New Lucius tactica

[EnternalVoid]

Seeing Grimwell mentioned above did make me think of an interesting thing, Lucius can made him focus before he activates so he can Nimble forward and go for the big damage with his 2 AP melee attack with the focus.  Another use wtih Grimwell if you have the cards to spare you can have Grimwell use his 1 AP action to move another model or even himself while saving his Nimble and AP for his activation.

[JDAntoine]

If some really likes Killjoy, then sure add him to the mix aswell, no need for excuses if you like the model. I do however think that Nellie offers something more specifically for Mercs like him but there is nothing stopping anyone from trying it with Lucius either.

I think we had several topics regarding Lucius and also saw severl decent plans then, decent plans that now become great because Lucius has most certainly recieved the upgrades we where all looking for. Since Ludvig seems to have a love for him, it's fair to just remind us of what has been discussed before:
 

What has been mentioned there by @Hagisman is something I think can still apply to date. A mix of Minions should do the trick and I think either the choice for Guardsmen or Mimics is the propper way to go with him. 

Some crew sketches 
- Lucius (SL, SA), Francisco Ortega (WI, HDA), Mr. Graves, Witchling Thrall, Guild Austringer, Death Marshal, Changeling, Changeling, +4

- Lucius (SL, SA, L), Francisco Ortega (WI, HDA), Mr. Graves, Doppleganger (ADttG), Death Marshal, Guild Austringer, Changeling, Changeling, +4

- Lucius (SA, L), Francisco Ortega (WI, HDA), Captain Dashel (AH), The Scribe, Death Marshal, Guild Austringer, Guild Austringer, Guild Guard, Guild Guard, +4

Plans
As is I think going the more offensive route with Lucius has become a whole lot more viable than before for several reasons, amongst which the change to:
1. Devil's Deal, to make sure Lucius doesn't have to die fast. 
2.  added to Df, making Suprisingly Loyal suprisingly good. SL making me want to include Mr. Graves (beater) and Changelings (utility scheme runners). 
3. MASSIVE improvement to Elite Training, makes me want to have at least one Death Marshal.
4. MASSIVE improvement to Issue Command, makes me want to have at least one Austringer. 

The result of the above changes make me believe that Mr. Graves is the perfect bodyguard for him which we cannot find in the same way in the Guild. Obviously Francisco can do a wonderful job in keeping Lucius alive but as we probably all know, there is a big difference between Frank and Graves. Adding both however should allow us to get some real good use out of Legalese. 
Adding Mr. Graves requires Suprisingly Loyal but due to the change to Lucius' Df trigger I think it's now always worth it. What it also does is give us some amazing acces to (for Lucius) amazing scheme runners in the form of Changelings. A tactic allready applied by many Lucius Neverborn players.
Due to the change of Elite Training and Issue Command I think we'd be cutting ourself if we didn't include at least one Austringer and one Death Marshal. Despite my critique on the change to the DM I almost certainly want to include him here thanks to Elite Training. 

I believe Lucius' way to victory for 2017 lies in making all his buffs relevant, to have something extremely potent. As a result I'll likely mix sketch 1 and 2 into each other to create a real potent 'Nellie-like' list but instead of relying on a mix of Guild and Mercs it will rely on a mix of Guild and Mimics.

[DoctorWhat]

I've only played two games with the new Lucius so far, but Phiona Gage has been a star.

I run her with the generic Journalist upgrade, Transparency, (she already has the tome built in), so she can put out scheme markers after succeeding. Then go ahead and use What Lackeys Are For to slingshot any other model (Francisco is always great, but even the Executioner and Peacekeeper are finding some new life with me here).

It overlaps a bit with how I play Nellie, but being able to Double Walk with Lucius then force an Enfretate a Mi! or a Look Out! is wonderful.

Still not quite sold on the Emissary with him (it's a recent pickup and I'm used to the overloaded Carrion Emissary), but there's a lot of potential.

Next I'm going to try walking Lucius, targetting himself to take another, targetting the Emissary to scoop up Phiona, then charging an activated model if I can. Then when it's convenient, activate the emissary, walk/charge/Look Out! to get some bonus Phiona hits in before unburying her and going to town. It doesn't benefit from Elite Training, but it hasn't really impacted being able to drop 3 ML 6 min 3 beasts off on turn 2.

For added fun, take Guild Hounds/Field Reporters and wait your opponent out.

[JDAntoine]

@DoctorWhat Will certainly try Phiona over Frank as soon as I have acces to her. Other than that I do believe Changelings are a better choice for Lucius as either Guild Hounds or Field Reporters, by large because of the utility you can get out of them. 

For certain Guild Hounds are solid but I feel they are much better with McCabe and Field Reporters are also wonderful choices but I feel this applies much more for general Guild Masters. If you have the acces to Changelings it feels like your robbing yourself if you are not using them.

As is I also feel that the Mimic side is the stronger out of the two for Guild. Thanks to the changes I feel the 'balance' of Suprisingly Loyal has been seriously restored since the Changeling release.

[Ludvig]

Thanks for reminding about old threads. I have the memory of a goldfish. 

Double trappers and double austringers could also be a thing on some tables. Might not be a thing that gets you a lot of friends though. It's 26ss but the trappers can start in a place where they can probably get a few schemes done turn 2 thanks to pushes from Lucius and/or austringers. I'd be tempted to add Diestro-Francisco bringing it up to 40ss. Probably the scribe and double reporters after that to flesh out on activations and let you push those tasteless cavemen trying to hit you and let you shoot and Scheme  Not sure how good it would be but it would probably be annoying  

[JDAntoine]

Double ranged strategies are certainly interesting to consider but I do believe that both Sonnia and Perdita archieve a better job at that as Lucius. The prime reason for that would be Lucius' own mobility versus that of Perdita and Sonnia's blast effectiveness versus that of Guild Trappers. A coure of double Austringers is allways excellent but the denial abilities Lucius brings are the abilities I cannot find in either Nellie, Hoffman or McCabe who otherwise serve similar Minion buffing Master roles.

The idea of running a Death Marshal, Austringer and Witchling Thrall with two Changelings excites me a lot because it does not seem to include any significant weakness. We have a strong Rg plan, strong Ca plan and Ml plan at that point which with a foreward Lucius can be boosted rather well and Legalese becomes very strong with a forward Lucius  

Elite Training Death Marshal Pine Boxes is something you'd expect from Lady Justice but it seems Lucius is doing that way better  

[Ludvig]

What does legalese do in this scenario? Very few schemes score at the end of the game now.

I do suppose that in a mirror match Lucius might buff his opponent through legalese

[JDAntoine]

22 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

What does legalese do in this scenario? Very few schemes score at the end of the game now.

Point well taken, it depends on what set of rules you use. For casual games my local meta still uses the regular M2E. For tournament variants I do not think Legalese is that interesting either. Suprisingly Loyal and Secret Assets would be my picks for the latter, pretty much always. 

[DoctorWhat]

1 hour ago, JDAntoine said:

Point well taken, it depends on what set of rules you use. For casual games my local meta still uses the regular M2E. For tournament variants I do not think Legalese is that interesting either. Suprisingly Loyal and Secret Assets would be my picks for the latter, pretty much always. 

While the scheme part is less relevant due to it just being Covert Breakthrough and Search the Ruins, Loop Holes is still quite good for ignoring most of the annoying things in Malifaux. Getting around Anna Lovelace, Ashes and Dust's pulses, Clockwork Traps, Brewmaster, Ironsides, and plenty more is quite nice for a stone.

[Ludvig]

Soo. That new damage upgrade (Debt to the guild I think?)

Are there any fun tricks Lucius could do that no one else can? Models with extra ap naturally seem better with it. The doppleganger could trigger it if you know you will mimic with  a tome to get an extra attack and of course the + flips to every attack. Candy maybe? Not a fan of her low stats but she does have extra ap.

Apart from that there aren't any special tricks? The usual Bishop or Francisco flurry seems decent but Nellie can do that a lot better. Ryle could potentially attack a lot but he won't be fast or have automatic extra attacks like he could with Hoffman.

My old fave Samael could rapid fire and hope for some ricochets perhaps, the extra damage would apply to those? (I'm probably not touching burning Lucius for a long while no matter what but it's good to kerp options.in you back pocket)

[trikk]

Yes. Ricochet would do +1.

There's a fun trick with Terracota where you use A Debt to the Guild and swap it to Vengence Bullet. Next turn you can use Vengence Bullet or swap back to A Debt

[Ludvig]

27 minutes ago, trikk said:

Yes. Ricochet would do +1.

There's a fun trick with Terracota where you use A Debt to the Guild and swap it to Vengence Bullet. Next turn you can use Vengence Bullet or swap back to A Debt

That does seem useful. Don't have the card, could you help me out: Is it only attack actions that get boosted or all damage? And duration end of turn or activation?

[trikk]

Attack Actions that deal damage.

[Ludvig]

3 minutes ago, trikk said:

Attack Actions that deal damage.

I need to assemble Hoffman. Ryle with this and the auto rams upgrade simply must be fun for everyone involved, especially if facing bayou gremlin spam or something similar  

[4thstringer]

On 12/28/2016 at 8:05 AM, DoctorWhat said:

I've only played two games with the new Lucius so far, but Phiona Gage has been a star.

I run her with the generic Journalist upgrade, Transparency, (she already has the tome built in), so she can put out scheme markers after succeeding. Then go ahead and use What Lackeys Are For to slingshot any other model (Francisco is always great, but even the Executioner and Peacekeeper are finding some new life with me here).

It overlaps a bit with how I play Nellie, but being able to Double Walk with Lucius then force an Enfretate a Mi! or a Look Out! is wonderful.

Still not quite sold on the Emissary with him (it's a recent pickup and I'm used to the overloaded Carrion Emissary), but there's a lot of potential.

Next I'm going to try walking Lucius, targetting himself to take another, targetting the Emissary to scoop up Phiona, then charging an activated model if I can. Then when it's convenient, activate the emissary, walk/charge/Look Out! to get some bonus Phiona hits in before unburying her and going to town. It doesn't benefit from Elite Training, but it hasn't really impacted being able to drop 3 ML 6 min 3 beasts off on turn 2.

For added fun, take Guild Hounds/Field Reporters and wait your opponent out.

Are the cards out yet?  I've been holding off until we see the new triggers. 

[DoctorWhat]

@4thstringer What do you mean? People have had access to at least the Ripples of Fate book for awhile.

[4thstringer]

 

1 hour ago, DoctorWhat said:

@4thstringer What do you mean? People have had access to at least the Ripples of Fate book for awhile.

It mentions the new lucius.  We should be getting errata lucius,  austringer, scribe and guardian cards. 

EDIT: never mind I'm a moron. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by 4thstringer

[JDAntoine]

35 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

It mentions the new lucius.  We should be getting errata lucius,  austringer, scribe and guardian cards. 

EDIT: never mind I'm a moron. 

Problem solved, for future reference this link comes in handy:

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=13890 

• Lucius: The Austringers sent Lucius a fruit basket with a nice card, and now he doesn't hate them as much. Gained +Mask to Defense (Re: Surprisingly Loyal upgrade). Devil's Deal reduced to 2 damage. Elite Training works on Melee attack and Horror flips of Minions, Mimics, and Guardsmen. Commanding Presence works on all friendly models, range reduced to 12”, TN dropped. Governor's Authority lasts until this model's next Activation. Guild Intelligence made a (0), lost its TN, and now works with all friendly models. TN of Issue Command lowered, Triggers changed around. 
• The Scribe: Became a Minion. Insignificant changed to The Secretary's Eyes and Ears. Butler now affects all friendly models. Governor's Authority lasts until this model's next Activation. Removed Flurry, gained "Do You Have An Appointment?" Action.

[4thstringer]

Thanks.   I hadn't seen the link at the bottom of the announcement so the new triggers abd the scribes new ability were mysteries to me.   I'm super impressed with the scribe, though his new card leaves him a peon.

[Myyrä]

Has none of you really noticed that Malifaux Child + Doppelganger is back on the table? Three issue commands at the same target per turn! Not that that is always or even often good use for Doppelganger AP, but it's an option especially on the early turns if you are targeting some ranged model while keeping her safe. As much as the Scribe was buffed, Malifaux Child will once again be my go-to totem for Lucius.

[Gnomezilla]

7 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I need to assemble Hoffman. Ryle with this and the auto rams upgrade simply must be fun for everyone involved, especially if facing bayou gremlin spam or something similar  

Indebted, fast Ml7 swarm anyone? 

But back on topic, Lucius is the only one who can cancel incoming damage with the terracotta warrior malarkey, like a badge of office but better. As before, I want to see whether this means multiple turns of Papa Loco suicide missile with death marshal recruiter escort. Or skip the recruiter and just shield your beater of choice.

Tangential to terracottas, I don't know whether this Lucius will burn through his deck, though he has a positive flip aura now that's only for outgoing attacks and limited by AP, and the AP boost he gives now is baked into pushes which won't flip cards. I find it's the defenders' stats positive flips that really churn through cards.

[Myyrä]

8 hours ago, trikk said:

Yes. Ricochet would do +1.

There's a fun trick with Terracota where you use A Debt to the Guild and swap it to Vengence Bullet. Next turn you can use Vengence Bullet or swap back to A Debt

Changing back to Debt doesn't really work, because the ability Debt gives is only usable once per game. I don't see losing it and getting it back changing that in any meaningful way. (Also if it did, you could just swap Debt for Debt and just use it every turn.)

[trikk]

You have to swap for a different upgrade.

Even without it swpping Debt to Vengence bullet might cause serious damage

[Ludvig]

Quick tournament report:

 

Played Lucius in three games in a mini tournament today.

 

First match was against Seamus in Extraction. I played a mimic heavy list with Dopple, Graves, Tannen, Trapper, Austringer, Scribe and a Guardian. I won 7 - 3. My opponent failed to get into the scoring area early since he tried Belle-ing my minions out for hunting party. I swapped them back with Lucius and shielded with enforcers. I'd say he should probably have been able to score some strat points by just running the belles in turn 1 and done HP later. Had this game run it's full course tables would have turned badly for me. None of us had played in a while so we only made it to turn 3 at which point I had lost half my crew and he hadn't lost anyone but the Valedictorian as well as gained some belles from summons.

 

Match 2 was Squatters rights against a player who usually beats me but was trying a funky Reva build with only four or five models on the table from the start and Bete + Killjoy popping out. I used a guardsman heavy list with Dashel and some shooters. I blocked off the accessible squat markers in the center with traps from deployment and won 6 - 1. A lot of that was the traps and the fact that Bete is a really bad idea with Marked for death in the pool. Had he swapped her for a couple of scheme runners it would have been a very different game.

 

Third and final match was against Gremlin Zoraida in headhunter. A real nailbiter and ended 8 - 6 to the witch. She had Francois, Pere, Trixie and Burt, an Iron skeeter and a few chaff gremlins. I had a mixed bag with a Dopple and Beckoner trying to pull stuff in for the rest of my crew to jump on but Zoraida and Trixie obeyid it back. It was a really tense game with my Guardian being the MVP for holding 3 or 4 heads within his engagement. I messed up badly by allowing him to take Show of force unopposed and missing out on exhaust on turn 2 as well as some minor mistakes. This is a player who regularly beats me so I felt like I did ok.

[4thstringer]

So what did you think of newcius?  Did he feel more playable and useful?