still have stones left for other utility such as a Beckoner.

 

On Yu: I used to play him with the Huggy Missile tactic, but I've stopped doing that with the Wave 5 upgrade Cheating Bastard. It's not that the tactic has grown weaker, it's more that Cheating Bastard brings in a scheme marker dimension to Lynch that makes schemes like Dig Their Graves easy to complete.

 

But seriously, just play Beckoner with him. I play him more to the Neverborn style and it has been working splendid so far.

[Kogan Style]

14 hours ago, DonCheadle said:

Teach me your Lynch ways Master, I've been doing nothing but failing miserably with him so far. 

1. Don't be trapped into thinking that because you took Woke up with a Hand you should always activate Lynch last. Lynch can mulligan rubbish cards to set up a damage dealer for later in the turn.
2. When deciding on Lynch for strategy consider whether you need Lynch to survive the game and whether Missile Huggy is appropriate. This will help you choose between Cheating  Bastard (Lynch/Huggy Survival) and Rising Sun (Missile Huggy for days). My playstyle has always fallen between the two as I find the Terracotta Warrior to add less value than a charm warder (see below) so I choose not to play Endless Hunger/Rising Sun swapsies
3. Decide whether you think you will a lot of aces in turn. This will come from Recalled training, inbuilt  etc... if your crew has more than a few of these upgrades/abilities then it might be worth taking Wanna see a Trick. Being able to drop 8 points of damage on a Brillianced target within 6" just because you happen to collect aces makes for a great way to collect the opponents tears (and tears make the best mixer for Winners Whiskey). There is upgrade slot competition so its not an auto-include and you can get by with just 1 ace for almost all the discard tricks you will pull (Emissary, TT Bros, Lazarus, Defensive Stance etc...)
4. Keep Lynch back, he is fragile as you have noticed. Wade in with the true beatsticks and then clean up with Lynch, making sure the opponents toys are not on the board for the next turn. He is very much the second wave hitter and Walk 4" only emphasizes that.

14 hours ago, DonCheadle said:

My main issue with him is that he's just so damn fragile - coupled with his low range and mobility, I can't really make use of him without putting him in danger. I'm getting better at it, but he just folds to proper assault of any sort. 

Lynch Protection methods 

1. Misdrection. This is the upgrade that competes with Wanna see a trick for me. Do I need to keep Lynch in play for as long as possible? Then I slap this upgrade on, along with Cheating Bastard. I then usually hire a good wound soak, Lazarus usually. His Armour+2, Heal for a zero and shooting ability (discard a card for Auto-fire mmmm.... Aces) puts him ahead of Izamu for me. He can babysit Lynch and still be effective. Cheating Bastard gives that situational heal, but more importantly forces the opponent to cheat first. If  they do, they want to hurt Lynch badly and you can play around it. If you can beat their final duel total, you cheat in to win and cause them 2 damage. If you can't beat the duel total, you throw in a Mask and pass the damage off to Lazarus or preferably one of their models  so they have to discard another 2 cards if they do want to hit Lynch. 
2. Charm Warders. Throwing Disguised on Lynch (and Huggy if you take 2) or the reverse manipulative again adds to the resource cost of attacking Lynch. These guys force the Terracotta Warriors out of my Lynch lists and sometimes even the TT Bros. They give out  flips to activated models to add to the defenses of Lynch, Huggy and others. I find them to be a great choice at 5ss
3. Mr Tannen. Cheating Bastard combined with this guy's cooler ability attacks the opponent's hand in a horrible way. Give him smoke grenades to ensure the enemy has to come close (or focus and risk having to cheat the manipulative flip to ensure it gets through). Keep him close to Huggy or Lynch and cause the opponent headaches as they work out just how much of the control hand they have to give up to get that attack in.
4. Low River Monks. Heals and removes conditions from Lynch. But think about where Huggy is going to be before giving him Peaceful Waters as the second upgrade as Huggy may not be on the board (Rising Sun missile) or too far away (spreading the cheat last bubble) to enable the monks to heal effectively.

Lynch's weakness is that he is a fragile piece, and sometimes you have to gamble with him to get the most out of him in a turn and accept the likely loss that make come from it.

The change in the Frame for Murder style scheme from on/before Turn 3 to on or after turn 4 boosts Lynch because it opens up the killing potential early game. Your opponent might not want to give up on getting 3 VP when Huggy and Lynch come in like wrecking balls on turn 1 & 2. Use that to play with more freedom in taking toys off the table. 

Huggy can accomplish Hold up pretty well with 3" engagement range, and Cheating Bastard allows for a cheeky scheme marker to be placed to score Trap (which admittedly, is a pretty difficult scheme to score outside of Yu Mighty Gust trick) Thanks to @Dogmantra for pointing this one out. 

Lynch is vulnerable to Eliminate, but he can also accomplish it with ease so don't be afraid to go for it!  

 

 

[DonCheadle]

@Kogan Style that's some really sound advice.

 

I've actually stopped taking Wuwah because I like the added flexibility of activiating Lynch whenever (CB benefits a ton from that). It's a shame that the best Lynch Strat is (will be) tied to the worst Lynch scheme since he had a great gg18 place before. 

 

I usually like taking a Machine Gun Samurai in my crews, so Trick is definitely in the bones. If I may ask, what's your take on the summoning upgrade? I've been meaning to try that one out but swapped it out for Misdirection last game since She'd blood made easy to kill models a liability. 

 

Definitely gonna try a charm wader, those guys seem amazing. 

[Kogan Style]

I have only used Burn out once, with Rising Sun and Woke up as the other two upgrades on Lynch. Over the course of that game I created two Depleted through Lynch nuking things. My opponent was tilted having his model die and replaced with two of mine (Huggy and the depleted)  but I never summoned one from Huggy kills because I didn't want to burn the cards at that stage of the turn, whereas later in the turn with Lynch I felt more comfortable ditching cards and aces I'd collected. 

I am keeping it strictly casual until I play with it more but if a killy interference or Recon appeared in a tournament enviroment then I have promised myself I will give Burn out another go over my usual picks. 

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Kogan Style said:

I have only used Burn out once, with Rising Sun and Woke up as the other two upgrades on Lynch. Over the course of that game I created two Depleted through Lynch nuking things. My opponent was tilted having his model die and replaced with two of mine (Huggy and the depleted)  but I never summoned one from Huggy kills because I didn't want to burn the cards at that stage of the turn, whereas later in the turn with Lynch I felt more comfortable ditching cards and aces I'd collected. 

I am keeping it strictly casual until I play with it more but if a killy interference or Recon appeared in a tournament enviroment then I have promised myself I will give Burn out another go over my usual picks. 

Why not just discard aces then? Even at 3 wds that's 2 AP that summoned depleted is going to eat up to be removed.

[Kogan Style]

2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Why not just discard aces then? Even at 3 wds that's 2 AP that summoned depleted is going to eat up to be removed.

Because I didn't have them at the time when Huggy was killing.