New Lucius tactica

[Ludvig]

Thought I'd float some ideas and and questions to see if we can get a discussion going.

I think Dashel just got a lot more viable with the bonuses to his attacks and horror. I could see Dashel and double wardens for turf war and the like. I will also ty to make the mimics work for.him (but thst might be better for the neverborn side).

Now that austringers can focus into melee and can be targeted by Lucius I also feel that the gunline approach (possibly with traps as tarpits) got a boost.

Will you be more likely to take the mimic enforcers in guild? I like the idea of Graves and a doppegänger messing people up with plus flips. Not sure if Tannen would be worth it to go with Graves and make cheating more costly in that same bubble.

Will Lucius + Queeg make the scheme marker into attacks approach viable? I'm thinking it actually might with the lack of (0) actions on minions.

Would you still take Promises on Queeg to make him and Dashel go apeshit with plus flips?

Will the fact that traps now give their soulstones back if you Devils deal them make you more likely to hire them as batteries? 

 

 

 

 

[JDAntoine]

Yeah Lucius time!

Like you I'm looking very forward to give Lucius another go. I am currently uncertain if Dashal is really required as I feel that the added terrain Phiona gives helps out more to keep that backfield gunline more potent and annoying. It certainly is the route I think will end up being the most potent thanks to the removed annimosity towards Austringers  

A Graves + Phiona set up does seem like the 'field control' I'll aim for first. This might eventually change but adding some Mimics like Graves remains awesome.

Any Queeg option is also good here but I still do like Queeg the most with McCabe for obvious reasons and I think the real 'added power' here should come from gunlines and control combinations that are not as easily found with McCabe. 

The trap route seems cool but isn't what I'm aiming for first. I think the points are now well spend elsehwere because Lucius isn't forced into odd angles and restrictions in terms of list building, which previously I felt was his biggest problem because whatever you wanted to build it was out-done elsewhere (McCabe/Nellie/Hoffman). I feel this isn't the case anymore  . 

 

[trikk]

I think Tannen, Graves and Doppel +2 Thralls might be fun in Extraction. Also the funny interaction right now is that Lucius can Commanding Presence himself so he can walk 8" with 1 AP.

This can be really funny with the new Red Tape from Lucius which works until his next activation

[Ludvig]

Scaring yourself into running. Lucius must have gone a bit bonkers with all that's been happening lately  That means he always gets to focus or something too so he essentially gained an ap at the risk of a black joker. I was thinking I would leave his sniper at home for a few games but walking, focusing and shooting all for 1+0 seems like a decent deal, especially since it's cheaper to get the mandatory ram on the shot these days.

[Krellnus]

A fun thing to point out, Killjoy isn't immune to horror duels, and can now be moved around by Lucius, any way we can capitalise on this lads?

[Tris]

What`s the thing with Killjoy that everyone wants to press him into Guild lists?

First the Nellie thread and now Lucius - I would say we have enough heavy hitters at hand, don`t you?  

[Ludvig]

9 minutes ago, Krellnus said:

A fun thing to point out, Killjoy isn't immune to horror duels, and can now be moved around by Lucius, any way we can capitalise on this lads?

If you really love killjoy I suppose you could have some insurance against needing to charge your own models but I don't see it as gamechanging. Stuff is likely to die in a Lucius list so you can count on getting Killjoy out where you want him. With the new reporters you can block any charges towards your own models snyway chich seems more important.

[Krellnus]

1 minute ago, Ludvig said:

Not really since immunity means you can't succeed to do your action, you dimply don't take the horror duel.

That's what I'm saying though I'm saying Killjoy isn't immune to the duel, so Lucius can donate a potential 2 AP a turn to Killjoy (1 from the free 1 Action, 2 from the Onlsaught trigger to his melee attack).

4 minutes ago, Tris said:

What`s the thing with Killjoy that everyone wants to press him into Guild lists?

First the Nellie thread and now Lucius - I would say we have enough heavy hitters at hand, don`t you?  

Because models like Killjoy and Bishop are absolute powerhouses and the last thing anyone wants is to easily be able to give them extra AP like say Lucius or Nellie can.

[Ludvig]

6 minutes ago, Tris said:

What`s the thing with Killjoy that everyone wants to press him into Guild lists?

First the Nellie thread and now Lucius - I would say we have enough heavy hitters at hand, don`t you?  

Don't be such a killjoy  I do agree that we fill the niche of stabby death quite well already. I don't really see what killjoy would bring over our new improved executioners or the good old peacekeeper.

[Ludvig]

3 minutes ago, Krellnus said:

That's what I'm saying though I'm saying Killjoy isn't immune to the duel, so Lucius can donate a potential 2 AP a turn to Killjoy (1 from the free 1 Action, 2 from the Onlsaught trigger to his melee attack).

Had a temporary lack in reading comprehension  

[Tris]

Yeah, but you could also try to give these ap to say a peacekeeper, executioner, franc, phiona, the thralls(who pass the horror automatically) even grimmwell, all of whom are also cheaper than killjoy.

Not saying that it`s not worth it, but I honestly don`t think there is a particular reason or new combo to field killjoy here other than -I want to- (which is in itself completely legit, don`t get me wrong  )

 

Killjoy is in his heart still an Outcast, everyone else gets the same model but more expensive, so no good deal in my opinion - Ratjoy and Tara even remain the best options to get him out imho  

And I don`t like Bishop at all, but that may be a personal thing, I just find his 1" ml range quite lacking and he himself is really slow - would rather take the strongarm suit^^

[4thstringer]

I like the idea of traps with changelings making a part of the board hazardous together.   I like it more now that traps are decent devils deal targets. 

I really like graves with the terra cotta.   He was already pretty tough,  being able to avoid one big hit is a big deal. 

[Krellnus]

11 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Had a temporary lack in reading comprehension  

Happens to the best of us

What do we think of the scribe now? I think at 2 points for a +1 def aura it's pretty damn amazing, stacking Franc and Phiona with it for Def 10 is hilarious and could be good in turf war, but I think our out of faction models like Graves, and Tannen are much better off getting the +1 def themselves, and now Lucius can let Tannen block soulstone use out of activation and Graves can show a friend the door without having to spend his precious AP, which is nice, especially since he's going to be in the thick of it where you can't complain about getting +1 def for free.

 

[Tris]

5 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I like the idea of traps with changelings making a part of the board hazardous together.   I like it more now that traps are decent devils deal targets. 

I really like graves with the terra cotta.   He was already pretty tough,  being able to avoid one big hit is a big deal. 

I´ve also played with the idea of a support setup for big models with graves, changelings, doppelganger etc. but it`s not that easy, points melt away faster than I thought^^

 

 

Scribe is really cool now, especially for the 2 points, but he also falls to a stiff breeze, so you have to be very careful with your positioning - but that´s nothing new I suppose

[Krellnus]

3 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I like the idea of traps with changelings making a part of the board hazardous together.   I like it more now that traps are decent devils deal targets. 

I really like graves with the terra cotta.   He was already pretty tough,  being able to avoid one big hit is a big deal. 

My problem with Terracotta warriors is that Lucius is still pretty hard on your hand, and Terracotta warriors attack your own hand (although their ability is still amazeballs). I do think the nice thing they can do is swap out Debt once it's been used, although could you swap it for Debt (effectively using the Terracotta's 0 to refresh the ability). Regardless, swapping debt out late game (once it's been used) for something like curfew or numb is quite powerful.

[JDAntoine]

6 minutes ago, Krellnus said:

What do we think of the scribe now?

It's an certain inclusion for me unless I really want to have room for a bigger Minion. So by that example it's of the same level as Hoffman's for me, but slightly below Luna, the Printing Press and Enslaved Nephilim. 

[trikk]

11 minutes ago, Krellnus said:

My problem with Terracotta warriors is that Lucius is still pretty hard on your hand, and Terracotta warriors attack your own hand (although their ability is still amazeballs). I do think the nice thing they can do is swap out Debt once it's been used, although could you swap it for Debt (effectively using the Terracotta's 0 to refresh the ability). Regardless, swapping debt out late game (once it's been used) for something like curfew or numb is quite powerful.

You have to swap for a different upgrade AFAIR

[4thstringer]

22 minutes ago, JDAntoine said:

It's an certain inclusion for me unless I really want to have room for a bigger Minion. So by that example it's of the same level as Hoffman's for me, but slightly below Luna, the Printing Press and Enslaved Nephilim. 

I don't think ive ever used hoffmans totem.  What does it bring to the table? 

[JDAntoine]

5 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I don't think ive ever used hoffmans totem.  What does it bring to the table? 

Annoy with Mauser 9, Null Field and cheap acces to Relay Information. Worth the 2 SS for me. 

[Gnomezilla]

6 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I don't think ive ever used hoffmans totem.  What does it bring to the table? 

Not quite enough blast protection, curse that LoS requirement on a Ht1 construct...but the ability to shut off even a master's auras and pulses, oh I have had fun with that. Dampening Field, assimilate-copy the field again, snuggle mech. attendant up to master, where's your positive flip bubble now Nico? Nowhere, that's where.  Plus the usual slow/fast AP dump for less than 4SS. In truth it's probably better than the Child, but I can't help running her instead for my presence on the table.

What I find interesting with the scribe is how the devs are trying to find a power level between a peon which cannot interact and a minion which can. The range requirement is also meant to put Lucius and the scribe on the front lines which was the current direction on master design (i.e. discouraging a backfield playstyle--I notice that long range, never in harm's way Lucius is dead, but the trade was worth it) but the search for a power level is new. I like it.

[Ludvig]

2 hours ago, Krellnus said:

A fun thing to point out, Killjoy isn't immune to horror duels, and can now be moved around by Lucius, any way we can capitalise on this lads?

If you want to really abuse Killjoy I would have a look at Perdita instead of Lucius. She can obey, Abuela can Listen up young 'un and the totem can Influence him. The totem can also push him if the enemy tries to move him. That's three extra attacks that can all declare triggers each turn so I'm not sure why Lucius would open up anything new  

[Ludvig]

The scribe can companion with someone to slap red tape on an enemy. In a lot of Lucius builds you can make sure that all their eligible targets are minions or mimics so you can cause an awful lot of grief with that (especially after the wording change, you can keep someone permanently taped now). You just need to make sure their model can't ss reduce. Killjoy, Langston and other enforcers are prime targets for glove slaps. If they can soulstones reduce I guess you can see it as a really decent way to get people to chuck cards or ss to avoid a silly little 2ss model.

Cheat the initiative with your doppleganger and activate the scribe and Lucius as a chain to mess two heavy hitters up. Apart from that I would pay 2ss for the defence buff and activation more or less any day. if you don't need them just cycle him into stones for suits and you get the same result as if you didn't take him.

[Tris]

8 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

If you want to really abuse Killjoy I would have a look at Perdita instead of Lucius. She can obey, Abuela can Listen up young 'un and the totem can Influence him. The totem can also push him if the enemy tries to move him. That's three extra attacks that can all declare triggers each turn so I'm not sure why Lucius would open up anything new  

Perdita with Emissary even has auto-obey, and the emissary can bury Killjoy again for 1-2 rounds (enabling him to pop out again) and/or unbury him in base contact with any scheme marker (preferably close to the enemy  )

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, Tris said:

Perdita with Emissary even has auto-obey, and the emissary can bury Killjoy again for 1-2 rounds (enabling him to pop out again) and/or unbury him in base contact with any scheme marker (preferably close to the enemy  )

While he's buried you also get to copy the attack with the emmissary without the needing to charge your own models  

[Franchute]

Hoffman's totem might be the alternative to the death marshall for a papabox crew now 

Oh wait... I forgot about the mobile toolkit...