RedHood Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 $140+ for rule prices? you've just made that up. The TOS hardcover rulebook is $60 MSRP which isn't too far off what the GW rulebooks used to cost. I'm not trying to troll people can make their own minds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, RedHood said: $140+ for rule prices? you've just made that up. Yeah, about that. $60 hardcover is about on par with Malifaux too, we don't have a hardcover Malifaux book but the big rulebook there is $40 softcover and hardcover always costs more to make. And again, rules are online for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Don't get confused by GW's massive "Australia tax" - all their prices are sky-high here, and every other game looks cheap in comparison. The 40K rules are $85 US. Still more expensive than TOS, but not $140 either. Also, let's not get caught up in an extended argument over whether TOS presents sufficient value (I've seen several of these already). People can make that judgement themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMK Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 23 minutes ago, RedHood said: $140+ for rule prices? you've just made that up. The TOS hardcover rulebook is $60 MSRP which isn't too far off what the GW rulebooks used to cost. I'm not trying to troll people can make their own minds up. $85 just for the main 40k rulebook. Plus codexes, dataslates, and additional rulebooks (e.g. death from the skies). I'd say $140 was being generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akai Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Austrailians do get some obnoxious pricing for GW products (the GW link is for Australia). Not the same price in other regions and I'm not sure how Wyrd products are priced for their Australian consumers. I think all tabletop war games are generally expensive :D. You will pay for it if you like the game and aesthetics. In my opinion, tabletop war games is not something I recommend people to just casually try out the hobby since there is a huge investment of money and time. The Other Side attempts to offset some of the time investment through pre-assembled miniatures (there is an audience that prefers that) and having each allegiance starter box ready to play in 1 commander games. A potential customer sees a demo from retailer or people playing the game at their local store, they can immediately buy an allegiance box and they are ready to play on the same day with it (instead of spending hours to assemble them and waiting for the next week to play at LGS). It seems most of the playtesting have been catered to 1 or 2 commander games for both sides. You don't need to purchase anything more after that unless you wish to expand to 2 commander games or increase options to what you can switch in and out for a game (in that sense it is more similar to Malifaux and other skirmish size games, expensive if you want more options but reasonable if you stick to just the same models). I am happy with the Update asI was already convinced in getting the game and it gives me more stuff if more SGs are reached! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavian and Deathgrip Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I honestly find that the recent update was a good thing, Wyrd got rid of a lot of the things I was a bit uncomfortable with with the kickstarter. Yes it is still basically a store, but everything is already unlocked. It does feel a bit bittersweet however, it feels like wyrd had incredibly high expectations for their kickstarter that didn't pan out. I like wyrd, as much as I have been critical of this kickstarter I still wish them the best. I criticize because I care, and because unlike in so many other forums I feel like I can criticize and be heard rather than be drowned out by irrational posters who feel like they drag down the argument with association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I love Wyrd Malifaux probably accounts for 70% of my tabletop gaming purchases these days. I've been critical of the KS mainly because I really expected something better I'm sorry if that may come across as 'negative' but at the same time I think the more opinions they hear on this the better for them it is in the long run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 2 hours ago, RedHood said: I love Wyrd Malifaux probably accounts for 70% of my tabletop gaming purchases these days. I've been critical of the KS mainly because I really expected something better I'm sorry if that may come across as 'negative' but at the same time I think the more opinions they hear on this the better for them it is in the long run. Genuinely curious here, what do you mean by expected something better? Like a better deal, different game, different materials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Mainly I'm put off by the prices at retail. It'll be a hard sell to friends and local stores to get them to invest in this game because of the asking price. Can I personally recommend you spend $90 on one of the Titans? Not really. There in lies the problem it's one of those games people will go 'yeah looks alright but its too expensive'. There's a number of design choices I'm not thrilled about either, firstly pre-assembled minatures and there's certainly question marks about PVC miniatures at this price point. What I would say is I'm not a warmahordes fan for many similar reasons (high prices so so quality miniatures) so when I heard Wyrd were doing a wargame on this scale I wasn't really expecting them to take a similar route to what Privateer Press have with pricing and manufacturing choices. We hopefully will all be sat here in a couple of years time and this game will have proven to be a success at retail it's just not what I was expecting really. Perhaps it is my expectations that are wrong! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, RedHood said: Mainly I'm put off by the prices at retail. It'll be a hard sell to friends and local stores to get them to invest in this game because of the asking price. Can I personally recommend you spend $90 on one of the Titans? Not really. There in lies the problem it's one of those games people will go 'yeah looks alright but its too expensive'. There's a number of design choices I'm not thrilled about either, firstly pre-assembled minatures and there's certainly question marks about PVC miniatures at this price point. $90 on a titan, compared to $80 to $110 for one of the Privateer Press 120mm based battle engines, gargantuan or colossal models. Or whatever it is that Games Workshop charges these days... As far as pre-assembly goes, I heard a really interesting interview with the Steamforged Games people, the folks making Guild Ball. (D6 Generation, episode 202, I think it was. They have a really interesting interview about why they're switching from resin and metal figures to pre-assembled PVC plastic.) They recently released a pre-assembled PVC plastic starter set, and in the interview they were discussing how they were getting the best price quotes and figure quality in the pre-assembled option. It's a different company probably dealing with a different factory, but the economic decisions seem like they're going to be similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 There's quite a lot of people that were unhappy with Steamforged for dropping resin. I have 4 teams for Guild Ball most of my purchases were the resin miniatures. The PVC miniatures they released look okay but they are nowhere near the quality of the resin mini's. Again I don't neccessarily mind PVC minis if the price is reflective of the inferior material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsey Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 On 1/3/2017 at 9:54 PM, Cinnamon Bear said: In the latest chronicles they threw out a tease that there was a Gremlin board game being developed. I hope that wasn't one of the casualties. Don't worry this project is as healthy as a ....four legged thing of evil that I will not speak of here. Nothing could slow down the momentum of a project with that much ridiculousness and fun. I am actually looking for playtesters as we go into the final design stage so if anyone is curious and thinks they could get a regular group together for testing, email me at lindsey@wyrd-games.net 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfrench Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I do have to say that I for one am excited about the pre-assembled minis. Having hit my 30's and having a small minon of my own (18 months old) my time for gaming, much less hobbying, has been substantially reduced. I'm excited about the fact that I can just open the package and start playing! I think this will be a big selling point for new comers to the hobby too as you can literally give them a 15-30 minute demo then they can buy a faction box crack it open and play a full game with you. No assembly required they can slowly work into the hobby aspect, but can immediately enjoy the game. Regarding the quality of PVC vs resin vs metal I do have to say it matters at 12 inches when you're holding the miniature in your hand, but once you put it on the table and at best you're 3 feet away, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference. Granted I could be wrong, but I'm excited about this on all fronts. I can also tell you that I've been having a blast play testing it, so much so that I'm having trouble picking what allegiances I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberlost Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I like the pre-assembled minis. My hands shake a bit, so one less thing I have to deal with there... Plus less time between purchase and being able to play is good. I may have to back off from the KS, sadly. An opportunity to pick up a piece of equipment I've been looking for at a good price has come up, so priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akai Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 hours ago, RedHood said: Again I don't neccessarily mind PVC minis if the price is reflective of the inferior material. Are there other table top war game miniatures made of PVC that is reflective of the price you consider to be appropriate? I look at the pricing of The Other Side and they don't seem to be far off. On average per miniature, The Other Side "plastic" miniatures are cheaper in price than the "plastic" Malifaux models. In the quote you were making a comparison of PVC being inferior to Resin. For models to be used as gaming pieces, I value more durability over greater level of crisp details. In that regard, resin is the inferior material. In a The Other Side update : "PVC is a type of plastic, but it doesn't come only one way. PVC is actually a very large spectrum of plastic, and the quality of PVC depends greatly on where you are on that spectrum. Many of you probably have experience with some of the cheap PVC, and we're sure some of you have been very happy with some PVC in the past." That is of course, Wyrd's own spiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejavu Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I feel people are reacting to the use of PVC without having a full consideration of all the factors in material selection. I think the biggest factor that might’ve pushed wyrd towards PVC isn't cost, I think it's the increased geometric flexibility they would be able to achieve in the molds, this would cut down on the number of pieces and help allow for preassembled miniatures to be feasible. I know I've seen people become quite frustrated assembling wyrd miniatures, so I definitely feel that's a barrier to entry into the hobby. That might not be something that affects some of the people posting here but surely a bigger community from lowered entry barriers is something that could be positive. Also PVC is only one part of the material, there's a whole range of additives that could be used to affect its properties. Then there's also the tooling used for the molds, not to mention you can tweak your sculpts to get the most out of your selection. Because of all that I don't think it's fair to just assume that other manufacturers PVC models will be reflective are there's just too many variables involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Akai said: Are there other table top war game miniatures made of PVC that is reflective of the price you consider to be appropriate? I look at the pricing of The Other Side and they don't seem to be far off. On average per miniature, The Other Side "plastic" miniatures are cheaper in price than the "plastic" Malifaux models. In the quote you were making a comparison of PVC being inferior to Resin. For models to be used as gaming pieces, I value more durability over greater level of crisp details. In that regard, resin is the inferior material. In a The Other Side update : "PVC is a type of plastic, but it doesn't come only one way. PVC is actually a very large spectrum of plastic, and the quality of PVC depends greatly on where you are on that spectrum. Many of you probably have experience with some of the cheap PVC, and we're sure some of you have been very happy with some PVC in the past." That is of course, Wyrd's own spiel HIPS plastic > Resin > PVC/Metal Miniatures. That's usually how I look at miniature materials. In some cases of course a resin miniature can allow for the greatest level of detail but like you say it has a slight durability issue that you may not want in a game where a lot of miniatures are involved. Put it this way if the TOS mini's were HIPS plastic and not assembled I bet there would be more interest than there is currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 9 minutes ago, RedHood said: HIPS plastic > Resin > PVC/Metal Miniatures. That's usually how I look at miniature materials. Now you've pointed out part of what's wrong with you--you don't like metal miniatures. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, solkan said: Now you've pointed out part of what's wrong with you--you don't like metal miniatures. Metal miniatures should have been left in the 90's! Miscast areas, easy to break, paint chipping off. I'm just a miniatures snob now I think about it! Let us see some high res images of final production TOS miniatures thats what I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberlost Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Emberlost said: I may have to back off from the KS, sadly. An opportunity to pick up a piece of equipment I've been looking for at a good price has come up, so priorities. I feel I should clarify this a bit - if I do ditch the KS, it's because I'm buying my daughter a telescope. Ah, the joys of fatherhood. I'm not bailing on you guys without a good reason, honest! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHood Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 We rarely have a clear sky where I live I'd love to be able to use a telescope but unless I plan on spying on my neighbours there's little point at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberlost Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, RedHood said: We rarely have a clear sky where I live I'd love to be able to use a telescope but unless I plan on spying on my neighbours there's little point at the moment. One of my instructors in college actually took the job here even though it was at a lower salary because we have so many clear nights. He was freaking awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Is there any info on the tournament rules, namely if painting will be obligatory? Preassembled is cool, but since we're going the "easy" way maybe it will be legal to play unpainted armies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 It will likely be legal to play unpainted, but I can't say that for sure yet. If we do allow unpainted, there will likely be painting prizes as part of it, to encourage people to do so anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMK Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Ultimately it'll be up to TOs to determine how they want to run a tourney. Personally I hate playing unpainted grey armies. Takes something away from the game for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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